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Broadmayne Blizzard
21 January 2016 21:11:33
A concise and very well written post from Tamara
Formerly Blizzard of 78
nsrobins
21 January 2016 21:12:25

You can always rely on Jam Tamara to keep the spirits up. ECM short ens dont have any cold members

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


And in English? 😐


No disrespect to the post, but 90% of the members of this forum will not have a scooby of a chance of understanding any of that, and the other 10% will just pretend they understand it.


I'm all for a variety of contributions and sharing knowledge, but let's get real.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Gooner
21 January 2016 21:23:22


 


And in English? 😐


No disrespect to the post, but 90% of the members of this forum will not have a scooby of a chance of understanding any of that, and the other 10% will just pretend they understand it.


I'm all for a variety of contributions and sharing knowledge, but let's get real.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


I agree


The last sentence I get but most whhhhhooooooooooooooooooooossssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


SJV
21 January 2016 21:24:21


 


I agree


The last sentence I get but most whhhhhooooooooooooooooooooossssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


It's ok, I didn't understand Neil's post either 

Broadmayne Blizzard
21 January 2016 21:28:50
What a pity that disparaging posts appear in response to Tamara's contribution. No wonder she tends to post over on NW.
I don't have a Masters degree in Meteorology but I can understand what Tamara is writing about it just takes a bit of effort
at reading things in the strat threads etc.
Formerly Blizzard of 78
doctormog
21 January 2016 21:29:56
LOL! I would, for the first time in a very long time, recommend keeping an eye on the stratosphere in the the coming days. The warming looks very likely to happen and what happens afterwards will be worth monitoring.
doctormog
21 January 2016 22:03:32
Please stay on topic. Discussion of the stratosphere is perfectly valid in here discussion of other posters is not.
Solar Cycles
21 January 2016 22:06:57
The PV does look likely to be on the move but where exactly I'm not sure and I've an awful feeling we'll end up with its leftovers perched in the North Atlantic generating more of the same, albeit a cooler variety.
Saint Snow
21 January 2016 22:07:52


 Love the top chart, however; who wouldn't?


Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 


 


Me.


Bone dry IMBY. Need the high to be around 1,000 miles further north.



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Shropshire
21 January 2016 22:07:53
If anything that Tamara predicted actually came to pass, then she might get more respect. The problem with her and Glacier Point , is that undoubtedly however knowledgeable they are, they make broad scale predictions which may have some level of accuracy but don't actually lead to something that impacts on our little island.
From December 27th 2020, zonality will be banned from mixing with the UK. We appreciate that this may come as a shock to younger people and old Uncle Barty. This ban will last for a minimum of ten days.
Zubzero
21 January 2016 22:10:42

If anything that Tamara predicted actually came to pass, then she might get more respect. The problem with her and Glacier Point , is that undoubtedly however knowledgeable they are, they make broad scale predictions which may have some level of accuracy but don't actually lead to something that impacts on our little island.

Originally Posted by: Shropshire 


For once I agree with you 


Plus do they ever make long detailed post's pointing out the mild weather 

Saint Snow
21 January 2016 22:12:24


Plus do they ever make long detailed post's pointing out the mild weather 


Originally Posted by: Zubzero 


 


Given mild crap is the default norm, it's hardly difficult to say "it's likely to be mild"



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
doctormog
21 January 2016 22:12:41

If anything that Tamara predicted actually came to pass, then she might get more respect. The problem with her and Glacier Point , is that undoubtedly however knowledgeable they are, they make broad scale predictions which may have some level of accuracy but don't actually lead to something that impacts on our little island.

Originally Posted by: Shropshire 


 I though that post by Tamaa was about a forecast warming and its potential consequences? If that is the case of course it hasn't had an impact - in the same way as next week's weather front hasn't caused rain to fall on my garden this evening. 


Basically judge this prediction in a few weeks rather than prejudging it. I believe the warming is likely, I also think its potential impact cannot be predicted with a high level of confidence just yet.


Solar Cycles
21 January 2016 22:15:22

If anything that Tamara predicted actually came to pass, then she might get more respect. The problem with her and Glacier Point , is that undoubtedly however knowledgeable they are, they make broad scale predictions which may have some level of accuracy but don't actually lead to something that impacts on our little island.

Originally Posted by: Shropshire 

Indeed Ian and it's all very well looking at the bigger picture but there are so many other variables that effect our tiny island, that end up sticking two fingers up at all of these teleconnections and we end up still mild.

