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Gavin D
  • Gavin D
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
21 November 2024 10:57:29


Storm Bert has been named and is forecast to bring heavy rain, strong winds and disruptive snow to parts of the UK through the weekend.
Rob K
21 November 2024 11:13:14
Warnings suggest "100-125mm of rain possible" over Dartmoor and up to 150mm in Wales... on top of several inches of lying/thawing snow in places.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Roger Parsons
21 November 2024 11:30:02

Warnings suggest "100-125mm of rain possible" over Dartmoor and up to 150mm in Wales... on top of several inches of lying/thawing snow in places.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Yes - it looks as if it might be a lively couple of days. Higher temps though, so mostly "wet wet wet".
https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/warnings-and-advice/uk-warnings#?date=2024-11-24 

RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
Gavin D
  • Gavin D
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
21 November 2024 11:40:22
Amber snow warning issued for Storm Bert for the following areas

Central, Tayside & Fife

    Angus
    Perth and Kinross
    Stirling

Grampian

    Aberdeenshire

Highlands & Eilean Siar

    Highland

Strathclyde

    Argyll and Bute

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/warnings-and-advice/uk-warnings#?date=2024-11-23&id=a5f15067-4a4a-43f3-b4e6-a66aae73b008 
johncs2016
21 November 2024 11:48:30
Just yesterday, I posted a question on the MO thread about the possibility of this weekend's low pressure system being officially named as Storm Bert and now that I've done that, I'm not surprised in any way that this has now happened.

Furthermore, anyone who follows Mark Vogan's videos on YouTube will no doubt have seen some possible clues to this possibility.

Mark Vogan doesn't claim to be a professional meteorologist and he works merely as a lorry driver as his main occupation. Yet for someone who is therefore just a weather enthusiast just like me or the likes of Gavin P. (who is also equally just as knowledgeable when it comes to the weather, albeit for different reasons), his knowledge on the weather is very impressive, especially when it comes to the MJO which features quite a lot in his videos.

Mark Vogan has explained on many occasions that certain phases of the MJO (notably phases 7, 8 and 1) tend to favour colder weather here in the UK whilst other phases of the MJO (most notably phases 4 and 5) tend to favour milder weather here in the winter and according to his theory, he can get a rough prediction of what the weather pattern is likely to be at some time in the medium term future before any of that is even picked up by any of the latest models. What makes this even more remarkable is that these predictions then tend more often than not to be all that far away from what actually ends up happening.

According to Mark Vogan's theory about the MJO, phase 3 of the MJO tends to favour stormy weather and it just so happens that the last two named storms (Storm Lilian and Storm Ashley) both coincided with phase 3 of the MJO albeit not necessarily exactly as there is usual a time lag involved with that.

We have just been through phases 7, 8 and 1 of the MJO which is thought to have led to the current cold snap and now, we are coming into phase 3 of the MJO once again so it's a real coincidence that Storm Bert has now been named just as that has happened but Mark Vogan has been hinting for quite a while in his videos that this could lead to a stormy period of weather.

As for the impacts of that, the one positive thing is that we might at least actually get a bit of interesting weather here in Edinburgh at long last. The possibility of snow on the forward edge of this system has been hinted at even for here in Edinburgh but with this type of pattern changing weather system, that very rarely actually happens here especially in NW Edinburgh where I am as the air tends to be already starting to get a bit milder even before the precipitation actually arrives.

Nevertheless, this could get very interesting in many places as regards to any transitional snowfall before the milder air arrives in earnest.

The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.
NMA
  • NMA
  • Advanced Member
21 November 2024 12:08:55

Yes - it looks as if it might be a lively couple of days. Higher temps though, so mostly "wet wet wet".
https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/warnings-and-advice/uk-warnings#?date=2024-11-24 

Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons 


It's "drip drip drip" as I type and thoroughly unpleasant.
Oh for an old school long fetch easterly (same sort low - HP blossoming over Norway as the low slides majestically SE) and not this half frozen nonsense.

Saturday looks interesting if you like lots of wind.
Vale of the Great Dairies
South Dorset
Elevation 60m 197ft
Rob K
21 November 2024 13:50:00

It's "drip drip drip" as I type and thoroughly unpleasant.
Oh for an old school long fetch easterly (same sort low - HP blossoming over Norway as the low slides majestically SE) and not this half frozen nonsense.

Saturday looks interesting if you like lots of wind.

Originally Posted by: NMA 


I think the rain looks more notable than the wind. 10mm+ per hour for an extended period over Dartmoor and S Wales.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
NMA
  • NMA
  • Advanced Member
21 November 2024 14:15:57
I hope so.
Edit the wind that is not the rain.
Vale of the Great Dairies
South Dorset
Elevation 60m 197ft
Retron
21 November 2024 14:37:25

I hope so.
Edit the wind that is not the rain.

