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Credit Crunch 3
Bugglesgate Offline
#1 Posted : 03 April 2010 16:01:47(UTC)

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 09/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,893

Still grim out there folks

Chris

Between Newbury and Basingstoke

DEW Offline
#2 Posted : 03 April 2010 17:19:24(UTC)

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 05/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 4,113
Location: Chichester

Grim for some: one Irene Rosenfeld has just received a pay rise of 41% to bring her annual salary to $26.3 million. By my calculation, if she had foregone her rise (never mind the basic salary) that alone would have been enough to pay the wages of all the workers at Keynsham who she has just sacked.

When two Englishmen meet, their first talk is of the weather - Dr. Samuel Johnson's Dictionary
brogdale Offline
#3 Posted : 03 April 2010 22:40:17(UTC)

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Joined: 16/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,761

DEW that's one of the key reasons she's got that rise

But its not only by sacking workers that Rosenfeld is going to squeeze even more profitability out of their new aquisition. In a masterclass of nasty, dehumanised super-capitalism Kraft are going to get the remaining UK workforce to "voluntarily" give up their right to a final salary pension. This despite a clause in cadbury's original trust deed that expressly precluded such an action that could change benefits to members that is actuarily judged to be unfair or materially detrimental.

Hence the need for a "voluntary" response from the workforce to accept a scheme with lower benefits to members/costs to Kraft. In order to pursuade the workforce of the merits of this change Rosenfeld's team have employed the not so subtle tactic of a threatened 3 year pay freeze

Kraft claim to have been unaware of the clause in the pension deed when the made the takeover Either the old Cadbury board have played a fast one, or the due diligence was shonky. Either way, the outcome is shocking for the workforce...as usual in these matters. But hey, well done Mrs rosenfeld on her pay hike

Jonny

Wallington, South London/Surrey (AOD 69m)


VOTE(D) LD, GOT TORIES :(
NOW IN OPPOSITION
Super Cell Offline
#4 Posted : 06 April 2010 10:11:32(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 04/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 7,166
Location: Pudsey, Leeds

And this from a country that didn't even go into recession.

This is what awaits if interest rates go up too fast too soon. And it will be worse in the UK, of that there is no doubt.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/...rld/americas/8604224.stm

Bugglesgate Offline
#5 Posted : 06 April 2010 12:30:07(UTC)

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 09/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,893

Super Cell wrote:

And this from a country that didn't even go into recession.

This is what awaits if interest rates go up too fast too soon. And it will be worse in the UK, of that there is no doubt.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/...rld/americas/8604224.stm

Indeed Simon.  I would certainly recommend folks take advantage of the current beneign (from the debtors point of view)  environment to reduce  capital sums owed.

Inflationary pressures are likley to be  felt here  irrespective of the state of the UK economy becuse of a depreciating Pound and  foreign  demand for commodities.

Chris

Between Newbury and Basingstoke

Saint Snow Offline
#6 Posted : 06 April 2010 13:38:58(UTC)

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 05/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,883
Location: St Helens

DEW wrote:

Grim for some: one Irene Rosenfeld has just received a pay rise of 41% to bring her annual salary to $26.3 million. By my calculation, if she had foregone her rise (never mind the basic salary) that alone would have been enough to pay the wages of all the workers at Keynsham who she has just sacked.

brogdale wrote:

DEW that's one of the key reasons she's got that rise

But its not only by sacking workers that Rosenfeld is going to squeeze even more profitability out of their new aquisition. In a masterclass of nasty, dehumanised super-capitalism Kraft are going to get the remaining UK workforce to "voluntarily" give up their right to a final salary pension. This despite a clause in cadbury's original trust deed that expressly precluded such an action that could change benefits to members that is actuarily judged to be unfair or materially detrimental.

Hence the need for a "voluntary" response from the workforce to accept a scheme with lower benefits to members/costs to Kraft. In order to pursuade the workforce of the merits of this change Rosenfeld's team have employed the not so subtle tactic of a threatened 3 year pay freeze

Kraft claim to have been unaware of the clause in the pension deed when the made the takeover Either the old Cadbury board have played a fast one, or the due diligence was shonky. Either way, the outcome is shocking for the workforce...as usual in these matters. But hey, well done Mrs rosenfeld on her pay hike

Those two posts summarise everything that is wrong with the world.

And remind me why I'm a socialist.

Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl)
Work: Manchester (75m asl)

Article 13199 of the Pan European constitution: `No person shall be prejudiced from employment in any capacity at any level by reason of age, race, creed, or incompitence'
Super Cell Offline
#7 Posted : 06 April 2010 14:10:31(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 04/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 7,166
Location: Pudsey, Leeds

Bugglesgate wrote:

Super Cell wrote:

And this from a country that didn't even go into recession.

