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Russwirral
Sunday, December 15, 2013 11:12:16 PM
Theres that cold run again for Xmas week that we saw a few days ago. Wonder if we will see this on tomorrows run.

Something tells me it will pan out with a cold northwesterly with wintry showers to North west britain. Ive seen quite a few Xmas's pan out in the that fashion.
Andy Woodcock
Sunday, December 15, 2013 11:38:34 PM

GFS 18Z has clearly picked up on a clear trend and all other models will fall in line tomorrow


A rerun of January 1984 over the Christmas period I reckon.....well the wife said I could have anything I wanted for Christmas


Andy


Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
Sunday, December 15, 2013 11:47:32 PM
Just to say thanks for info and links on dec temps, right now outside its a barmy 13.1C @ 21.30!! Thats 2 metres height.
VSC
The Beast from the East
Sunday, December 15, 2013 11:58:09 PM

ECM op was one of the mildest solutions, so there is some hope out there even though it does look as if we may have to wait until after mid Jan for any cold. No sign of an SWW either which saved the day last year


 


 


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Gooner
Monday, December 16, 2013 12:09:48 AM


GFS 18Z has clearly picked up on a clear trend and all other models will fall in line tomorrow


A rerun of January 1984 over the Christmas period I reckon.....well the wife said I could have anything I wanted for Christmas


Andy


Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


Lets hope it is a trend setter eh?


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
Monday, December 16, 2013 12:17:49 AM

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gensnh-0-1-264.png?18


Control has it's sensible head on and is having nothing to do with it


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Monday, December 16, 2013 12:52:56 AM

Just to say thanks for info and links on dec temps, right now outside its a balmy 13.1C @ 21.30!! Thats 2 metres height. VSC
Just corrected spelling - Mind you barmy isn't too far from the mark with this mild weather. UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: VIRTUAL STORMCHASER 



Yes! Sorry about the misspelling, but I was moisturising at the time!! Now 01.00 & its still 12.9C.... why is it so mild?
VSC
Rob K
Monday, December 16, 2013 4:52:11 AM
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png 

And plenty of very mild ones of course. Still it is the kind of extra wild scatter that often heralds a pattern change in my experience. We shall see...

Not quite sure how people are saying "no cold weather till mid January", especially as the charts don't even reach Jan 1st yet! Some people just like to exaggerate...
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
nsrobins
Monday, December 16, 2013 7:32:42 AM

ECM still keen on removing many an outdoor string of christmas lights on the big day I see.

It's a recurring theme in one form or another and as such the likelihood of a significant storm around the Xmas break is higher than normal.

Other than that, no real change in the mean trending cool zonal pattern.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Gooner
Monday, December 16, 2013 7:40:58 AM

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2281.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn22817.png


Stormy and cool on Xmas Day


 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2521.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn25217.png


Very windy , cold and unsettled, no doubt the North will have temporary blizzards as the wintry showers rattle through


 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3721.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn37217.png


A cold day to end the year


 


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


KevBrads1
Monday, December 16, 2013 7:52:16 AM

ECM still keen on removing many an outdoor string of christmas lights on the big dayp>

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 



I think an umbrella would be useless if you are going to Midnight Mass in county Galway if that chart were to come off!


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roger63
Monday, December 16, 2013 8:05:49 AM


ECM still keen on removing many an outdoor string of christmas lights on the big day I see.

It's a recurring theme in one form or another and as such the likelihood of a significant storm around the Xmas break is higher than normal.

Other than that, no real change in the mean trending cool zonal pattern.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


The development and track of  the Xmas LP seems to hold the key to the last week of the year.The 0h GEFS shows relentless zonality for Xmas  day(90% of ensembles),with the flow split equally between SW and W/NW.


If the low tracks close to the UK it will likely be followed by a  north westerly flow and maybe a short gap in the Atlantic train which would allow HP to form  eg last  night 18h GFS.However HP moving too far north of the UK would more likely keep the more south westerly flow going.


 New years day 384h ensembles show the mix  -90 % zonal flow split 45% West,25% SW and 20%  NW.

Arcus
Monday, December 16, 2013 8:11:19 AM


ECM still keen on removing many an outdoor string of christmas lights on the big day I see.

It's a recurring theme in one form or another and as such the likelihood of a significant storm around the Xmas break is higher than normal.

Other than that, no real change in the mean trending cool zonal pattern.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Indeed Neil, timing as always is open to question, but it looks like it might be pretty stormy for some parts on the big day as it stands. Some electric oven owners might consider cooking the Turkey on Xmas Eve...


