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Gandalf The White
04 January 2016 19:17:32


- 8 850hPA temps widely across the UK at T240 on the 12z ECM with a second low set to tumble down over the UK from Iceland in a second attempt to lower heights over Southern Europe and set up something with more of an easterly flavour! 😜


Originally Posted by: Karl Guille 


Yes, some consistency from ECM about a cold snap - at least - from next Tuesday.


The UK map shows the potential for wintry precipitation well - although obviously the detail will change run to run - but for now this says 'snow' to me, with 500-1,000 hPa values in the mid-520s for the Home Counties and a marked trough and small LP.



Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


idj20
04 January 2016 19:28:25

It seems that for a change, all the models (GFS, ECM, NAVGEM and GEM) are in some kind of agreement with a change to colder conditions at around the 12th. That is a signal too strong to disregard.

However, 7 days is still a long way in forecasting terms so there'll be some chopping and changing as we get nearer to the time. All we need now is for it to come into UKMO's range.


Folkestone Harbour. 
Solar Cycles
04 January 2016 19:31:17

It still doesn't look likely this will be anything but a short albeit very cold blast from the North, the lobe of PV coming out of the Canadian sector will halt any height rises pushing towards Greenland.

mildmildwest
04 January 2016 19:35:56

GEFS P12 and 19 looking great this evening


A number of others bring -10 850s very close to the SE


I've been lurking on this thread for a few weeks now, I remember a few folks predicting a cold spell in Mid-January, at last it is looking (almost) likely

SJV
04 January 2016 19:37:55

Good to see the chances of a cold spell, however short-lived it turns out to be, increasing with each run  As Ian says, it'll be even better to see UKMO on board nearer the event 

White Meadows
04 January 2016 19:38:51


It seems that for a change, all the models (GFS, ECM, NAVGEM and GEM) are in some kind of agreement with a change to colder conditions at around the 12th. That is a signal too strong to disregard.

However, 7 days is still a long way in forecasting terms so there'll be some chopping and changing as we get nearer to the time. All we need now is for it to come into UKMO's range.


Originally Posted by: idj20 

it would seem it already has, given ukmo written updates today.


SC - are you able to illustrate your thoughts with any links please? 


Edit: to be honest, I can't see any cold being longer lived than a couple of days with the ECM evolution. 

Ally Pally Snowman
04 January 2016 20:07:56


It still doesn't look likely this will be anything but a short albeit very cold blast from the North, the lobe of PV coming out of the Canadian sector will halt any height rises pushing towards Greenland.


Originally Posted by: Solar Cycles 


By day 10 though the GH is reflating again and the PV over Canada is being pushed back. Looks like a sustained cold spell is on the cards at day 10 to me.


 http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2401.html


 


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
White Meadows
04 January 2016 20:13:23


 


By day 10 though the GH is reflating again and the PV over Canada is being pushed back. Looks like a sustained cold spell is on the cards at day 10 to me.


 http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2401.html


 


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

Ever the optimist APS. You remind me of how I used to be, pre 2009

Gandalf The White
04 January 2016 20:15:28


It still doesn't look likely this will be anything but a short albeit very cold blast from the North, the lobe of PV coming out of the Canadian sector will halt any height rises pushing towards Greenland.


Originally Posted by: Solar Cycles 


You may be right but I wouldn't assume that the LP over eastern Canada (eastern Quebec) at day 10 is necessarily coming east.  There is a reasonable chance that it might head north - look at the WAA being pulled north ahead of it.


I wonder what a Day 11 chart would show?  I would guess that the slack LP over Iceland will run SE and that LP over Quebec will head up the western side of Greenland.  The dream scenario for cold weather fans would be a link up to the Arctic High - something that the GFS 06z this morning was showing.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


SnowyHythe(Kent)
04 January 2016 20:15:46
First post of the winter for me...

Do I spy the first Murr "sausage" or maybe a little obese chipolata on the ECM 240?

