Hi All.

This is my first post in this respected forum. Firstly i would like to point out i am not a scientist nor do i belong to any climate body or organization. I am purely an observer.

Here are two links which in my "non expert" opinion go some way to pour cold water over the AGW theories.

But before anyone shoots me down in flames, i am one of the masses who is being directly effected by government policies, due to what i am beginning to believe is one of the biggest hoax's ever to be devised. Over to the "experts".

I apologise in advance if the following links have been posted on this site already or have been discussed before..

1) http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=881376822

2) http://www.middlebury.net/op-ed/global-warming-01.html

 

Welcome. You have to be careful with the hoax and fraud words in here. :)

Read some of the recent threads and you'll quickly realise even the experts are split on this, the only groups of people that claim not to be are careerists and unscientific.

Tread very carefully

Yes, i realise that it was a controvertial heading and words such as hoax and fraud stir up many emotive feelings.

However when peoples lives are being directly impacted upon by the worlds governments due to a "science" which is so controvertial, the ramifications for us all are immense. If the wrong decisions are made now, it could lead to either huge loss of life in the future, not to even mention the massive economic hardship the world could all suffer.

I have been openminded to all that i read and hear, but recently it has become more apparent that the science is far from settled and yet people in power are playing with our lives.

So if my thread's headlines get some people hot under the collar, i make no apologies, at the end of the day the stakes are too high !!! 

 

bradall:

Tread very carefully

I dont think i need to tread very carefully. I am not the one making the video or writing the Article. I am not the accuser, merely the one pointing out the articles. 

Robertski:

I dont think i need to tread very carefully. I am not the one making the video or writing the Article. I am not the accuser, merely the one pointing out the articles. 

 

Perhaps you'd like to contribute to this thread

http://theweatheroutlook.com/twocommunity/forums/t/18484.aspx

Just out of courtesy...

...And treading carefully is wise when you post links to articles referring to the 'GW Looney Community'.

Done !!

Ulric:

Robertski:

I dont think i need to tread very carefully. I am not the one making the video or writing the Article. I am not the accuser, merely the one pointing out the articles. 

 

Perhaps you'd like to contribute to this thread

http://theweatheroutlook.com/twocommunity/forums/t/18484.aspx

Just out of courtesy...

...And treading carefully is wise when you post links to articles referring to the 'GW Looney Community'.

But from what i have seen and read, surely that's a title used for Skeptics as well !! 

All things being equal, it means little in the scheme of things when you consider the potential for disaster in the future.

Robertski:

All things being equal, it means little in the scheme of things when you consider the potential for disaster in the future.

 

That sounds a little bit alarmist to me

Robertski:

Yes, i realise that it was a controvertial heading and words such as hoax and fraud stir up many emotive feelings.

However when peoples lives are being directly impacted upon by the worlds governments due to a "science" which is so controvertial, the ramifications for us all are immense. If the wrong decisions are made now, it could lead to either huge loss of life in the future, not to even mention the massive economic hardship the world could all suffer.

I have been openminded to all that i read and hear, but recently it has become more apparent that the science is far from settled and yet people in power are playing with our lives.

So if my thread's headlines get some people hot under the collar, i make no apologies, at the end of the day the stakes are too high !!! 

Absolutely agree that the stakes are too high. Sadly with your choice of title I think you declare your position very clearly.  Arguing that because the science - which is highly complex - isn't settled then its all a hoax seems a very odd piece of logic?

If you want to be sobered up about the possible consequences of what we are doing to our planet then I recommend you read this, which I discovered this morning. Of course it is only a prediction, but it is rooted in the known science:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/patrick-takahashi/the-venus-syndrome-part-t_b_106325.html

Personally I think that increasingly the argument is settled.  The only issue now is whether we are able to respond sufficiently and with sufficient urgency to prevent a calamity.

Gandalf The White:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/patrick-takahashi/the-venus-syndrome-part-t_b_106325.html

Personally I think that increasingly the argument is settled.  The only issue now is whether we are able to respond sufficiently and with sufficient urgency to prevent a calamity.

Never read so much Tosh in my entire life. And this guy thinks we've entered "The Venus Syndrome", and low and behold at the end of his rant. Cher Ching!

"Sometimes I feel that I have Cassandra's curse. Who knows? Look for The Venus Syndrome: the Novel, soon to come."

How can you listen to these mad mad people. Madder than the Mad Hatter of Madsville.

Waterspout:

Gandalf The White:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/patrick-takahashi/the-venus-syndrome-part-t_b_106325.html

Personally I think that increasingly the argument is settled.  The only issue now is whether we are able to respond sufficiently and with sufficient urgency to prevent a calamity.

Never read so much Tosh in my entire life. And this guy thinks we've entered "The Venus Syndrome", and low and behold at the end of his rant. Cher Ching!

"Sometimes I feel that I have Cassandra's curse. Who knows? Look for The Venus Syndrome: the Novel, soon to come."

How can you listen to these mad mad people. Madder than the Mad Hatter of Madsville.