Bertwhistle
21 January 2016 22:15:46

What a pity that disparaging posts appear in response to Tamara's contribution. No wonder she tends to post over on NW.
I don't have a Masters degree in Meteorology but I can understand what Tamara is writing about it just takes a bit of effort
at reading things in the strat threads etc.

Originally Posted by: Broadmayne Blizzard 


The literary register is simply inappropriate for the purpose. Combining genre-styles can detract from the key purpose of the message. There is an awkward poetic attempt inter-threaded with a probability-linked scientific prognosis and a slightly prophetic Tolkeinsian register.


This is not irrelevant to a MOD by the way- this discusses the connection with the audience of the discussion.


Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
Quantum
21 January 2016 22:18:45

This is a double edged sword. Cold air is advecting off scandanavia into the ocean; not good at all. That will keep the heights low, but on the other side easterly winds will warm greenland up so encourage height rise there. I also like that -5C contour in the arctic; getting warm air very far north is a good thing. 


Netweather GFS Image


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Quantum
21 January 2016 22:22:35


 


 I though that post by Tamaa was about a forecast warming and its potential consequences? If that is the case of course it hasn't had an impact - in the same way as next week's weather front hasn't caused rain to fall on my garden this evening. 


Basically judge this prediction in a few weeks rather than prejudging it. I believe the warming is likely, I also think its potential impact cannot be predicted with a high level of confidence just yet.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


I honestly don't see why people have a problem with Tamara's post. Why can't this forum cater to people of all aptitudes? I think its ridiculous that people are complaining about the complexity of a post when they don't have to read it. If all the posts were like that then I would understand.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
picturesareme
21 January 2016 22:27:47


Copied over from NW as I know Ian has a resurgent interest in all things stratospheric, and I know Jive Buddy is a long-time admirer.


  The last sentence makes a practical lrf  for February based on  the detail that goes before it.


Tamara    12,604



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The final whites of the eyes of the resurgent vortex are now fully in focus of NWP modelling, ahead of eventual programmed momentum transport from Greenland to Siberia after this inauspicious end period of January to start of February timeframe.


Indian Ocean tropical signal is creating another 'noise response', such as it did in December ,over the well fused together ocean/atmosphere Nino base state. The reduced tendency in atmospheric angular momentum from the heady values of recently is temporarily scrubbing some of the massive surfeit of westerly wind anomalies across the Pacific and creating a very pseudo and transient Nina-like synoptic response.


Despite total budget AAM remaining high


gltotaam.sig.90day.gif


Only a very minor subtle shift of jet energy northwards across the US, but magnified greater by the interim strong vortex across Greenland to provide the very uninspiring flat westerly pattern downstream across the Atlantic of the next 10 days or so.  


As amplification starts to occur upstream in the Pacific, the net longwave tendency downstream is to retract the heights to our south and over Europe westwards into the Atlantic, and, with recent negative tendency in frictional torques as a manifestation of suppression of  relative AAM tendency, this has the effect of beefing up the Azores High.


This process is now well advertised in the 8 to 10 day modelling period.


Frictional torques have now bottomed out, and starting to trend up in recognition of the continuing low frequency Nino signal in the Pacific. This sets the floor limit for relative angular momentum before rising once again


gltauf.90day.gifgltend.sig.90day.gif


At the same time, the MJO is set to continue its eastwards movement through the Maritimes and then onwards to the Pacific during the course of the first half of February


ECMF_phase_51m_small.gifEMON_phase_MANOM_51m_small.gif.


 


We should be mindful that modelling of this activity beyond a few days will be unreliable, and likely in that respect that progress will be underestimated. This is especially as MJO related activity is usually increasingly active approaching the later winter and then early Spring periods. With displacement and considerable perturbment likely of the stratospheric vortex during the very first part of February, and another round of soaring angular momentum as the MJO arrives at Phases 5 and 6, with the tropical signal increasingly gaining amplitude, then increasing eastward and northward progress of poleward rossby wave activity arrives in the Atlantic as the signal engages the Pacific as it did during this month and associated cold spell.