All the building blocks seem like taking shape for a cold spell and not a snap during the middle of January onwards..

Oh, and HNY to all you peeps..
Ally Pally Snowman
04 January 2016 20:30:58


Ever the optimist APS. You remind me of how I used to be, pre 2009


Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


I am an optimist most of the time I admit but there is room for optimism especially when you have ECM Mean charts like this.


 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2161.html


 


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Hippydave
04 January 2016 20:32:43


 


You may be right but I wouldn't assume that the LP over eastern Canada (eastern Quebec) at day 10 is necessarily coming east.  There is a reasonable chance that it might head north - look at the WAA being pulled north ahead of it.


I wonder what a Day 11 chart would show?  I would guess that the slack LP over Iceland will run SE and that LP over Quebec will head up the western side of Greenland.  The dream scenario for cold weather fans would be a link up to the Arctic High - something that the GFS 06z this morning was showing.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Pretty much what I thought too


Whether we get a toppler, snap, spell etc. is very much dependent on that WAA, how it's aligned and whether it encourages that HP further North and towards that lurking Arctic High. The Atlantic doesn't look like it's in full rampage mode to me which at least suggests any toppler would be a bit longer than the one day wonder type, may even get one of those repeating ridging scenarios with milder interludes.


It has been an interesting little flip on the GFS ens from milder to cold - be nice if it stays cold rather than flipping back


 


Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
Chiltern Blizzard
04 January 2016 20:36:36

I've not seen these means at day 8-10 since 2013... Too far out to have high confidence yet, but it's looking promising for cold...

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2402.html 

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2162.html 

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem1922.html 
Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
Joe Bloggs
04 January 2016 20:42:52

GEM is rather nice ;-) 


Not overly cold, but the synoptic setup in its latter stages really is something special. 



Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

Stormchaser
04 January 2016 20:46:33

No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.


Aha! That looks a bit more like what I'd expect to see in light of the signals at play for mid-late Jan. The control run is entertaining in some respects; first it has a shallow sliding low turning a standard toppler into a snowy outcome for some places (below-left), then it manages to turn the toppling ridge into the seed for a Scandi High that brings slack conditions with cold air stagnating across the UK. Not that snowy I realise, but it would be brass-monkeys cold with -6 to -10*C widely by night. 


No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour. No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.


 


I've posted that to highlight the alternative cold scenario that the GEFS seems to be playing with this evening. Scanning through the postage stamps, the second WAA attempt is further east than the ECM 12z op run has it on all but two GEFS members.


Despite their clustering on that path, it's not what I consider the most likely route, with a ridge to our NW fitting better with the teleconnection signal, but plausible enough should the second WAA attempt turn out to be in the middle of the Atlantic rather than heading for the west side of Greenland. I'm not used to being this bold in the face of some model guidance but at least it's GEFS I'm in disagreement with and not the ECM ensembles!


 


How I have missed marveling at cold charts and wondering if they'll come close to reality. It's also been too long a wait to try out the latest chart viewer tools with respect to a potential cold spell of note 


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

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Keep Calm and Forecast On
Arcus
04 January 2016 20:59:23


 


You may be right but I wouldn't assume that the LP over eastern Canada (eastern Quebec) at day 10 is necessarily coming east.  There is a reasonable chance that it might head north - look at the WAA being pulled north ahead of it.


I wonder what a Day 11 chart would show?  I would guess that the slack LP over Iceland will run SE and that LP over Quebec will head up the western side of Greenland.  The dream scenario for cold weather fans would be a link up to the Arctic High - something that the GFS 06z this morning was showing.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


A sensible and realistic post.


There's clearly changes a-foot in the mid-range that have their origins in the next few days. The key is how and where any Atlantic ridging occurs once the annoying Atlantic low shuffles eastward. Many, many, many options are being shown, and quite a few give a cold shot from the north. Some follow with cold from the east.


For me the key is the support from the Arctic high during that ridging process; - and our constant winter nemesis, the trough disruption south of Greenland.