Yes, good point.  But then I read the stuff you post in here as well... 

Anyway, so you accept none of the underlying science here?

I agree that it is an extreme interpretation of the science, in much the same way that 'The Day After Tomorrow' was.  Nonetheless, there have been programmes by reputable scientists looking at the threat of widescale methane release due to melting of permafrost and rising ocean temperature.  You can argue the scale and timeline but are you seriously going to argue that the whole line of reasoning is <quote> 'tosh' <unquote> ?

 

Gandalf The White:

Yes, good point.  But then I read the stuff you post in here as well... 

Anyway, so you accept none of the underlying science here?

I agree that it is an extreme interpretation of the science, in much the same way that 'The Day After Tomorrow' was.  Nonetheless, there have been programmes by reputable scientists looking at the threat of widescale methane release due to melting of permafrost and rising ocean temperature.  You can argue the scale and timeline but are you seriously going to argue that the whole line of reasoning is <quote> 'tosh' <unquote> ?

Well, I would argue that "The Day After Tomorrow" is not extreme in the actual science - but it was extreme in the timeline over which it happened - which was about 2 weeks in the Movie wasn't it.

Well, the Permafrost didn't melt in the MWP did it? I'm of the view that many Siberian stations reported Colder temperatures than the reality, in the times of the USSR, in order for the regional Governors to get more money So, do we really know the true temperature record of this area.

As to the rest of this post. Well, the guy says the IPCC had an emergency meeting and brought forward the data of catastrophic melting from 2100 to 2025. If this was so, why ain't it been on the BBC News yet. I would just sum up by saying his blog site appears to be an unreliable source.

P.S. The Ocean Temperature are not currently rising, they are falling.

Waterspout:

How can you listen to these mad mad people. Madder than the Mad Hatter of Madsville.

I see that you are making Robertski feel right at home by mimicking the spirit and tone of his links.

I would like to point out that The Venus Syndrome piece is billed as a work of fiction and really constitutes a socio-political commentary rather than a science paper.

Anyway, to bring some context to the debate for Robertski's benefit, there are two, rather loosely defined opinion groups on the forum here which rejoice under the adopted names of AGW and ABCD.

The derivation of the AGW acronym is obvious. The ABCD stands for 'Anything But Carbon Dioxide' which attempts to draw together the positions of all the various flavours of dissenting opinion without using emotive terms like 'GW Looney' or 'mad mad people'.

Gandalf The White:

Robertski:

Yes, i realise that it was a controvertial heading and words such as hoax and fraud stir up many emotive feelings.

However when peoples lives are being directly impacted upon by the worlds governments due to a "science" which is so controvertial, the ramifications for us all are immense. If the wrong decisions are made now, it could lead to either huge loss of life in the future, not to even mention the massive economic hardship the world could all suffer.

I have been openminded to all that i read and hear, but recently it has become more apparent that the science is far from settled and yet people in power are playing with our lives.

So if my thread's headlines get some people hot under the collar, i make no apologies, at the end of the day the stakes are too high !!! 

Absolutely agree that the stakes are too high. Sadly with your choice of title I think you declare your position very clearly.  Arguing that because the science - which is highly complex - isn't settled then its all a hoax seems a very odd piece of logic?

If you want to be sobered up about the possible consequences of what we are doing to our planet then I recommend you read this, which I discovered this morning. Of course it is only a prediction, but it is rooted in the known science:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/patrick-takahashi/the-venus-syndrome-part-t_b_106325.html

Personally I think that increasingly the argument is settled.  The only issue now is whether we are able to respond sufficiently and with sufficient urgency to prevent a calamity.

"Elvis Presley is seen in Burger king" cry the headline's, does the Journalist believe his own heasdline ?

You see that's the problem, the headline is used to grab the attention not neccesarily to tell one's belief's. You have assumed that you know which side of the fence i sit, simply by my "headline".

The fact is, although i am becoming increasingly scepticle, i am open to discussion and debate. I am not educated enough in the science to form my own conclusions without the help of experts. But im not stupid enough to believe only in "opinion". I want to see true and accurate, unadulterated facts ! At the moment all i hear is opinions, where the " facts" i see, dont appear to back them up...

 

Waterspout:

Gandalf The White:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/patrick-takahashi/the-venus-syndrome-part-t_b_106325.html

Personally I think that increasingly the argument is settled.  The only issue now is whether we are able to respond sufficiently and with sufficient urgency to prevent a calamity.

Never read so much Tosh in my entire life. And this guy thinks we've entered "The Venus Syndrome", and low and behold at the end of his rant. Cher Ching!

"Sometimes I feel that I have Cassandra's curse. Who knows? Look for The Venus Syndrome: the Novel, soon to come."

How can you listen to these mad mad people. Madder than the Mad Hatter of Madsville.

 

Well, the precident is set. Next time you, or someone else, posts the views of some emritus prof to support your view I reserve the right to describe them as one of 'these mad mad people. Madder than the Mad Hatter of Madsville.' . Actually, I suspect you watched to much Blackadder in years gone by