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Whether Idle
28 November 2015 06:07:27

An impressively mild FI chart from GFS this morning.  The polar vortex looks strong and the mid latitude highs also muscular.  A flattish stable pattern that could persist for much of the month and beyond, albeit with the Azores high occasionally nosing across us and "Euroing" it a bit for a while before being flattened by a trough surging across the pond to reset the locked-in pattern.  


A  waiting game for Coldies I think.



Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
doctormog
28 November 2015 08:19:20
On the subject of cold, it is interesting to see the blues on the temperature outlook maps from the GFS for the next week across a large swathe of Northern Scotland

http://wxmaps.org/pix/temp4.html 

Gusty
28 November 2015 08:55:24

On the subject of cold, it is interesting to see the blues on the temperature outlook maps from the GFS for the next week across a large swathe of Northern Scotland

http://wxmaps.org/pix/temp4.html

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Indeed Michael. Monday is a good example of this.


Modele GFS - Carte prévisions


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/stevewall69/ 



nsrobins
28 November 2015 09:20:57

That little bit of momentum towards height rises to the NE has faded it seems - for now. The NWP in winter is sometimes like the girl in the office who wears that especially tight blue skirt - happy to waft herself in front of you every day, but that blue is always destined for somewhere else 😘
The next week or so look solidly 'westerly' with a mix of wind, rain, hill snow up North and very mild at times in Fohn areas.

Hoping the skirt will make an appearance again soon.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Andy Woodcock
28 November 2015 09:23:47

Hmmm, I struggle to see how that GFS chart above could be worse!

Talk of cold or even seasonal weather is putting a spin on some very poor charts, we expected this El Niño effect of course but it's a terrible start to winter which ever way you look at it.

Deep Icelandic lows and stable Euro Highs don't do it for me, it's all Bartlett Heaven.

Andy


Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
Solar Cycles
28 November 2015 09:27:20


That little bit of momentum towards height rises to the NE has faded it seems - for now. The NWP in winter is sometimes like the girl in the office who wears that especially tight blue skirt - happy to waft herself in front of you every day, but that blue is always destined for somewhere else 😘
The next week or so look solidly 'westerly' with a mix of wind, rain, hill snow up North and very mild at times in Fohn areas.

Hoping the skirt will make an appearance again soon.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 

I thought I was reading an abstract from Razzle then.

Solar Cycles
28 November 2015 09:28:33


Hmmm, I struggle to see how that GFS chart above could be worse!

Talk of cold or even seasonal weather is putting a spin on some very poor charts, we expected this El Niño effect of course but it's a terrible start to winter which ever way you look at it.

Deep Icelandic lows and stable Euro Highs don't do it for me, it's all Bartlett Heaven.

Andy


Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 

Then after Razzle comes the memoirs of a manic depressive.

doctormog
28 November 2015 09:30:14

Hmmm, I struggle to see how that GFS chart above could be worse!

Talk of cold or even seasonal weather is putting a spin and mostly very poor charts, we expected this El Niño effect of course but it's a terrible start to winter which ever way you look at it.

Deep Icelandic lows and stable Euro Highs don't do it for me, it's all Bartlett Heaven.

Andy

Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


 


Well a few days before or after on the same run show much more seasonal conditions? Nothing massively cold on the outlook but not an unseasonal picture either. There is a bit of a N/S split this morning, more so on the GFS data with northern parts being a little bit cooler than average and southern parts being a bit milder


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_Aberdeen_ens.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png


However it is not really noteworthy except for a few sudden swings in temperature which may bring with them some active frontal features or squalls and as Neil suggests a few spikes in temperatures in prone locations. Somewhere like Aboyne could go from warm sunshine to snow within a 24hr period.


Solar Cycles
28 November 2015 09:32:38


 


 


Well a few days before or after on the same run show much more seasonal conditions? Nothing massively cold on the outlook but not an unseasonal picture either. There is a bit of a N/S split this morning, more so on the GFS data with northern parts being a little bit cooler than average and southern parts being a bit milder


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_Aberdeen_ens.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png


However it is not really noteworthy except for a few sudden swings in temperature which may bring with them some active frontal features or squalls and as Neil suggests a few spikes in temperatures in prone locations. Somewhere like Aboyne could go from warm sunshine to snow within a 24hr period.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 

I would say it's your typical start to December regardless of ENSO state, nothing really cold with a few mild days in-between the average ones. In other words BORING.

some faraway beach
28 November 2015 09:37:54


An impressively mild FI chart from GFS this morning.  The polar vortex looks strong and the mid latitude highs also muscular.  A flattish stable pattern that could persist for much of the month and beyond, albeit with the Azores high occasionally nosing across us and "Euroing" it a bit for a while before being flattened by a trough surging across the pond to reset the locked-in pattern.  


A  waiting game for Coldies I think.



Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


 


Second-mildest run out of the twenty on that particular date according to the London ensemble posted by Doctormog above.


Not really suggesting a "locked-in pattern" overall.


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.
Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.
Shropshire
28 November 2015 10:00:48

So the ECM was right yesterday then ? Looks like something that will take some shifting.


 


 


From December 27th 2020, zonality will be banned from mixing with the UK. We appreciate that this may come as a shock to younger people and old Uncle Barty. This ban will last for a minimum of ten days.
doctormog
28 November 2015 10:05:17


So the ECM was right yesterday then ? Looks like something that will take some shifting.


