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Gooner
29 January 2015 22:16:37

I concede that Mondays low now looks like sliding too far SW to be if much benefit to most and this has been consistently modeled by GFS these last few days. Never mind.
The feature on Tues could contribute - just have to see.

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


I'm not sure it has ever been in contention Neil, has it?


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
29 January 2015 22:23:58


Still a cold feed



Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
29 January 2015 22:30:07


Coldest week for 2 years on the way wouldn't be difficult I know , just need some lying snow



 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Karl Guille
29 January 2015 22:49:05


 


I'm not sure it has ever been in contention Neil, has it?


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Whilst I don't expect a repeat of 11/03/13, its interesting to note that on that epic day the uppers were only -3/-4 and we received some 34mm rain (over a foot of snow) in less than 24hrs in force 8/9 easterly winds and 2m temps hovering around freezing or marginally above! On the 18z we would look set to receive less precipitation but on a S/E, then E turning N wind with uppers of -5/-7 and dew points of 0/-2. Won't happen that way but certainly of interest to see how the low develops and tracks S/E into France early next week. ;) 


St. Sampson
Guernsey
Ally Pally Snowman
29 January 2015 22:49:56

The local Look East weather seem to suggest a fair bit of snow could fall over the weekend especially Sunday. 


The Fax certainly looks snowy. At odds with the national forecast though we'll have to wait and see.


 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?ech=60&carte=2000


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
David M Porter
29 January 2015 23:05:45


While there is a lot going on in the near term, inconsistency with the details makes analysis rather unreliable... so instead I have just given some thought as to what might come our way as we progress beyond week 1 of February:


 


For starters, I am increasingly suspicious that the idea of a ridge from the Atlantic linking with the Siberian High via Scandinavia has been a product of the usual GFS bias to take low heights in the NW Atlantic to the NE when actually it is more likely to progress east as per the ECM 12z op run. Such a progression is also just beginning on the UKMO 12z run at day 6.


This means we play a more complicated game, looking to the Siberian High to disrupt troughs and send low heights down through Europe. ECM manages the right sort of thing for day 8. The next trough could have behaved in a similar way but the model really blew that up into a monster... if this feature was slower and/or less intense, the outlook for days 11-12 would be more promising for us.


 


A large part of the reasoning behind my suspicions is the modeled behaviour of the stratospheric vortex; it's indicated to remain displaced to Siberia, which encourages major troughs to vacate the Greenland area.


This situation matches what we have been seeing at work to help bring about our current Euro-trough setup. This leads me to the impression that the potential is very much there for another major trough (which is what I like to call the large-scale, long-wave troughs) dropping into Europe by mid month.


BUT this can only be achieved with the help of enough amplification upstream (U.S. to western N. Atlantic). So what are the odds of getting enough amplification again this time?


Well... for the situation we have now, despite the displaced stratospheric vortex being predicted well in advance, the models originally had the jet too flat and progressive, with the major troughs over Greenland just drifting over to Siberia, the flow through the UK being generally from the west.


We then saw the models adjust to a less progressive solution and all of a sudden, the dig of low heights into Europe manifested, with the Azores High taking a hike NW.


This time around, background signals remain similar and with growing support for a more blocked result if we can manage to cycle through the sequence again, thanks in part to the consistently modeled development of a vastly stronger and more expansive Siberian High.


 


So concludes an experimental attempt to foresee the general direction of travel for a period some 14 days ahead. I can't promise that the Atlantic westerlies won't manage to find their way in for a time at least... let alone that we'll see all the blocks fall into the right places by mid-month or even at any point until the end of February. Such is the problem with long range forecasting 


 


For what it's worth... as of days 10-11 on the 12z GFS run, it was actually pretty close to following this route. It may be that adjustments away from it's 'Murr Sausage' idea toward something more like ECM's 'disrupting Icelandic troughs' idea has produced a less attractive halfway house.


The ECM  12z actually appears to be on route to the major trough ending up further east than we are seeing with the current event. Acceptable here if a long-fetch easterly was the end result... yeah I'm that greedy 


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


Thanks James, sounds as though February could potentially be quite an interesting month.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Karl Guille
29 January 2015 23:20:32
Almost universal agreement on the GFS 18z ensembles at T168 of an easterly or north-easterly flow. I am expecting the short ensembles to be the best IMBY of this current predicted cold spell! 😉
St. Sampson
Guernsey
eastcoaster
29 January 2015 23:26:35

Almost universal agreement on the GFS 18z ensembles at T168 of an easterly or north-easterly flow. I am expecting the short ensembles to be the best IMBY of this current predicted cold spell! 😉

Originally Posted by: Karl Guille 


absolutely, there are some very tasty ensembles at 168hr, hopefully we will see a couple of very good op runs tomorrow

Karl Guille
29 January 2015 23:27:03
Simply stunning charts at T192 from the GFS ensembles!
St. Sampson
Guernsey
Gooner
29 January 2015 23:37:22

Modele UKMO - Carte FAX Bracknell - Pression et fronts


120 fax shows a front leaving the SW


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
29 January 2015 23:42:26

Simply stunning charts at T192 from the GFS ensembles!