Originally Posted by: NMA 


I'm still surprised the MetO hasn't issued any wind warnings - while the speeds aren't off the scale, 36 hours of 50+ gusts (in e.g. Folkestone) will cause all sorts of issues - plenty of trees down, I expect. It's not the strength as much as the very unusual longevity...
Leysdown, north Kent
scillydave
21 November 2024 16:15:18
Flooding could be a real problem in the next 24 / 48hrs despite the dry November so far. Rainfall totals over Dartmoor for example forecast to be 150mm - that added to 20mm or so of snow melt could well cause issues especially if the ground is frozen.
Currently living at roughly 65m asl North of Cowbridge in the Vale of Glamorgan.

Formerly of, Birdlip, highest village in the Cotswolds and snow heaven in winter; Hawkinge in Kent - roof of the South downs and Isles of Scilly, paradise in the UK.
Rob K
21 November 2024 16:42:35
WRF has over 300mm of rain over Dartmoor in the next 80 hours. In fact almost all of that falling in the space of 30 hours. That does seem to be at the extreme end of things though.
https://modeles16.meteociel.fr/modeles/wrfnmm/runs/2024112112/nmm-25-72-0.png?21-16 

Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
doctormog
21 November 2024 19:12:38

I'm still surprised the MetO hasn't issued any wind warnings - while the speeds aren't off the scale, 36 hours of 50+ gusts (in e.g. Folkestone) will cause all sorts of issues - plenty of trees down, I expect. It's not the strength as much as the very unusual longevity...

Originally Posted by: Retron 


There’s a wind warning for many northern parts in Saturday (including here). 

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/warnings-and-advice/uk-warnings#?date=2024-11-23&id=4cea252d-950f-4ae7-948a-c4f7b91852d3 


Hippydave
22 November 2024 08:50:33
Looking sort of IMBY GFS has gusts of 62 mph, would assume around coasts but in the 50s inland and there's a line of stronger gusts that moves east bringing 70+ mph to some parts of the SW and towards central England.

UKV has similar values, a touch higher around Kent coasts than GFS shows and although it doesn't bring have the same line of stronger gusts it does show 70mph for some coastal areas towards the SW.
Arpege is broadly similar. 

Nothing exceptional but enough to cause some issues I'd imagine and can't help feeling if there wasn't so much going on elsewhere they'd have stuck a yellow warning in place for the coastal strip at least. 

Warnings aside it's certainly going to be an interesting weekend wherever you are - 70-80mph gusts for parts of NW Scotland, 60-70mph gusts possible for pretty much the whole of the coastal strip from NW Scotland round to the far SE, 100+mm of rain for some, heavy snow etc.
Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
doctormog
22 November 2024 09:45:59
Police Scotland have advised against travel north of the Central Belt tomorrow.
scillydave
22 November 2024 10:44:53

Looking sort of IMBY GFS has gusts of 62 mph, would assume around coasts but in the 50s inland and there's a line of stronger gusts that moves east bringing 70+ mph to some parts of the SW and towards central England.

UKV has similar values, a touch higher around Kent coasts than GFS shows and although it doesn't bring have the same line of stronger gusts it does show 70mph for some coastal areas towards the SW.
Arpege is broadly similar. 

Nothing exceptional but enough to cause some issues I'd imagine and can't help feeling if there wasn't so much going on elsewhere they'd have stuck a yellow warning in place for the coastal strip at least. 

Warnings aside it's certainly going to be an interesting weekend wherever you are - 70-80mph gusts for parts of NW Scotland, 60-70mph gusts possible for pretty much the whole of the coastal strip from NW Scotland round to the far SE, 100+mm of rain for some, heavy snow etc.

Originally Posted by: Hippydave 


There's a Yellow warning in place now for the costal strip.
Interestingly, there's still a lot of uncertainty around the strength and therefore impacts of storm Bert which is reflected in the warning grid matrix. I wouldn't be surprised to see a number of Amber warnings issued tonight as the detail firms up ahead of tomorrow.
I have a feeling this might be the most impact full storm for a while.
Currently living at roughly 65m asl North of Cowbridge in the Vale of Glamorgan.

Formerly of, Birdlip, highest village in the Cotswolds and snow heaven in winter; Hawkinge in Kent - roof of the South downs and Isles of Scilly, paradise in the UK.
Hippydave
22 November 2024 15:13:41
Will be interesting seeing the 12zs take on Bert.

Arpege tones things down a touch for NW Scotland, holding the core of very strong winds further out to sea and the LP fills somewhat before landfall. GFS does still have 70ish gusts for Scotland and near the Isle of Man but it's further south that sees the strongest gusts, with a 76mph just off the southern coast of Cornwall/Devon. There's also a 69 (no s[censored]ing) just NW of London. 

Can see where the uncertainty in the warnings comes from, must be a bit of a nightmare to forecast, with relatively minor changes potentially having large impacts on who sees the worst of the wind. 

