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Whether Idle
08 December 2015 21:00:46

ECM ensembles shows the operational as a big warm outlier, while the control is on the cool side. Models flip flopping all over the place
Martin

Originally Posted by: marting 


Its not an outlier, it is on the milder side of the ensembles with some support.  An outlier means it is out of kilter with other ens runs.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Gooner
08 December 2015 21:04:38


 


Its not an outlier, it is on the milder side of the ensembles with some support.  An outlier means it is out of kilter with other ens runs.


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Call for Darren


 


DAAAARRRRRRRRREEEEEEENNNNNNNNN


 


LOL


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


doctormog
08 December 2015 21:09:22
http://cdn.knmi.nl/knmi/map/page/weer/waarschuwingen_verwachtingen/ensemble/detail/ensemble-verwachtingen-detail10.png 

In the medium to longer term it is certainly on of the warmer options with a big "averagish" cluster.
Gooner
08 December 2015 21:12:13


 


Its not an outlier, it is on the milder side of the ensembles with some support.  An outlier means it is out of kilter with other ens runs.


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Very little, it has to be said


 


Thanks Michael 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


marting
08 December 2015 21:14:21
Whatever we want to call it, all the main models seem to be having these type of runs with the operational runs being colder in general than the pack and then warmer in general than the pack. At least it keeps us on our toes!
Martin
Martin
Greasby, Wirral.
Whether Idle
08 December 2015 21:15:32


 


Very little, it has to be said


 


 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


No, it has support as you can see, at times not far from the mean.



Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
doctormog
08 December 2015 21:18:38

It is fairly representative until day 6 (next Monday) after that it could for all intents and purposes be declared an outlier.


Whether Idle
08 December 2015 21:33:36


It is fairly representative until day 6 (next Monday) after that it could for all intents and purposes be declared an outlier.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


your definition of outlier is very different from mine.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Chunky Pea
08 December 2015 21:39:24


 


your definition of outlier is very different from mine.


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Indeed, doesn't look much of an outlier to me, unless I am missing something?


Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
Charmhills
08 December 2015 21:41:28


It is fairly representative until day 6 (next Monday) after that it could for all intents and purposes be declared an outlier.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Yes, it is what it looks like to me.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
doctormog
08 December 2015 21:46:41


 


your definition of outlier is very different from mine.


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Well the (not my) fpdefinitin if an outlier is smelling that is not part of a group of representative or a main grouping. If you think that the ECM does not fit that description in the time period I describe that is your prerogative. It is certainly n an outlier in the next 6 days but I have clearly stated that already.


Arcus
08 December 2015 21:47:44


 


Indeed, doesn't look much of an outlier to me, unless I am missing something?


Originally Posted by: Chunky Pea 


Everything is an outlier beyond a certain point, and that point is coming closer compared to normal modelling. Taxi for Shannon? Surname Entropy?


It's all good fun. 


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
doctormog
08 December 2015 21:47:47


 


Indeed, doesn't look much of an outlier to me, unless I am missing something?


Originally Posted by: Chunky Pea 


Yes, I think you must be.  Do you see the red line from day 6 to 10 that is away from the main groupings? 


The Beast from the East
08 December 2015 21:56:14
I haven't bothered looking at the models recently. December was always looking like a write off and it still does to be fair. Perhaps something more seasonal but no sign of any snow. All in line will most of the LRFs.
"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
idj20
08 December 2015 21:57:26

I still don't get this "outlier" thing. It's a bit like a football fan trying to explain the offside rule to me and I still wouldn't be any wiser for it. I have tried to Google "outlier" but I ended up finding out I have 231 type of illnesses and 145 of them are potentially fatal.

Anyway, back on topic, I'm actually struggling with the outcome for this weekend (will it be a wet or dry one for here at Kent), never mind anything beyond that but I'm sure the water will be less muddy tomorrow morning when I do my next personal forecast.


Folkestone Harbour. 
Chunky Pea
08 December 2015 21:59:19


 


Yes, I think you must be.  Do you see the red line from day 6 to 10 that is away from the main groupings? 


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


 


Only I'm not. The general north Atlantic pattern is not that far removed from the mean at day 10. Local differences such as what your red lines represent mean little when set against the bigger picture.


 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2402.gif  Op at day 10


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2402.gif  Mean at day 10


Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
Gooner
08 December 2015 22:01:40

O/T


The 21:55 showed nothing of what GFS is showing , in the end went for full on Atlantic attack with LP's hitting the UK


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Russwirral
08 December 2015 22:11:18
Nice temperature contrast

Fingers crossed this isnt going to cause yet more rain...

http://max.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20151208/18/105/ukmaxtemp.png 

Some places could end up with a surprise snow event from this i think
Maunder Minimum
08 December 2015 22:15:46

And now for something completely different - I give you the 18z at 138 hours:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=138&mode=0&carte=1


When there is so much variation in the output. you know something is brewing.


New world order coming.
Karl Guille
08 December 2015 22:19:44

Gfs 18z certainly is very different at T132 with the low about six hundred or so miles further south west than on the 12z. At least the models are generating some interest at last!


St. Sampson
Guernsey
Russwirral
08 December 2015 22:19:54
18z run is trying to do something... Scndi high is almost developing....

Just another option in FI
Arcus
08 December 2015 22:22:33


And now for something completely different - I give you the 18z at 138 hours:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=138&mode=0&carte=1


When there is so much variation in the output. you know something is brewing.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


And I give you this


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1502.gif


as yet another example of how much the models are struggling. The disputed genesis of this development is much earlier on, hence the degree of scepticism on anything beyond 3 days at present. Shannon!


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
Solar Cycles
08 December 2015 22:26:46
FI starts around +96 for me, of course we know now that the rest of December is going to mild.😜
Maunder Minimum
08 December 2015 22:29:22

FI starts around +96 for me, of course we know now that the rest of December is going to mild.😜

Originally Posted by: Solar Cycles 


The 18Z is problematic - sure, it gives a Scandi HP, but it is damn all use to us in the given timeframe, because heights remain stubbornly high over central Europe,


A Scandi HP without LP to our south is as much use as a chocolate teapot.


New world order coming.
Stormchaser
08 December 2015 22:38:13
Technically an outlier is an outcome further than 1 or 2 standard deviations from the mean. Obviously calculating the size of a standard deviation each time over would be a right pain so its best to just go with any runs a long way from the majority as a guide. So there can be several outliers in a suite.

I see that LP from the subtropics is causing a lot of issues. The 18z GFS op has moved toward ECM wrt that but other elements remain different.
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