Remove ads from site

The Beast from the East
16 January 2014 11:54:19

 


Can someone explain Shannon Entropy?


I thought she was an actress on Beverly Hills 90210 back in the 90s!


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
16 January 2014 12:06:52

GFS control run is stunning!


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gens-0-1-132.png?6


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
marco 79
16 January 2014 12:07:25


 


Can someone explain Shannon Entropy?


I thought she was an actress on Beverly Hills 90210 back in the 90s!


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Very High levels of uncertainty...


 


Home : Mid Leicestershire ...135m ASL
The Beast from the East
16 January 2014 12:10:21

a majority of GEFS members now have an easterly on Monday, albeit a transient one in most cases


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
johnm1976
16 January 2014 12:14:08

I actually believe we have an SSW underway right now, and the confusion in the models is reflecting this. UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: warrenb 


 


 


I don't know if there's an actual SSW occuring now unless it is happening at very high levels I (we?) don't have access to through the models, but I think it's fair to say the strat has generally warmed up since December and the strat vortex as been displaced and diminished.


We had an SSW event in late Dec/ early Jan that bordered on major, although it produced displacement, not mini-vortices.


The warming which looks increasingly likely from about t+240 should be more significant as it will be hitting an already weakened and diminished strat vortex.


In December there was about 2 weeks with scarcely a cold ensemble run and the actual weather was beyond zonal - days on end with rain and winds gusting to 60 or 70mph.


The warming that occurred post Christmas + general stratospheric warm up since is probably the reason things have slowed somewhat and we can see some cold in the models.


And it looks like there's more to come.


 


 

johnm1976
16 January 2014 12:17:30


GFS control run is stunning!


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gens-0-1-132.png?6


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


If mainland Europe was cold it would be stunning........

roger63
16 January 2014 12:20:58

A sign of a shift to more Anticyclonic circulation (50%) out  at the end of FI.Could this be the SSW effect .


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?ech=360&code=11&mode=0&carte=0


 

Sevendust
16 January 2014 12:21:51


I actually believe we have an SSW underway right now, and the confusion in the models is reflecting this. UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: johnm1976 

 


The warming that occurred post Christmas + general stratospheric warm up since is probably the reason things have slowed somewhat and we can see some cold in the models. 


Originally Posted by: warrenb 


Be interesting if that could be proved


Meanwhile, the 6z shows a messy picture. The UK under trough based slackness which eventually allows an easterly in FI


Much as the MetoFaxes indicate, a low looks set to slide under the Scandibloc but the uppers aren't that great


Plenty more rain for some in the next few days

Karl Guille
16 January 2014 12:38:08

A fairly reasonable improvement in the 06z ensembles from what I can see.  This is for somewhere in the region of Manchester!


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/runs/2014011606/graphe3_1000_233_37___.gif


St. Sampson
Guernsey
ITSY
16 January 2014 13:15:20

Just had a look at the GEFS 06Z ens for Eastern England - I fully expected the Control to be a cold outlier but it had a lot of support! Very interesting, particularly given the news relating to MOGREPs. Watch this space. (The last 2 weeks have, if nothing else, been a much more worthwhile period of model watching as they all continue to chop and change after months of continual Atlantic dominance).

Quantum
16 January 2014 13:20:48

I would advise people to watch the runs on the 500mb/SLP paramater at the moment as opposed to the SLP/850hpa. The former gives you much more useful information about where blocking is happening; and also upper level features have a higher verification anyway. I would note in particular the slight amplification of the midatlantic high, and modest height rise in Greenland. Meanwhile in the arctic we have, yes I know...., another bering high nudging into the arctic! Before you laugh it is worth noting that there is a surface high developing in the arctic on the siberian side, combined with height rises on the pacific side this could become a notable feature down the line. Now take this all together we have the potential for blocking to form somewhere else other than scandanavia, the main limiting factor being the cyclogenesis still occuring from cold air over canada. OK so my point is, the cold air will come once we have the blocking; "we're not aiming for the truck" , the rewards down the line could be far greater, scandi highs with no northerly component rarely deliver significant snow anyway.   


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
colin46
16 January 2014 13:48:43


 wonder if we'll see any of this in the coming weeks?


shine on you crazy diamond
192.104 m / 630.262 feet ASL
johnm1976
16 January 2014 13:52:23



I actually believe we have an SSW underway right now, and the confusion in the models is reflecting this. UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: Sevendust 

 


The warming that occurred post Christmas + general stratospheric warm up since is probably the reason things have slowed somewhat and we can see some cold in the models. 


Originally Posted by: johnm1976 


Be interesting if that could be proved


Meanwhile, the 6z shows a messy picture. The UK under trough based slackness which eventually allows an easterly in FI


Much as the MetoFaxes indicate, a low looks set to slide under the Scandibloc but the uppers aren't that great


Plenty more rain for some in the next few days


Originally Posted by: warrenb 


Well, correlation is never total proof of cause, just a probabilistic balance.


I've been watching the strat for several winters now, on a purely subjective observational level.


It is my perception that even small changes in strat temperature produce tropospheric results, sometimes subtle or short lived.