This is what awaits if interest rates go up too fast too soon. And it will be worse in the UK, of that there is no doubt.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/...rld/americas/8604224.stm

Indeed Simon.  I would certainly recommend folks take advantage of the current beneign (from the debtors point of view)  environment to reduce  capital sums owed.

Inflationary pressures are likley to be  felt here  irrespective of the state of the UK economy becuse of a depreciating Pound and  foreign  demand for commodities.

The reality for most is that their biggest capital debt is their mortgage, and given the sums involved most people, starved of pay rises, are using the low interest rate regime to tread water. People on average incomes aren't going to be able to knock anything off their mortgages because the slack isn't there.

I'm talkiing about the run of the mill family here, rather than the young and old.

Bugglesgate Offline
#8 Posted : 06 April 2010 18:29:36(UTC)

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 09/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,893

Super Cell wrote:

Bugglesgate wrote:

Super Cell wrote:

And this from a country that didn't even go into recession.

This is what awaits if interest rates go up too fast too soon. And it will be worse in the UK, of that there is no doubt.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/...rld/americas/8604224.stm

Indeed Simon.  I would certainly recommend folks take advantage of the current benign (from the debtors point of view)  environment to reduce  capital sums owed.

Inflationary pressures are likely to be  felt here  irrespective of the state of the UK economy because of a depreciating Pound and  foreign  demand for commodities.

The reality for most is that their biggest capital debt is their mortgage, and given the sums involved most people, starved of pay rises, are using the low interest rate regime to tread water. People on average incomes aren't going to be able to knock anything off their mortgages because the slack isn't there.

I'm talking about the run of the mill family here, rather than the young and old.

You have a point Simon, but it's not restricted to families - I'm entering a 3rd year of no pay increase - but unlike  lot of folks in my industry, so far, I've managed to hold on to my job.   I would say though that for  the average situation, the tough regime of pay is only a year old, On a 100 Grand mortgage, there should still be  a  saving in interest more than   equal to sub inflation pay increments.   I can't   honestly see what else is keeping the retail parks so busy around here !

Chris

Between Newbury and Basingstoke

Super Cell Offline
#9 Posted : 07 April 2010 13:48:44(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 04/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 7,166
Location: Pudsey, Leeds

I'm talking about that vast rump of society - the family with a couple of kids. You and I both remarked last year that while inflation was virtually non existent in the statistical sense our food bills were shooting through the roof.

Add the cost of petrol, council tax (a 2.5% increase is something to jump up and down about with joy, apparently), increasing rates on credit card debts (to restore balamce sheets of the providers), the lack of pay rise actually means a lot of people aren't actually benefiting much from the low interest environment.

The funny thing about retail parks etc is that I suppose we expect them to be barren wastelands in a recession like this. Really though lost of people are in work, and are buying things. A 5% drop in retail sales would be horrendous, and yet that could be represented by just 5,000 less people visiting Bluewater (Assuming a figure of 100,000 footfall which could be way out). Could you tell if that was the case? 95,000 people is still an awful lot, after all. 

And that's the rub. When mortgage rates increase more people will be on base rate than was the case before the CC. It was about 11% then but with the lack of deals now available and the vastly higher eligibility criteria a large number of people are going to notice each increase...drip...drip...drip. When that drip gets to £100 a month, and pay hasn't increased, and petrol approaches 130p a litre etc etc...and the public sector is hit by redundancies at the same time...that's the explosive mix which any new government will have to manage. 

 

SEMerc Offline
#10 Posted : 07 April 2010 13:51:58(UTC)

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 7,696

Super Cell wrote:

And that's the rub. When mortgage rates increase more people will be on base rate than was the case before the CC. It was about 11% then but with the lack of deals now available and the vastly higher eligibility criteria a large number of people are going to notice each increase...drip...drip...drip. When that drip gets to £100 a month, and pay hasn't increased, and petrol approaches 130p a litre etc etc...and the public sector is hit by redundancies at the same time...that's the explosive mix which any new government will have to manage.

Yes, but that won't happen if Gordon is re-elected because his policies will ensure that the recovery is both assured and sustainable.

Fog in the Channel, Continent cut off.
Super Cell Offline
#11 Posted : 07 April 2010 14:07:06(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 04/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 7,166
Location: Pudsey, Leeds

Promise?

Charmhills Offline
#12 Posted : 07 April 2010 18:17:15(UTC)

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 05/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,198
Location: Loughborough UK

SEMerc wrote:

Super Cell wrote:

And that's the rub. When mortgage rates increase more people will be on base rate than was the case before the CC. It was about 11% then but with the lack of deals now available and the vastly higher eligibility criteria a large number of people are going to notice each increase...drip...drip...drip. When that drip gets to £100 a month, and pay hasn't increased, and petrol approaches 130p a litre etc etc...and the public sector is hit by redundancies at the same time...that's the explosive mix which any new government will have to manage.