 


 


Originally Posted by: Shropshire 


 Surely the time period in question has to have elapsed before anything can be judged as "right"?


David M Porter
28 November 2015 10:13:34


 


 Surely the time period in question has to have elapsed before anything can be judged as "right"?


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Absolutely Michael. Second-guessing the model output in my opinion is no more wise than doing the same thing with the weather. Mother nature will always be one step ahead of us.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Russwirral
28 November 2015 10:19:29
ello ello ello whats all this then!.... this little feature could turn a few places wintry :)

http://max.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20151128/06/144/h850t850eu.png 
Shropshire
28 November 2015 10:32:47


 


 Surely the time period in question has to have elapsed before anything can be judged as "right"?


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


 


Yes of course, I mean the settled outlook that was shown by the GFS has been dropped.


 


From December 27th 2020, zonality will be banned from mixing with the UK. We appreciate that this may come as a shock to younger people and old Uncle Barty. This ban will last for a minimum of ten days.
JACKO4EVER
28 November 2015 10:35:27


 


 Surely the time period in question has to have elapsed before anything can be judged as "right"?


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Quite right Doc, but I would expect the broad theme to be correct, but as you say only time will tell.


In the meantime it feels quite raw today after a very slight frost last night.

GIBBY
28 November 2015 11:33:43


So the ECM was right yesterday then ? Looks like something that will take some shifting.


 


 


Originally Posted by: Shropshire 


It's the reason why I sided with ECM yesterday in my report that until ECM is on board along with its ensemble members I refuse to judge GFS and any other model in isolation as whatever folks say it's verification rates at 10 days plus especially are better than any other model even more so being GFS has 4 runs a day compared to 2 for ECM so has more chance of getting it right.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Gooner
28 November 2015 12:07:02


So the ECM was right yesterday then ? Looks like something that will take some shifting.


 


 


Originally Posted by: Shropshire 


Right about what ???


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
28 November 2015 12:08:04


 


Quite right Doc, but I would expect the broad theme to be correct, but as you say only time will tell.


In the meantime it feels quite raw today after a very slight frost last night.


Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


Steady on there Jacko


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


JACKO4EVER
28 November 2015 12:17:08


 


Steady on there Jacko


Originally Posted by: Gooner 



God I had too much to drink last night LOL


roger63
28 November 2015 12:36:15

A few observations  on December circulation types. Jn his book "The English Climate,the author H.H.Lamb.identified singularities of various weather types.For December he identified the 17-24th  as  December Continental  Anticyclones.He describes the typical circulation development as " anticyclonic development over central and sometimes nor,Europe tends to occur through spread (or movement) of  the Siberian winter towards N Russia (and Scandinavia ) from 9/12 onwards and development of Highs over France- central Europe in former maritime air about 20/12.


So Anticyclonic weather is no stranger to December.If asked which winter month has the highest level of blocking ie NAO-  circulation many of us I suspect would go for February.In fact over the last seventy winters the proportion of winter months having an NAO - circulation are December 49%,January 33% and February 39%.


Hope that puts things in context -but I would still expect December 2015 to be NAO +.

Chunky Pea
28 November 2015 14:24:15


A few observations  on December circulation types. Jn his book "The English Climate,the author H.H.Lamb.identified singularities of various weather types.For December he identified the 17-24th  as  December Continental  Anticyclones.He describes the typical circulation development as " anticyclonic development over central and sometimes nor,Europe tends to occur through spread (or movement) of  the Siberian winter towards N Russia (and Scandinavia ) from 9/12 onwards and development of Highs over France- central Europe in former maritime air about 20/12.


So Anticyclonic weather is no stranger to December.If asked which winter month has the highest level of blocking ie NAO-  circulation many of us I suspect would go for February.In fact over the last seventy winters the proportion of winter months having an NAO - circulation are December 49%,January 33% and February 39%.


Hope that puts things in context -but I would still expect December 2015 to be NAO +.


Originally Posted by: roger63 


Very interesting roger63. Have always been very interested in Lamb's work and his studies on singularities.


 


Not sure if it is of any use or of much relevance the UK, but this chart shows the 60 year average (base: 1961-2010) of daily mean sea level pressure here in Ireland (it is based around a number of grib points from around the island)  that I extracted from ERA-15 & ERA -40 reanalysis database.


 



 


The chart shows some singularities of sorts regarding daily pressure trends over the winter months over this climate period. Interestingly, it shows that higher than average pressures is more often than not likely to occur during the mid-December period, and again during the early-mid part and late part of January. Regarding February, there is a more defined 'cyclonic' singularity during the first half of the month which then switches to a more anticyclonic 2nd half.


Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
Gooner
28 November 2015 16:32:23


Huge temp contrast


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


doctormog
28 November 2015 16:40:46
Yes Marcus and tomorrow and Monday are similar. I think in the next few days there is potential for some heavy precipitation on the dividing line between cold and mild and forsome there could be a fair bit of snow for a few "lucky" northern or especially northwestern parts.
Gooner
28 November 2015 16:49:19

Yes Marcus and tomorrow and Monday are similar. I think in the next few days there is potential for some heavy precipitation on the dividing line between cold and mild and forsome there could be a fair bit of snow for a few "lucky" northern or especially northwestern parts.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


It certainly looks that way ,  its not all about the South


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


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