Nino Region 1.2 (eastern region) continues to cool and assist the evolvement of a traditional later winter Nino cold pattern. With the vortex paying a price for its unwelcome re-staged party gate-crash of our winter, the scene is set for an increasingly amplified Atlantic profile leading to greater and greater blocking potential particularly later in the month. Both the long-wave pattern and Nino forcing look much better accorded to stronger and more defined heights over the NE Atlantic, southern Greenland and Iceland as the month progresses. Better than those seen this month, and with a stronger and more east based NAO profile


It looks good for steadily increasing polar vectors through NW, N and NE through the progress of the month - beginning with polar maritime incursions in the earliest part of the month and becoming progressively colder from there:)






Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


could maybe stormchaser translate this into slightly more layman terms? Please 😀 with a 🍒 on top 😂

David M Porter
21 January 2016 22:30:44


 


I honestly don't see why people have a problem with Tamara's post. Why can't this forum cater to people of all aptitudes? I think its ridiculous that people are complaining about the complexity of a post when they don't have to read it. If all the posts were like that then I would understand.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


I agree.


To be honest, I will admit that having just read Tamara's post, there were some parts of it that I didn't understand terribly well. But that doesn't in any way make it irrelevant to this thread. Tamara and others have been discussing something which on current evidence looks likely to take place which could have an impact on the model runs and the actual weather at a later time.


My understanding of all things to do with meteorology is probably pretty basic compared with that of some others posters, so who am I to put anyone down!


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
White Meadows
21 January 2016 22:37:00
The met office aren't supporting any dramatic switch to cold in Feb. Not yet anyway-
(From the 30 day outlook up to 19 February):

"...Temperatures are likely to remain close to or slightly above average through much of the period, but may fall just below normal by the middle of February."

Jonesy
21 January 2016 22:43:30

What a pity that disparaging posts appear in response to Tamara's contribution. No wonder she tends to post over on NW.
I don't have a Masters degree in Meteorology but I can understand what Tamara is writing about it just takes a bit of effort
at reading things in the strat threads etc.

Originally Posted by: Broadmayne Blizzard 


It's not all negative, it's given us a member posting for the first time, two posts from you that mention this Tamara lady....Welcome! Have to agree with the others though, it's very confusing for amateurs.


Medway Towns (Kent)
The Weather will do what it wants, when it wants, no matter what data is thrown at it !
nsrobins
21 January 2016 22:50:38

What a pity that disparaging posts appear in response to Tamara's contribution. No wonder she tends to post over on NW.
I don't have a Masters degree in Meteorology but I can understand what Tamara is writing about it just takes a bit of effort
at reading things in the strat threads etc.

Originally Posted by: Broadmayne Blizzard 


To be fair she didn't post in here - it was copied.


Being disparaging is not my aim. In fact after lengthy scrutiny I get the gist of what the author is trying to explain. What I am however is an exponent of sensible English and will criticise anyone who appears to use over-complex terminology when more sensible and widely understandable phrases will suffice. I am a scientist by profession and peer-review countless publications, and if I was presented with a piece like that it would be referred after the first paragraph. Sorry off topic but I have a right to reply (or maybe not).


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Karl Guille
21 January 2016 22:54:07
Certainly very little interest in a cold solution from 12z GEM, ECM and GFS ensembles save for that Maverick perturbation 7 on the GFS suite! Could be a frustrating period coming up as we look for signals for a change back to colder conditions and, in my case, that elusive easterly. Still yet to see sub zero temperatures this winter with 1.5 degrees being the closest we got the night before last! Oh well ...... bring on the GFS 18z ensembles!!
St. Sampson
Guernsey
Solar Cycles
21 January 2016 22:57:41


 


To be fair she didn't post in here - it was copied.


Being disparaging is not my aim. In fact after lengthy scrutiny I get the gist of what the author is trying to explain. What I am however is an exponent of sensible English and will criticise anyone who appears to use over-complex terminology when more sensible and widely understandable phrases will suffice. I am a scientist by profession and peer-review countless publications, and if I was presented with a piece like that it would be referred after the first paragraph. Sorry off topic but I have a right to reply (or maybe not).


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 

+1 It's a weather forum for mere amateurs and whilst complex posts are more than welcomed, simply English in explaining these wouldn't go amiss.

David M Porter
21 January 2016 23:09:31

The met office aren't supporting any dramatic switch to cold in Feb. Not yet anyway-
(From the 30 day outlook up to 19 February):

"...Temperatures are likely to remain close to or slightly above average through much of the period, but may fall just below normal by the middle of February."

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


Based on the models runs we are seeing at the moment, there is no reason for them to change their minds on likely developments any time soon.


If the models do begin to pick up on  change of pattern and then stick by it rigidly for a while, it is more likely that they will then alter their outlook to reflect this.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022

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