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
Gooner
Monday, December 16, 2013 8:20:55 AM

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gensnh-0-1-288.png?0


Control is keen on a cooler flow


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


The Beast from the East
Monday, December 16, 2013 8:24:58 AM


ECM still keen on removing many an outdoor string of christmas lights on the big day I see.

It's a recurring theme in one form or another and as such the likelihood of a significant storm around the Xmas break is higher than normal.

Other than that, no real change in the mean trending cool zonal pattern.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Since the Express has been going on and on about this Xmas "superstorm" for weeks, as much as I'd like to see it, we would never hear the end of the "we warned you" boasting


 


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Arcus
Monday, December 16, 2013 8:27:04 AM

GEM at least offers something a bit more sedate for Xmas Day


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rgem2281.gif
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rgem2282.gif


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
GIBBY
Monday, December 16, 2013 8:55:48 AM

Hi everyone. Here is todays account of the midnight outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Monday December 16th 2013.


All models show an unstable and relatively mild SW flow across the UK. This slackens off over the next 24 hours as a series of troughs finally clear the SE tonight. Then a 24 hour or so window of dry and bright weather with clear spells by night could give rise to the only frost of the week tonight in the North. Late tomorrow and Wednesday a new Atlantic storm winds itself up to the NW carrying renewed gale or severe gales to parts of Britain with rain sweeping East on Wednesday with colder and more showery air on Thursday when wintry showers could affect the North. On Friday, windy and milder air will return with more heavy rain with a rinse and repeat pattern of rain followed by showers looking likely over the coming weekend.


GFS then shows the run up to Christmas as unsettled and windy with rain at times. Conditions will be relatively mild in the South but colder at times in the North with wintry showers in between the spells of wind and rain. Christmas itself will be very windy and stormy across the NW as well as becoming generally rather less mild. Periods of rain look likely on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day followed by squally wintry showers across all areas later on Christmas Day and Boxing Day with gale force Westerly winds. The final days of the year are then typified by further rather cold and unsettled weather with an increasing risk of snow at times in the North as winds turn more NW'ly towards the New Year.


UKMO today ends next weekend on a windy and rainy note with an active and squally cold front crossing East next Sunday with heavy rain followed by rather chilly and showery WNW winds by night time.


GEM today shows High pressure building over Eastern Europe next week with winds backing Southerly or even SE'ly towards Christmas. With Low pressure ganging up to the West the Southerly flow would be very unstable with heavy rain moving North across Britain and more slowly East in temperatures close to average.


NAVGEM keeps strong WSW winds over the UK in the run up to Christmas with spells of rain alternating with showers, wintry in the North.


ECM keeps things very mobile and stormy at times with Christmas Day looking very worrying as an unusually intense Low near the Hebrides through the Day would bring damaging storm force winds to the West and NW in a spell of very heavy rain followed by squally and wintry showers before things moderate somewhat over Boxing Day.


The GFS Ensembles show a very turbulent period of weather over the next few weeks taking us through Christmas and up to the New Year. There is plenty of rain shown by most members throughout the period with the pattern having changed little 14 days from now. There is no indication of any fall off in uppers to levels that would give us anything more wintry to look at though in the colder polar maritime incursions over the next few weeks some short-lived snowy surprises could occur at times especially in the North.


The Jet Stream remains very strong exiting the States and crossing the Atlantic on a collision course for the UK for this week and probably next too with little sign of any major shift of axis and strength to get us out of this very volatile weather pattern.


In Summary it's more of the same today with plenty of wind and rain the talking points of the weather over the 2 week period. There is some output that worryingly suggests a powerful storm system near the UK over Christmas itself with the potential for disruption from strong winds and heavy rain over the period should it evolve as shown. However, rain and gales look like occurring with frequency throughout the period and it will be cold enough at times for some wintry showers as the storm systems recede away each time, only to quickly be replaced by milder and wet weather once more. GFS does show a more NW feed at the end of it's run prolonging a colder and more showery phase at the end of it's output but this is a long way out and to be honest there is little evidence of any pattern shift to what we have now when looking at those charts that go out to 10-14 days from now.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
Monday, December 16, 2013 9:39:39 AM

Indeed no sign of a pattern change detectable in the models. Just the jet and the storm tracks edging south which places the south of the UK more in line for some wild weather.