Yes, but that won't happen if Gordon is re-elected because his policies will ensure that the recovery is both assured and sustainable.



Duane.

Loughborough, North Leic, East Midlands.
nickl Offline
#13 Posted : 07 April 2010 19:31:01(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 05/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,933

note that IOD survey shows optimism in the service sector and pretty poor in manufacturing. if we take the upturn in the service sector to be a consequence of the upturn in the manufacturing sector that we saw Q4 2009, the lack of forward movement in manufacturing Q1 2010 (despite good march purchsg managers survey) will likely lead to a fall off in the service sector Q3 and Q4 2010. amazing to see the OECD forecasting decent UK growth second half 2010 when the eurozone is now showing no growth Q4 2009 following the slow pick up Q2/Q3 2009. methinks the OECD are beind the curve. doesnt feel great out there.

Bugglesgate Offline
#14 Posted : 08 April 2010 17:16:25(UTC)

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 09/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,893

 

Super Cell wrote:

, and petrol approaches 130p a litre

 

I think you are conservative in your prediction  Simon.  It has been over 120 around here for a while,  and today it has been announced that it has reached 119.9 on average nationally - A  new  record high  - where is the little green  "dead" icon when you need him ??  This  really doesn't have the same impact !

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8609542.stm

Chris

Between Newbury and Basingstoke

Maunder Minimum Offline
#15 Posted : 08 April 2010 17:48:52(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 08/09/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,686

Bugglesgate wrote:

 

Super Cell wrote:

, and petrol approaches 130p a litre

 

I think you are conservative in your prediction  Simon.  It has been over 120 around here for a while,  and today it has been announced that it has reached 119.9 on average nationally - A  new  record high  - where is the little green  "dead" icon when you need him ??  This  really doesn't have the same impact !

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8609542.stm

Where are the fuel protestors when they are needed?

Petrol prices hit record high

Public spending cuts now, are a result of Brown's lack of prudence as Chancellor and PM.
mbrothers Offline
#16 Posted : 08 April 2010 18:55:09(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 23/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 267

Maunder Minimum wrote:

Bugglesgate wrote:

 

Super Cell wrote:

, and petrol approaches 130p a litre

 

I think you are conservative in your prediction  Simon.  It has been over 120 around here for a while,  and today it has been announced that it has reached 119.9 on average nationally - A  new  record high  - where is the little green  "dead" icon when you need him ??  This  really doesn't have the same impact !

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8609542.stm

Where are the fuel protestors when they are needed?

Petrol prices hit record high

most of the hauliers who protested now have bases in europe so avoid filling up in this rotten country.

nouska Offline
#17 Posted : 08 April 2010 20:44:03(UTC)

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 05/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,282
Location: SW France

Latest figures show the UK to be middle of the main European pack on petrol prices but way ahead on diesel - why is that? The graph doesn't include Spain where the prices are around a third cheaper than in France.

The prices here are way ahead of what we had when oil was near $150 a barrel and home heating oil is now a jaw dropping 70cents a litre.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/e.../prices.html#Distillate

Ulric Offline
#18 Posted : 09 April 2010 23:25:38(UTC)

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 14/12/2006(UTC)
Posts: 4,992
Location: Baldock, Herts

Here it comes....

http://blogs.telegraph.c...rices-at-the-pumps-soar/

Climate is what you expect and weather is what you get...
Bugglesgate Offline
#19 Posted : 10 April 2010 03:14:40(UTC)

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 09/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,893

 

Yes, this is becoming an issue.  I have a relatively small commute, but my weekly outgoing on road fuel has now become a bill of some consequence.   This is bound to eat into disposable income and the ability of people to save at a time of low wage increases and pay freezes.  Naturally it also knocks on to increased costs for business and a general rise in prices. 

 

Under these circumstances it is insanity for Govt. to keep "loading" tax onto fuel - This milk cow has definitely run dry

Chris

Between Newbury and Basingstoke

Retron Offline
#20 Posted : 10 April 2010 07:04:11(UTC)
Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 05/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 7,083
Location: Leysdown-on-Sea

Maunder Minimum wrote:

Where are the fuel protestors when they are needed?

Petrol prices hit record high

It was tied in with the Tories last time, who said they'd reduce fuel duty if they got in the following year. This time the Tories are openly saying they'll raise fuel duty even more than Labour are doing - ergo the masses have nothing to achieve by protesting.

I'm still surprised neither Labour nor the Tories have popped up and offered a token cut in fuel duty, such a move would get them quite a few votes regardless of what happens afterwards!

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