The rain and snow areas look essentially 'nailed' I think, so just a case of chasing down the strongest winds. 

Edit - that's a fun bit of censoring - it says 'snaggering' but spelt correctly, I assume it feels I was making a racist slur!
Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
Chunky Pea
22 November 2024 16:27:47
The altostratus layer that filtered in here over the last couple of hours is very dense and ominous looking. A misty dark haze evident also. 
Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
idj20
22 November 2024 17:51:12
Indeed, this weekend's 36 straight hours of 35 mph sustained southerly containing 65+ mph gusts is pretty much nailed on for this neck of the woods. It's not what I'd call exceptional or dangerous, I've experienced far worse but enough to make me tired of this time of the year. I preferred it when we had the anticyclonic set up. 
Folkestone Harbour. 
Retron
22 November 2024 18:26:16



Edit - that's a fun bit of censoring - it says 'snaggering' but spelt correctly, I assume it feels I was making a racist slur!

Originally Posted by: Hippydave 


Sniggering. 😉

That's something I won't be doing, incidentally, with the winds that are forecast - I've already barricaded my neighbour's dodgy fence with my wheelie bins. I still expect quite a few trees down here in the far SE, especially close to the southern coast. The reasons are a) plenty still have leaves on them, b) we haven't had a strong blow for quite some time and c) the 36 hour duration is remarkable - death by a thousand gusts, so to speak.

At least the MetO has issued wind warnings now (supplementing the ones in Scotland), so it won't be completely unexpected for the population at large!
Leysdown, north Kent
scillydave
22 November 2024 19:12:45

Indeed, this weekend's 36 straight hours of 35 mph sustained southerly containing 65+ mph gusts is pretty much nailed on for this neck of the woods. It's not what I'd call exceptional or dangerous, I've experienced far worse but enough to make me tired of this time of the year. I preferred it when we had the anticyclonic set up. 

Originally Posted by: idj20 


I agree Ian,
It's unusual to have winds at this strength for such a long period of time - it's similar right along the South Coast. I think it'll cause some problems sadly. 
Currently living at roughly 65m asl North of Cowbridge in the Vale of Glamorgan.

Formerly of, Birdlip, highest village in the Cotswolds and snow heaven in winter; Hawkinge in Kent - roof of the South downs and Isles of Scilly, paradise in the UK.
AJ*
  • AJ*
  • Advanced Member
22 November 2024 22:00:30

There's a Yellow warning in place now for the costal strip.
Interestingly, there's still a lot of uncertainty around the strength and therefore impacts of storm Bert which is reflected in the warning grid matrix. I wouldn't be surprised to see a number of Amber warnings issued tonight as the detail firms up ahead of tomorrow.
I have a feeling this might be the most impact full storm for a while.

Originally Posted by: scillydave 


Good call - Amber warning issued at 20:30 for snow tomorrow (Saturday) from 07:00 to 12:00 covering the hills of Scotland south of the Central Belt, The Cheviots, and the Pennines southwards to near Leeds.
Angus; one of the Kent crew on TWO.
Tonbridge, 40m (131ft) asl
johncs2016
22 November 2024 22:30:34

Good call - Amber warning issued at 20:30 for snow tomorrow (Saturday) from 07:00 to 12:00 covering the hills of Scotland south of the Central Belt, The Cheviots, and the Pennines southwards to near Leeds.

Originally Posted by: AJ* 


My elderly parents down in Hawick in the Scottish Borders aren't going to be chuffed about that as they are in that amber warning area and are bound to be impacted by that in some way.

I also have a sister who lives down there and luckily for me, she is able to give them a helping hand until I travel down there myself at Christmas as I normally do.

Here in Edinburgh, we are going to just be under two separate yellow warnings over the course of the weekend consisting of one for wind and another one for both rain and snow. The latter of those is probably unusual in a way because I've seen countless warnings in the past for rain and countless warnings for snow, but I don't recall seeing any warnings before for both rain and snow as one single warning at the same time.
The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.
The Beast from the East
23 November 2024 01:47:03

I agree Ian,
It's unusual to have winds at this strength for such a long period of time - it's similar right along the South Coast. I think it'll cause some problems sadly. 

Originally Posted by: scillydave 


I'm just north of the yellow warning zone, but still expecting some damage from the sustained gusts over the long period, At least most of the trees have lost their leaves.  I still expect the usual fence damage etc
Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President
Matty H
23 November 2024 04:04:41
The talking point with this system will be rainfall and associated flooding - if it pans out as per forecast. A spell of rain here so far, but the radar looks less threatening behind. Given the forecast and modelling you’d imagine it’s going to fill up with rain again at some stage shortly 
Roger Parsons
23 November 2024 05:23:02
Hey CP - radar shows you getting rough weather. What's happening? Nothing over this side here yet....
RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830

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