A lot of NH views in the 168 to 240 period look like a Catherine wheel with LP displaced from the pole into four sectors around upper latitudes.


More Interesting Times Ahead. 


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
Ally Pally Snowman
04 January 2016 21:09:22

I've not seen these means at day 8-10 since 2013... Too far out to have high confidence yet, but it's looking promising for cold...

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2402.html

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2162.html

Originally Posted by: Chiltern Blizzard 

">http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem1922.html


 


The Mean charts are indeed sensational the Arctic High is just incredible and very unusual for this time of year.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reemnh2161.html


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
David M Porter
04 January 2016 21:26:26


 


You may be right but I wouldn't assume that the LP over eastern Canada (eastern Quebec) at day 10 is necessarily coming east.  There is a reasonable chance that it might head north - look at the WAA being pulled north ahead of it.


I wonder what a Day 11 chart would show?  I would guess that the slack LP over Iceland will run SE and that LP over Quebec will head up the western side of Greenland.  The dream scenario for cold weather fans would be a link up to the Arctic High - something that the GFS 06z this morning was showing.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


We'll never know one way or the other as the ECM op runs don't go any further ahead than 240hrs, but I imagine that if they did, then last night's ECM 12z op may well have showed something along the lines of the scenario you describe Peter. It was almost a bolt out of the blue for me, I must admit.


Whether or not the output we're now looking at actually verifies in reality, we've still to find out. That said, this is a good example of why before Christmas I was trying to advise others not to give up all hope of there being some kind of pattern change in January. We seem to have moved on a long way from the position of no-hope for cold we seemed to be in for ages almost right up to Xmas. As I said earlier, it is encouraging IMO to see the models at least contemplate the idea of a change, and before we reach what many people call deep FI as well.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
tallyho_83
04 January 2016 21:26:50
'From Russia with Love' - JFF:

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/cfs/runs/2016010318/run/cfs-0-360.png?00 

Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


nickl
04 January 2016 21:37:21
the extended ECM ens are certainly keen on maintaining the cold. assuming the ec32 follows suit, I expect the 6/15 dayer from Exeter overnight to flip cold.
nsrobins
04 January 2016 21:47:50

NCEP 8-14 day 500mb height anomalies:


http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/814day.03.gif


Now I'm officially interested.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Chiltern Blizzard
04 January 2016 21:49:06


 


We'll never know one way or the other as the ECM op runs don't go any further ahead than 240hrs, but I imagine that if they did, then last night's ECM 12z op may well have showed something along the lines of the scenario you describe Peter. It was almost a bolt out of the blue for me, I must admit.


Whether or not the output we're now looking at actually verifies in reality, we've still to find out. That said, this is a good example of why before Christmas I was trying to advise others not to give up all hope of there being some kind of pattern change in January. We seem to have moved on a long way from the position of no-hope for cold we seemed to be in for ages almost right up to Xmas. As I said earlier, it is encouraging IMO to see the models at least contemplate the idea of a change, and before we reach what many people call deep FI as well.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Indeed David, whether or not this 'cold spell' comes off, you were right to argue that extrapolating December into January (and indeed the whole winter in some cases) was foolish.


Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
Saint Snow
04 January 2016 21:51:20


How I have missed marveling at cold charts and wondering if they'll come close to reality.


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


 



There's some real stonking output being spewed by the models at the moment. Many a slip twixt cup & lip, etc, etc but like you say, lovely to watch.



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
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Aneurin Bevan
nsrobins
04 January 2016 21:56:50

And this just in from Twatter:


Ian Fergusson@fergieweather


W COUNTRY CONT'D However, (next week) 'snap' may prove improper lexicon, as it's anticipated to be a marked change in weather type & hemispheric pattern


 


The train is rolling folks lol


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Chichesterweatherfan2
04 January 2016 21:59:01
John Hammond just now...signs of a change next week...to colder weather,,,frosts, wintry showers and most significantly drier!

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