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Polar Low
26 July 2019 15:43:19

wink His stuff has 20c added on before we startcool on a serious note and at a guess I would say the equipment is being calibrated to ensure it’s correct reading weather that is outsourced or in house I don’t know.


Whatever Jiries recorded in his shed should be the official record and that's an end of it 😎😁

I'll go and tweet the Met Office when George has got back to me with his reading.

Originally Posted by: SJV 

warrenb
26 July 2019 15:49:30


MetOffice have released a statement saying the provisional recording wont be decided until next week.


Everything in this country is always too slow.


Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


Classic way of dealing with a PR problem. Wait a while so the story has gone away, and then quietly release a statement.

Tonbridge 45m 
Polar Low
26 July 2019 15:55:20

 No its not a shambles Brian having been an inspector the equipment has to be calibrated we cant record data that variables are not within  acceptable limits# 


Have to be patient it all takes time.



 


Yes it has been a complete shambles. If a new record is declared it will be questioned relentlessly and some people will not accept it. Credibility is shot to shreds. Regardless of one's views on climate change it is obvious that temperature data should now be considered "business critical" and that implies the system must have redundancy built in and be resilient.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Heavy Weather 2013
26 July 2019 15:59:07


 No its not a shambles Brian having been an inspector the equipment has to be calibrated we cant record data that variables are not within  acceptable limits# 


 


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


To be fair to Brian - I think his point is why does this take a number of days. The irony here is that the MetOffice this morning were tweeting about National records being broken in the Netherlands and Belgium before they even mentioned this provisional figure.


I think our network is too old and un-reliable. If we have to verify and check the station, how are we confident that we have been recording accurate figures here before this record. The same goes for all stations. 

Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Polar Low
26 July 2019 16:03:17

The equipment has to be compared to a "standard" unless you have done the job and not being funny it all takes time. 


 Perhaps I have been bit vague there to average folks


The equipment has to compared to a piece of equipment that is the accepted standard its fine to have small margins but these have to be within acceptable limits of the standard equipment. 


 


 



 


To be fair to Brian - I think his point is why does this take a number of days. The irony here is that the MetOffice this morning were tweeting about National records being broken in the Netherlands and Belgium before they even mentioned this provisional figure.


I think our network is too old and un-reliable. If we have to verify and check the station, how are we confident that we have been recording accurate figures here before this record. The same goes for all stations. 


Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 

Ally Pally Snowman
26 July 2019 16:06:25


 


To be fair to Brian - I think his point is why does this take a number of days. The irony here is that the MetOffice this morning were tweeting about National records being broken in the Netherlands and Belgium before they even mentioned this provisional figure.


I think our network is too old and un-reliable. If we have to verify and check the station, how are we confident that we have been recording accurate figures here before this record. The same goes for all stations. 


Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


 


I think the stations are fine, its the lack of speed of confirmation in this day and age is farcical. Also the twiter feed is playing catch up and looks amateur. 

Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
26 July 2019 16:09:43


 


To be fair to Brian - I think his point is why does this take a number of days. The irony here is that the MetOffice this morning were tweeting about National records being broken in the Netherlands and Belgium before they even mentioned this provisional figure.


I think our network is too old and un-reliable. If we have to verify and check the station, how are we confident that we have been recording accurate figures here before this record. The same goes for all stations. 


Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 

Absolutely Agree!  Why does it need to be verified if we use this equipment to report data on a daily basis?  If equipment is working correctly the data shouldn’t be suspect.  It gives little confidence at all.  


Furthermore, other countries make their data available almost instantly, yet we don’t seem to have updated our technology to enable us to do that!  Yes, it’s no doubt down to funding!  

Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
Join the fun and banter of the monthly CET competition.
Polar Low
26 July 2019 16:11:25

no its not Tony it all takes time see my post


=Ally Pally Snowman;1130651]


 


 


I think the stations are fine, its the lack of speed of confirmation in this day and age is farcical. Also the twiter feed is playing catch up and looks amateur. 


Polar Low
26 July 2019 16:17:38

No its not we cant have any tom dick and harry weather station go into the history books without it being correctly calibrated 


As ive said now its the 3 time it takes time ive done the job trust me.


 



no its not Tony it all takes time see my post


=Ally Pally Snowman;1130651]


 


 


I think the stations are fine, its the lack of speed of confirmation in this day and age is farcical. Also the twiter feed is playing catch up and looks amateur. 


