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xioni2
29 March 2020 13:42:11


 UVC lamps


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


Has anyone got one? My understanding was that they are rather dangerous to use, but Amazon seems to have plenty on sale from China with the usual number of dodgy reviews.

Rob K
29 March 2020 13:42:55


Can anybody in the scientific community explain what is being discussed in this article.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1286457920300344?via%3Dihub


The abstract.


 


One of the most perplexing questions regarding the current COVID-19 coronavirus epidemic is the discrepancy between the severity of cases observed in the Hubei province of China and those occurring elsewhere in the world. One possible answer is antibody dependent enhancement (ADE) of SARS-CoV-2 due to prior exposure to other coronaviruses. ADE modulates the immune response and can elicit sustained inflammation, lymphopenia, and/or cytokine storm, one or all of which have been documented in severe cases and deaths. ADE also requires prior exposure to similar antigenic epitopes, presumably circulating in local viruses, making it a possible explanation for the observed geographic limitation of severe cases and deaths.


Originally Posted by: nouska 


I’m not sure I agree with the article’s suggestion that outside of Hubei, the virus is “no more concerning than influenza”!

Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Ulric
29 March 2020 13:45:48


Can anybody in the scientific community explain what is being discussed in this article.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1286457920300344?via%3Dihub


The abstract.


 


One of the most perplexing questions regarding the current COVID-19 coronavirus epidemic is the discrepancy between the severity of cases observed in the Hubei province of China and those occurring elsewhere in the world. One possible answer is antibody dependent enhancement (ADE) of SARS-CoV-2 due to prior exposure to other coronaviruses. ADE modulates the immune response and can elicit sustained inflammation, lymphopenia, and/or cytokine storm, one or all of which have been documented in severe cases and deaths. ADE also requires prior exposure to similar antigenic epitopes, presumably circulating in local viruses, making it a possible explanation for the observed geographic limitation of severe cases and deaths.


Originally Posted by: nouska 


Interesting. It refers to a mechanism described briefly here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody-dependent_enhancement


The history of that page on Wiki goes back years so it hasn't been proposed yesterday - it would be suspicious if it had.


The implication is that if you have been previously exposed to a different strain of the same (or similar) virus, this might predispose you to more serious symptoms than those who were not previously exposed.


This might account for observed geographical differences in death rates in various places.


It strikes me that we might have a prior example in the 1918 'flu epidemic where the second wave was reported to have higher mortality than the first.


This is not my subject area so I'm guessing about this and would be happy to hear from anyone who has more or better knowledge.

To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. - Henri Poincaré
xioni2
29 March 2020 13:45:57


 I’m not sure I agree with the article’s suggestion that outside of Hubei, the virus is “no more concerning than influenza”!


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


As mentioned before, this was probably an older paper when the virus was still mostly in Asia and high mortality had only been observed in Wuhan/Hubei. We proved them wrong...

Ulric
29 March 2020 13:47:39


 


Has anyone got one? My understanding was that they are rather dangerous to use, but Amazon seems to have plenty on sale from China with the usual number of dodgy reviews.


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


You certainly don't want to expose your skin to too much of that.

To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. - Henri Poincaré
xioni2
29 March 2020 13:49:58


 You certainly don't want to expose your skin to too much of that.


Originally Posted by: Ulric 


Of course, but I wonder if they can be used to disinfect food packaging. Some of the reviews are so funny, 'I use this to stay healthy', 'best thing I ever bought' etc.


 

pfw
  • pfw
  • Advanced Member
29 March 2020 13:54:29

A couple of linked articles I came across on another site: some evidence that UVC wavelengths below 222nm will kill the virus and are also safe to skin.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5552051/


https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...


However this does not mean go out and buy a UVC lamp from Amazon and stick everything under it - you risk skin and eye damage doing so as retail UVC lamps are not necessarily of this type, and may have high power and emit ozone.


It does suggest to me that this might be a technique for medical facilities at some point though.


 

--
Paul.
fairweather
29 March 2020 13:58:54

6,961 tests completed.

The government were lying again...

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 


You could see in his face that Hancock was lying when he was talking of 25,000 a day next week. (said last week).

S.Essex, 42m ASL
fairweather
29 March 2020 14:01:11


 


 


Germany is already testing 10 times our number.


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


And Johnson was claiming we are testing more than most EU countries. There is optimism and there is lying.

S.Essex, 42m ASL
fairweather
29 March 2020 14:03:34


More on killing the little buggers here:


https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-household-cleaning-products-can-kill-the-virus-an-expert-on-which-ones-to-use-134301


Notably it says about surface wipes:


"The antiseptic works well on bacteria as well as on coronaviruses that infect mice and dogs – but it seems to make no difference to the spread of human coronavirus."


 


Originally Posted by: RobN 


I read that it didn't survive for more than a few seconds in the air as tests had shown it couldn't form aerosols like measles can and the larger heavy droplets drop to the ground. You do wonder why it still spreads like wildfire with the world seemingly being so careful though.

S.Essex, 42m ASL
Chunky Pea
29 March 2020 14:04:31

Just to note: soap is the best way of killing the virus - better than disinfectant, certainly, and tends to get into every nook and cranny, unlike gel or wipes.

Originally Posted by: NickR 


A brother of mine gave me a small bottle of alcohol gel the other day (I'll get the name of it later) and it seems to do the job, given how much it stings my hands when it use it. 


Handy for carrying around in your pocket when out and about. 

Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 

"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
Ulric
29 March 2020 14:05:55


 


And Johnson was claiming we are testing more than most EU countries. There is optimism and there is lying.


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


There is little that any member of this government could say ATM which I would accept without checking.

To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. - Henri Poincaré
Gavin D
29 March 2020 14:06:16
Hull Trains are suspending all services from tomorrow to safeguard the future of the business. The company runs trains between Hull and London Kings Cross.
Ulric
29 March 2020 14:10:48


A brother of mine gave me a small bottle of alcohol gel the other day (I'll get the name of it later) and it seems to do the job, given how much it stings my hands when it use it. 


Handy for carrying around in your pocket when out and about. 


Originally Posted by: Chunky Pea 


You've got to be careful. Washing too much can degrease your skin and cause it to crack, depriving you of your body's natural defence.

To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. - Henri Poincaré
fairweather
29 March 2020 14:12:23


 


Im sorry but we and the rest of the world have every damm right to force them to change!!Covid-19 and every other nasty virus originated from there.There disgusting barbaric culture has the world to its knees and impacted everyone on the earth for the worse,people have died because of their culture and you say we have no right to demand they change it,what planet are you on!! China needs to be made to pay for this big time.


Originally Posted by: springsunshine 


What do you mean "make them pay"? What all Chinese people? Punish them somehow, make them learn a lesson? You can see that they take this more seriously than the USA for example. I have no doubt they will be investigating the route and doing something like controlling these markets. 

S.Essex, 42m ASL
David M Porter
29 March 2020 14:13:31


 


And Johnson was claiming we are testing more than most EU countries. There is optimism and there is lying.


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


If was in a room with Boris Johnson which had no windows and he tried to tell me what the weather was like outside, I'd think I would be checking it for myself before accepting what he said as the truth or otherwise.

Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Lionel Hutz
29 March 2020 14:15:23


 


You've got to be careful. Washing too much can degrease your skin and cause it to crack, depriving you of your body's natural defence.


Originally Posted by: Ulric 


Yes, I'm having to moisturize my knuckles as they're drying out on account of overwashing my hands!

Lionel Hutz
Nr.Waterford , S E Ireland
68m ASL



RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
29 March 2020 14:17:32

If this article is anywhere near the truth it is a worrying insight - either into govt basic incompetence or a sign that the govt machine is simply overwhelmed


Coronavirus: UK ‘wasting time’ on NHS protective gear orders


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52082248

Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
Lionel Hutz
29 March 2020 14:17:44


 


Absolutly 100% just give everyone between 21 and 65 that has a national insurance number and isn`t living on benefits a set universal income until things return to normal.So much easier to administer as well id have thought.


Originally Posted by: springsunshine 


The problem with that is that a majority of the workforce is still in employment at the moment. It would surely be wasteful if they received the same payment as those who have lost their jobs?

Lionel Hutz
Nr.Waterford , S E Ireland
68m ASL



ozone_aurora
29 March 2020 14:19:45


 


I read that it didn't survive for more than a few seconds in the air as tests had shown it couldn't form aerosols like measles can and the larger heavy droplets drop to the ground. You do wonder why it still spreads like wildfire with the world seemingly being so careful though.


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


I think the big problem is when someone sneezes. I once saw someone doing that on a single-decker bus, in strong low sunlight. The aerosol was readily visible and soon spread throughout the bus!


Also when you see people vaping, the aerosol can travel as much as 20 feet. I thought to myself, look how far germs can travel. (off course, i t's not the same as sneezing, but just to illustrate how germs travel.)

The Beast from the East
29 March 2020 14:20:25


Soon to be seen in UK streets? 



Originally Posted by: xioni2 


On my walk today I saw a car had been broken into, glass everywhere. It happened overnight as the car was fine on my evening walk yesterday. If this lockdown carries on for a long time, there are going to be massive crime issues and other social problems like domestic abuse and alcoholism


 

"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
fairweather
29 March 2020 14:20:28


 


A brother of mine gave me a small bottle of alcohol gel the other day (I'll get the name of it later) and it seems to do the job, given how much it stings my hands when it use it. 


Handy for carrying around in your pocket when out and about. 


Originally Posted by: Chunky Pea 


I don't think you'll find that "stinging your hands" is a good microbiological measure of how effective it is. Check and see if has over 70% alcohol. 

S.Essex, 42m ASL
The Beast from the East
29 March 2020 14:21:47

Does anyone think the government should have gone down the parachute payment route rather than all these other schemes.

What I mean is just paid everyone a set amount to get through this period.

Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 



We should have copied Trump and given everyone free money. This will help reduce crime and make people feel equal and looked after

"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
29 March 2020 14:24:42


 


Im sorry but we and the rest of the world have every damm right to force them to change!!Covid-19 and every other nasty virus originated from there.There disgusting barbaric culture has the world to its knees and impacted everyone on the earth for the worse,people have died because of their culture and you say we have no right to demand they change it,what planet are you on!! China needs to be made to pay for this big time.


Originally Posted by: springsunshine 


One of the reasons Trump is so popular is that he is the first US President to take on China over trade and other issues. Contrast with our govt who has allowed them to take control of our key industries


 

"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
xioni2
29 March 2020 14:25:14


 Yes, I'm having to moisturize my knuckles as they're drying out on account of overwashing my hands!


Originally Posted by: Lionel Hutz 


I am using this one (probably about 10 times a day) and my hands are still not dry.


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