Originally Posted by: Karl Guille 


Some real beauties


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Karl Guille
29 January 2015 23:47:17


 


Some real beauties


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


And at T264, all bar about 4 perturbations still persist with the easterly theme!


St. Sampson
Guernsey
Stormchaser
29 January 2015 23:54:44

The 18z GFS op does strange things with the Atlantic troughs days 7-8... I've never seen a LP disrupt and split only for the low heights to keep heading east like that.


Certainly the furthest removed any recent GFS op run has been from the signal for sustained amplification of HP in the Atlantic. The GEM 12z was similar. Hopefully getting very carried away with the spike in westerly momentum just as they did for the 5-day period we're now entering. What a flip from GEM... but all too typical of that model.


Curious that the GEFS are looking so decent... seems like many are still powering the low heights NE from the point SW of Greenland instead of E so could be the bias showing its hand in an unusual way as was the case with the GFS op runs until the 12z.


 


With these questions being raised, I'm hoping to see the easterly incursion for the middle of next week sustained or improved tomorrow, to improve the chances of sustaining any lying snow from the Sun-Tue period.


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

https://twitter.com/peacockreports 
2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Zubzero
29 January 2015 23:58:18

Quick question


Whats the reason we can only see the Euro4 run on http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/


Be great to see it in more detail like we can see the WRF  


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/wrfnmm.php?ech=3&mode=0&map=330


 


 


 


 

kal
30 January 2015 00:20:25

Was correct. Polar low heading across Midlands. Not as forecast!

Quantum
30 January 2015 00:50:23

Think a major upgrade is going to happen on the 0Z. Most of the ensembles are showing an easterly developing and some varient of a scandi high. The GFS OP and ECM OP were both mild outliers and therefore should be discounted as unrepresentative. 


Instead the NAVGEM 144hr should be taken seriously.



2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Gooner
30 January 2015 01:17:07


Was correct. Polar low heading across Midlands. Not as forecast!


Originally Posted by: kal 


Erm it was , I have seen a number of forecast showing across  B'ham etc


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


kal
30 January 2015 01:25:17
Erm it was not! Forecast was Wales western England then southern England! !!!!
kmoorman
30 January 2015 07:13:36
Is it the lack of an Easterly on the UKMO, ECM Op and GFS Op that's the cause of no posts in here this morning?
Home: Durrington, Worthing, West Sussex. (16 ASL)
Work: Canary Wharf, London
Follow me on Twitter @kmoorman1968
doctormog
30 January 2015 07:20:02
I doubt it as the majority of model data have not shown an easterly in any relable timescale. It is a worry though that the programmed northerly, whilst still on the charts, has been tweaked to make it a little more marginal (for favoured low lying areas).

The wait for snow continues.
nsrobins
30 January 2015 07:39:33


Think a major upgrade is going to happen on the 0Z. Most of the ensembles are showing an easterly developing and some varient of a scandi high. The GFS OP and ECM OP were both mild outliers and therefore should be discounted as unrepresentative. 


Instead the NAVGEM 144hr should be taken seriously.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


No doubt Q will let us know where the major upgrade is this morning?


Trying to outguess the models is all about momentum, and there was never any sustained signal for an easterly in any of the output as Michael says. It may reappear, who knows? But the trend is once again a return of westerly type conditions, as per (and again hats off to the UKMet) their longer range forecasts.
Of course the only thing you can be 100% confident about is the chart for Z00hrs, and right now it's not too cold and it's raining in the wind. A great forecast!


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Gooner
30 January 2015 07:47:27

Erm it was not! Forecast was Wales western England then southern England! !!!!

Originally Posted by: kal 


Again you are incorrect, I saw several forecasts yesterday evening and late at night on the BEEB and the white shadings ( snow) ran across Birmingham ( Midlands)


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
30 January 2015 07:52:12

No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.


Agreement to the 7th , after looks as though there is a rise in temp.


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Rob K
30 January 2015 07:56:31
All looks very uninspiring this morning, both out of the window and on the models. Such is the pendulum of winter optimism...
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Andy Woodcock
30 January 2015 07:56:49

ECM ends the cold spell next weekend but the 240 chart has reload written all over it with the Atlantic a High ready to pull back and any future northerly would be helped by the Canadian/Baffin Island High which will encourage south eastwards displacement of the vortex.


February 1969 could be an analogy for next month with several northerly spells each more severe and longer lasting than the previous one.


i don't think the sinking Atlantic High will re establish zonality or Lead to a Bartlett set up.


Andy


Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001

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