An example would be a slight shift in stratosphere temp from below to substantially above average in late November/ early Dec 2012. It really was a blink and you'll miss it kind of event, however....


This preceded a great deal of excitement on these forums and a week or so later we had transient, localised ice days and some lying snow.


As the warming was relatively minor and transient, however, I did not expect the cold to last and sure enough it was not until a much bigger warming the following January that we got a lasting snow event which was followed by incursions all the way into Spring 2013.


On the flip side the major SSW of late January 2012 delivered sustained deep February cold to continental Europe, but the same plunge merely kissed our East Coast, so it is far from exact.


There are people with far more knowledge than me and better brains who could probably make more of this.


For interested model watching coldies who are condsidering a jump off the Humber Bridge in an endless zonal winter, however, I would say the strat is always, always worth a look before you go! You can go all the way out to t+384 on GFS at both 10 and 30 hPa and it's accurate out to about t+192, and still better than tropospheric modelling at t+240.


The only bad thing is that it is difficult for those without a great deal of time to access ensemble data. You can get raw data from NCEP or pay to see it on a specialist site.


I would say if the tropospheric ensembles and the control runs don't deliver but the strat has been warm, then have your snow shovels and sledges ready and expect a flip..... that's how strong I think the correlation is from having followed it for a while.

Gavin P
16 January 2014 14:45:20

Hi all,


Here's today's video update;


Colder For A Few Day's Next Week?


http://www.gavsweathervids.com


Look's like winds could pull into the east, briefly, before the westerlies probably return. It remains a complicated pattern though.


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
AIMSIR
16 January 2014 14:56:27

Cheers Gavin.


Well explained as usual.


I think us coldies will have to travel North for the moment.

Essan
16 January 2014 15:03:25



 wonder if we'll see any of this in the coming weeks?


Originally Posted by: colin46 



If so, it'll be a first for me! 


Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
Medlock Vale Weather
16 January 2014 15:15:33

Getting there slowly but surely.....http://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?ext=1&x=262&y=37


Alan in Medlock Valley - Oldham's frost hollow. 103 metres above sea level.
What is a frost hollow? http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/Frost-hollow.htm 
roger63
16 January 2014 15:21:49

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?jour=16&mois=1&annee=2014&heure=6&archive=1&mode=0&ech=6&carte=0


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?jour=16&mois=1&annee=2013&heure=6&archive=1&mode=0&ech=6&carte=0


A year ago the Scandi HP formed.


A year on the same day the same  has happened although the comparison shows significant differnces.


My memory is that the easterly flow did not get in properly until the 19/20th.

Russwirral
16 January 2014 16:17:31

Not the best of runs so far. Less of a push from the east .


 


Less of a Slider low at 138hrs.


 


More of a flattening of the flow from the atlantic. ie - Mid atlantic HP remaining strong rather than backing away west and allowing LP over iberia.


 


 


Although saying that - the HP to our east seems to look all that much more healthier.  less features spoiling the southern flank.


warrenb
16 January 2014 16:23:36
I discounted the GFS at 96, just to much change between runs to take seriously I am afraid. May be a new trend, but tonight when the 18z runs, that could be a new trend, or tomorrows 0z could be a new trend. Only thing I can say, is there is no trend.
Russwirral
16 January 2014 16:28:03
Has to be said though - i like the way this is heading. It delays the initial Easterly - but if we can send that WAA over the the top of the Scandi high - it could provide enough kick to push the colder air south back through europe and arrive on our shores.




The Beast from the East
16 January 2014 16:28:05

Oh dear. Goes up in smoke but at least we have pressure rising over the pole


http://www.meteociel.fr/ukmo/runs/2014011612/UN144-21.GIF?16-17


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
16 January 2014 16:30:02

but it



http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?jour=16&mois=1&annee=2014&heure=6&archive=1&mode=0&ech=6&carte=0


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?jour=16&mois=1&annee=2013&heure=6&archive=1&mode=0&ech=6&carte=0


A year ago the Scandi HP formed.


A year on the same day the same  has happened although the comparison shows significant differnces.


My memory is that the easterly flow did not get in properly until the 19/20th.


Originally Posted by: roger63 

Looking back at my account of last year, following some relatively mild weather, we'd had a couple of nights of well below freezing temps as well as freezing daytime temps before the snow started here on 17 January.  It became pretty widespread from 18th and carried on for over a week. 


Previously, the models had been flip flopping for some time and we were having similar 'will it, won't it' conversations on here.  That's not to say it will be the same this year but it does show that it can happen and we had a lot of snowy days right up to April last year.


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
Join the fun and banter of the monthly CET competition.
The Beast from the East
16 January 2014 16:33:40

perhaps events high up are playing havoc with the models. Could do with a belter from ECM just to calm the nerves


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Russwirral
16 January 2014 16:35:37


perhaps events high up are playing havoc with the models. Could do with a belter from ECM just to calm the nerves


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


 


I actually think this is a good run.  At least we can put this "fake easterly" to bed and get on with the action that should build after it.


 


Users browsing this topic

    Remove ads from site

    Ads