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


Rob K
26 July 2019 16:23:34


The equipment has to be compared to a "standard" unless you have done the job and not being funny it all takes time. 


 Perhaps I have been bit vague there to average folks


The equipment has to compared to a piece of equipment that is the accepted standard its fine to have small margins but these have to be within acceptable limits of the standard equipment. 


 


 


 


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


The point is, if it is an official station shouldn't it be regularly inspected and calibrated? Or do they only care if it's a record, and the rest of the time it can be as inaccurate was we like?

Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Polar Low
26 July 2019 16:32:16

Hello Rob, yes someone who has given thought yes if the calibration stamp is out of date then yes that would have to be re calibrated to confirm some outsource some do inhouse it all takes time.


as long its within the variables accepted the record will stand I cant make judgements about individual weather stations but can say data has to be correct to the above to go into the record books


Try to be patient folks


to confirm 


 


The point is, if it is an official station shouldn't it be regularly inspected and calibrated? Or do they only care if it's a record, and the rest of the time it can be as inaccurate was we like?


Originally Posted by: Rob K 

Roger Parsons
26 July 2019 16:39:51


Hello Rob, yes someone who has given thought yes if the calibration stamp is out of date then yes that would have to be re calibrated to confirm some outsource some do inhouse it all takes time.


as long its within the variables accepted the record will stand I cant make judgements about individual weather stations but can say data has to be correct to the above to go into the record books


Try to be patient folks


to confirm 


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


No doubt you are correct, PL, but when shall we have a hot spell like this again? It is a bit of a meteorological disappointment, equivalent to finding you've left your condoms in the limousine as you make your way to the honeymoon suite...

RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
Darren S
26 July 2019 16:41:44


Hello Rob, yes someone who has given thought yes if the calibration stamp is out of date then yes that would have to be re calibrated to confirm some outsource some do inhouse it all takes time.


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


Calibration is far less of an issue than exposure. The majority of erroneous temperature readings are down to where the thermometer is, not the thermometer itself. As had been discussed in this thread, changes to the exposure (e.g. grass v soil v knee-high weeds, surrounding buildings, trees, etc.) are what will likely be considered for yesterday's readings.

Darren
Crowthorne, Berks (87m asl)
South Berks Winter Snow Depth Totals:
2023/24 0 cm; 2022/23 7 cm; 2021/22 1 cm; 2020/21 13 cm; 2019/20 0 cm; 2018/19 14 cm; 2017/18 23 cm; 2016/17 0 cm; 2015/16 0.5 cm; 2014/15 3.5 cm; 2013/14 0 cm; 2012/13 22 cm; 2011/12 7 cm; 2010/11 6 cm; 2009/10 51 cm
Polar Low
26 July 2019 16:41:50

Sorry Rob did not answer this part usually has yearly calibration stamp on equipment with data card with inspectors number on the stamp


'


 


 


The point is, if it is an official station shouldn't it be regularly inspected and calibrated? Or do they only care if it's a record, and the rest of the time it can be as inaccurate was we like?


Originally Posted by: Rob K 

noodle doodle
26 July 2019 16:45:37
Reminds me of the scottish temperature record that wasn't when the met office eventually decided someone had left a car too close to the station :-)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-44725830 
Polar Low
26 July 2019 16:47:49

SR is part of the calibration.


Sorry folks I can see the other side of this as ive said for 4th time now it all takes time 


 



 


Calibration is far less of an issue than exposure. The majority of erroneous temperature readings are down to where the thermometer is, not the thermometer itself. As had been discussed in this thread, changes to the exposure (e.g. grass v soil v knee-high weeds, surrounding buildings, trees, etc.) are what will likely be considered for yesterday's readings.


Originally Posted by: Darren S 

Rob K
26 July 2019 16:50:30


 


No doubt you are correct, PL, but when shall we have a hot spell like this again? It is a bit of a meteorological disappointment, equivalent to finding you've left your condoms in the limousine as you make your way to the honeymoon suite...


Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons 


It's a VAR moment, but yes that analogy works too 

Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
David M Porter
26 July 2019 16:58:39

Reminds me of the scottish temperature record that wasn't when the met office eventually decided someone had left a car too close to the station :-)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-44725830


Originally Posted by: noodle doodle 

">


I recall that well. The media up here were all over it at the time as well.

Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Polar Low
26 July 2019 17:03:58

To be fair Roger Procedures and Calibration are a must when entering into the record books we all want that info to be correct as possible a little time is not without reason prolong time I cant answer for I wish I could I would work late to clarify for what ever reason.


im sure we will know soon.


 


 


No doubt you are correct, PL, but when shall we have a hot spell like this again? It is a bit of a meteorological disappointment, equivalent to finding you've left your condoms in the limousine as you make your way to the honeymoon suite...


Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons 

Nick Gilly
26 July 2019 17:04:10


 


No doubt you are correct, PL, but when shall we have a hot spell like this again? It is a bit of a meteorological disappointment, equivalent to finding you've left your condoms in the limousine as you make your way to the honeymoon suite...


Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons 


August?

Heavy Weather 2013
26 July 2019 17:06:11
Looks like we are going to have to change the plan to lock this thread.

It’s been a lovely and engaging debate. And will hopefully finish with a flourish.
Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Roger Parsons
26 July 2019 17:12:40


August?


Originally Posted by: Nick Gilly 


We can have another nice discussion about it.



 

RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
David M Porter
26 July 2019 17:14:02


 


Its apparently got a four start rating and was awarded a silver rosette last year. Still no mention from the MetOffice. This whole charade is a total embarrassment. I said it earlier, they need to stop spending money on their website and start to invest in the reporting network. 


Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


Maybe this could be something to do with why the BBC's weather forecasting department terminated their decades-long association with the Met Office early last year and joined up with Meteogroup instead.

Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Retron
26 July 2019 17:21:27


 


Its apparently got a four start rating and was awarded a silver rosette last year. Still no mention from the MetOffice. This whole charade is a total embarrassment. I said it earlier, they need to stop spending money on their website and start to invest in the reporting network. 


Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


That doesn't necessarily mean much, as it happens. The star ratings are assigned based on the sensors etc you have, plus their exposire, and the rosette relates to how many days a year you've been uploading - heck, mine has a gold rosette, but it's in no way even close to being an official station!


The four star bit, for example, means the exposure of the instruments is one of these, quoting from the Met Office WOW site:


Exposure


  • 5: Very open exposure: no obstructions within 10h or more of temperature or rainfall instruments.

  • 4: Open exposure: most obstructions/heated buildings 5h or from temperature or rainfall instruments, none within 2h.

  • 3: Standard exposure: no significant obstructions or heated buildings within 2h of temperature or rainfall instruments.


Exposure guidelines are based on a multiple of the height h of the obstruction above the sensor height; the standard is a minimum distance of twice the height (2h). Thus for a raingauge at 30 cm above ground, a building 5 m high should be at least 9.4 m distant (5 m less 0.3 m, x 2), and a 10 m building should be at least 17 m from a thermometer screen (10 m less 1.5 m, x2)


https://wow.metoffice.gov.uk/support/siteratings


 

Leysdown, north Kent
Polar Low
26 July 2019 17:43:52

Hello Darren Yes and one of the problems you can have is that the screen can actually create its own micro climate it may be stated that the larger the bulk of a screen, the stronger the microclimate within the screen and the more the sensed temperature deviates from the real air temperature any design of a thermometer screen is a result of compromises. Hense calibration  Finding the optimal design is a serious challenge   I dont think folk realise what goes into these things.


 


of


 


That doesn't necessarily mean much, as it happens. The star ratings are assigned based on the sensors etc you have, plus their exposire, and the rosette relates to how many days a year you've been uploading - heck, mine has a gold rosette, but it's in no way even close to being an official station!


The four star bit, for example, means the exposure of the instruments is one of these, quoting from the Met Office WOW site:


Exposure


  • 5: Very open exposure: no obstructions within 10h or more of temperature or rainfall instruments.

  • 4: Open exposure: most obstructions/heated buildings 5h or from temperature or rainfall instruments, none within 2h.

  • 3: Standard exposure: no significant obstructions or heated buildings within 2h of temperature or rainfall instruments.


Exposure guidelines are based on a multiple of the height h of the obstruction above the sensor height; the standard is a minimum distance of twice the height (2h). Thus for a raingauge at 30 cm above ground, a building 5 m high should be at least 9.4 m distant (5 m less 0.3 m, x 2), and a 10 m building should be at least 17 m from a thermometer screen (10 m less 1.5 m, x2)


https://wow.metoffice.gov.uk/support/siteratings


 


Originally Posted by: Retron 

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