In the far reaches of FI, GFS shows the temperature gradient across the Eastern Seaboard ameliorating somewhat, as the cold retreats to the arctic.


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013121600/gfsnh-1-384.png?0


So things may quieten down a bit and give some chance for temporary blocking to form. All far out though.


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
Hungry Tiger
Monday, December 16, 2013 10:13:25 AM


GFS 18Z has clearly picked up on a clear trend and all other models will fall in line tomorrow


A rerun of January 1984 over the Christmas period I reckon.....well the wife said I could have anything I wanted for Christmas


Andy


Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 



Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Charmhills
Monday, December 16, 2013 10:20:58 AM

Very unsettled looking runs this morning with plenty of heavy rain and strong to gales force winds for many at times.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Russwirral
Monday, December 16, 2013 10:59:25 AM
Still looking cold(er) after 26th Dec with multiple scenarios being thrown up for colder weather.

Mainly - colder air is likely arrive from the north west or even west. Under cutting lows may cause either stormy weather and or snow on the north edge mostly to hills going off current modelling.

Nice to see the ensembles showing more of a consensus towards colder weather too with >60-70% of the runs going for prolonged sub zero 850hpa temps IMBY, with a large portion hitting the -5*c marker, which may be enough for snow in some parts (away from the hills?)

Certianly the Mountainous districts will look spectacular.

http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/ensimages/ens.20131216/00/t850Cheshire.png 

Odds for a white christmas I would say would be slashed going on recent output (not a proper white christmas - but a bookies white christmas) Quite likely that heavy wintry showers could penetrate quite a large swathe of the country based on recent output.




Sevendust
Monday, December 16, 2013 11:10:36 AM

The only conclusion to be drawn from the ensembles is zonality. The wide variety of options simply relate to the variation of timing on the oscillation of the polar front which will be on either side of the UK on numerous occasions throughout the GFS run.


I would suggest we're going to see a very stormy and wet spell for some time with little indication of anything settled.


Unless we get some proper trough disruption soon we'll be looking well into January for anything meaningful wrt cold.


The proviso to that of course that cooler zonality will  bring wintriness to higher parts of the north especially and the risk of occasional frost in other places where ridges come through and both those possibilities are there....but for us down here I'm writing things off for a while.


If Marcus can organise a secondary low to run across the south in the right conditions to give some haevy snow under evap. cooling then that would be nice

nsrobins
Monday, December 16, 2013 11:33:58 AM

Rumblings about a NW flow cold enough to deliver wintry showers to low levels are a tad optimistic IMO.
Dave is correct - the ENS sinusoidal pattern across the parameter range is classic zonal clutter and there is absolutely no sign of anything that will deliver a block in the right place to deliver cold weather to the UK.
A screaming jet feeding off steep thermal gradients in the uppers across the US seaboard is not conducive for MLB near the UK.


Come back after Christmas if it's cold, frosty, snowy weather you like.
On the other hand, if it's severe gales and rain you're after then you definately need to keep in touch.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Snowedin3
Monday, December 16, 2013 11:45:39 AM
Southerly tracking jet again evident on the 06z in FI the signal being picked up for height rises to the north at the same period worth keeping an eye on I'm sure well see some very cold outliers before long.
Dean Barnes
Finstock, Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire
160m ASL 525 Ft
roger63
Monday, December 16, 2013 12:13:47 PM


The only conclusion to be drawn from the ensembles is zonality. The wide variety of options simply relate to the variation of timing on the oscillation of the polar front which will be on either side of the UK on numerous occasions throughout the GFS run.


I would suggest we're going to see a very stormy and wet spell for some time with little indication of anything settled.


Unless we get some proper trough disruption soon we'll be looking well into January for anything meaningful wrt cold.


The proviso to that of course that cooler zonality will  bring wintriness to higher parts of the north especially and the risk of occasional frost in other places where ridges come through and both those possibilities are there....but for us down here I'm writing things off for a while.


If Marcus can organise a secondary low to run across the south in the right conditions to give some haevy snow under evap. cooling then that would be nice


Originally Posted by: Sevendust 


Broadly agree that zonality dominates as per the GEFS 06H ens.


However there does seem to be more amplification in the flow on the 06h-more ridging-after xmas   illustrated by no 3,4,6,7,9 10,11,12 at 384h


No 7 shows the sort of opportutnty it gives for HP forming over Scadinavia It's clutching at straws i know but at leat there is something to clutch at!


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?ech=384&code=7&mode=0&carte=0


 


 


 

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