I took a break from these threads and the news for a few days and a quick catch up this morning suggests I should stay away for longer:

• we still don't have a proper testing capacity (we are not testing enough people and we are not getting the results quickly enough)


• the TTI strategy is still not in place


• the outbreaks in the care homes are still not under control


• The number of new infections is till too high


• Despite the shambolic handling of the epidemic in care homes, the govt continues to lie openly and brazenly (the PM said that there was a lockdown in care homes before the general lockdown and Hancock said that there was a protective ring since February)


• The truth is that not only adequate PPE and testing was not made available to care homes, but they were forced to receive hospital patients without a test, with the authorities essentially seeding and spreading the virus in care homes


• Many people still refuse to acknowledge the catastrophic errors made by the govt; they are effectively legitimise them and they contribute towards lower standards of governance and leadership

Although I am not confident, I still think that we'll probably avoid a second significant surge and we'll just 'muddle through' in a relatively low plateau of new infections and deaths for several months culminating in the worst number of excess deaths in Europe, despite our hugely significant time advantage compared to the rest of Europe. 

Originally Posted by: xioni2 

A Covid19 Bank Holiday?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52674914

Originally Posted by: westv 

As tragic as this is, it’s nothing new and neither is the fact that the virus is so deadly to the elderly and those with underlying conditions.  It’s therefore not unreasonable to expect care home residents to be doubly vulnerable, as they’re generally there for those two reasons.  

For this obvious reason, the emphasis is that care homes need shielding and protecting by every means possible.

Originally Posted by: Caz 

Bit late now! Your continued excuse making for such obvious govt failings is breathtaking.  I understand why Maunder does it, but I didn't think you were so tribal, but perhaps I was wrong and Brexit has changed everything

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

I took a break from these threads and the news for a few days and a quick catch up this morning suggests I should stay away for longer:

• we still don't have a proper testing capacity (we are not testing enough people and we are not getting the results quickly enough)


• the TTI strategy is still not in place


• the outbreaks in the care homes are still not under control


• The number of new infections is till too high


• Despite the shambolic handling of the epidemic in care homes, the govt continues to lie openly and brazenly (the PM said that there was a lockdown in care homes before the general lockdown and Hancock said that there was a protective ring since February)


• The truth is that not only adequate PPE and testing was not made available to care homes, but they were forced to receive hospital patients without a test, with the authorities essentially seeding and spreading the virus in care homes


• Many people still refuse to acknowledge the catastrophic errors made by the govt; they are effectively legitimise them and they contribute towards lower standards of governance and leadership

Although I am not confident, I still think that we'll probably avoid a second significant surge and we'll just 'muddle through' in a relatively low plateau of new infections and deaths for several months culminating in the worst number of excess deaths in Europe, despite our hugely significant time advantage compared to the rest of Europe. 

Originally Posted by: xioni2 

I am not convinced we ever had a "time advantage", given the volume of international travel going through this country.

The virus was already rampant in the community before the lockdown - the reason why the government switched from track and trace to the "delay" phase was simply that we had exhausted our then testing and tracing capacity. From that moment, the die was cast - where I think the UK scored well was in preventing the NHS from being overwhelmed - that was the sole Government priority at the time - even sending people from hospitals to care homes was part of that overriding aim.

When looking at those who have died with COVID-19 - we need to separate those who should have survived from those who were on their last legs and maybe had their lives shortened by a few weeks or months.

Celebrating a nonagenarian recovering from COVID-19 is all well and good, but it does not amount to a hill of beans - I would rather celebrate the patients in their 50s and 60s who recover.

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

Government basically saying they have been fed rubbish by the scientists.

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

A Covid19 Bank Holiday?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52674914

Originally Posted by: westv 

Beast, in all honesty I doubt that you care than much, but I understand why you post as you do - it is all posturing to score pointless political points. If we had a Corbyn Government you would no doubt be stretching every sinew to defend the government, regardless.

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

I am not convinced we ever had a "time advantage", given the volume of international travel going through this country.

The virus was already rampant in the community before the lockdown - the reason why the government switched from track and trace to the "delay" phase was simply that we had exhausted our then testing and tracing capacity. From that moment, the die was cast - where I think the UK scored well was in preventing the NHS from being overwhelmed - that was the sole Government priority at the time - even sending people from hospitals to care homes was part of that overriding aim.

When looking at those who have died with COVID-19 - we need to separate those who should have survived from those who were on their last legs and maybe had their lives shortened by a few weeks or months.

Celebrating a nonagenarian recovering from COVID-19 is all well and good, but it does not amount to a hill of beans - I would rather celebrate the patients in their 50s and 60s who recover.

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

It was only a matter of time before that happened. I'd be the last one to defend the govt, but I have to admit that some of the scientific advice seems to have been poor and too rigid. We obviously don't know what exactly has happened and only a full disclosure of the advice and the minutes from the various meetings could shed some light. 

One of the reasons why I stopped watching the govt briefings is when I felt that govt scientists were no longer talking and behaving like scientists. A lot of what has been said was also misguided IMO. Here are some examples (direct quotes) from Jenny Harries, the deputy chief medical officer for England:

• “We’ve looked at what sorts of interventions might help manage this as we go forward, push the peak of the epidemic forward, and in general, those sorts of events and big gatherings are not seen to be something which is going to have a big effect. So we don’t want to disrupt people’s lives.”


• “There comes a point in a pandemic where tracing is not an appropriate intervention.”


• “the UK was an international exemplar in preparedness”


• "Doctors should have a more adult conversation about the lack of PPE"


• "It is very unlikely that care homes will be infected"

Originally Posted by: xioni2 

Government basically saying they have been fed rubbish by the scientists.

Now the government blames SCIENTISTS for Coronavirus failures: Furious finger-pointing breaks out over testing fiasco and failure to protect care homes as Cabinet minister Therese Coffey says blunders were down to 'wrong' science advice

A furious blame game erupted today as a Cabinet minister claimed government coronavirus blunders were down to 'wrong' science advice.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8333513/Several-lessons-learnt-handling-Covid-19-MPs-say.html

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Surely all the Brexiters and other fanatics should be apoplectic over the choice of metric measurements for social distancing. Why are we told to stay 2 metres away from everybody else? Surely the advice should be to keep a distance of 78.74 inches?

Originally Posted by: Justin W 

UK data

• Tests - 89,784


• People in hospital - 10,025 up from 9,408 yesterday


• Positive cases - 2,412


• All settings deaths - 545

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 

UK data

• People in hospital - 10,025 up from 9,408 yesterday

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 

This is not a good direction of travel

Originally Posted by: Justin W 

People who doggedly refuse to recognise the numerous and grave mistakes made by this govt are really missing the point. This is not a party political issue, the election is 4 years away. This is about demanding good (not perfect!) governance and leadership. If mistakes are not recognised and criticised, then they are more likely to be repeated and the govt would just interpret it as vindication of its choices and performance. If someone is performing poorly in their job but the performance review doesn't reflect it, then what incentive would they have to improve?

Originally Posted by: xioni2