This does not affect just us, the whole world has been affected and they too have strong reliances on China. But, I can see many countries uniting against China, doing things differently, manufacture their own goods in time, treat the Chinese like lepers and cut them off. The danger there though is isolating China so much so they retaliate if they start to drown on their own stock they can't sell.

Watched an interesting video the other day on the 'Bubonic plague'  What stood out is that the first wave of this apparently originated in Wuhan. 

The 'EU Titanic' is not going to sink. That's an illusion believed by the more desperate elements of the Brexit movement.

I'm curious that you're still fixated by this, given your antipathy towards China (with which I concur). If we're turning our back on our European partners (which we are, however much some Brexiteers try to pretend the antipathy doesn't extend beyond the EU) then distancing ourselves from China as well rather limits our horizons.

I had hoped that Covid-19 might force a rethink but it seems some aspects of our future role remain beyond challenge.

I find that disappointing. 

Only if Wuhan is another name for Sweden 


https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/12/4900-year-old-case-plague-sweden/577315/

One thing which I reckon is almost certain to happen now is that there will have to be an extension of the Brexit transition period beyond the end of this year, at which point it was originally meant to end.

For me, this whole disastrous episode illustrates, to me anyway, that we need the EU more than ever now. China has shown that it is a nation that cannot be trusted in any way, and I really think that some long and hard thinking needs to be done, not just in this country but many other countries in the western world.

The EU and the way it operates may not be perfect, but my god after this I would always trust the EU over China.

Bloody Swedes not lockdowning properly even back then!

Its me with one of my polls/views from outside the forum. A big net positive for the government but interestingly most people are in the 'fairly well' group rather than in the 'very well' group.  

68% of Britons say that the Government are handling the coronavirus outbreak well. This is up from 64% when asked last week https://t.co/MlSEJaPXZ1 pic.twitter.com/1QXFsUcJYS

— YouGov (@YouGov) April 14, 2020

Canadian report. It's snowing Spring can be quite a varied season here!. Generally I love the snow, but by now I'm done with it. Bring on summer.

My better half has just been for weekly provisions. We are finding a combination of a small amount of fresh stuff from a local supermarket combined with a large pickup order from Walmart (where someone in gloves drops the stuff in your car) is working fine. No obvious issues getting things.

Chatting to a local guy I know down by the lake earlier. Well, shouting really as we were about 4 m apart... "Don't get this lockdown. I'm old and I have health conditions. Lock me up, I don't mind, let the young people get on with their lives." So there you go...!

Trudeau saying we are weeks away from lockdown lift

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid19-restrictions-lockdown-1.5531482

I understand that he's being cautious but it's in danger of just sounding like general waffle at the expense of any content. At some point he's going to need to come up with something more specific, which will be tough. I've already noticed more snarky comments online about it being easy to quarantine at Rideau Cottage - justified or not the public mood could shift particularly as the job losses start to bite.

I think whilst it's going on, most people will fall into line. It's afterwards when the questioning will kick in and the shortfalls evaluated properly.

I was listening to Sunak earlier and, whilst I agree with him that laying out now how the eye-watering costs of this CV will subsequently be met is far too premature (any hint will be grabbed by both journalists looking for sensationalism, and financial shysters looking to make a killing), I'm getting more worried that the cost will be lumped onto taxpayers, with already cash-starved public services also facing further cuts. I'd rather the costs be met with 'helicopter money'. As they'd just be replacing lost productivity that would otherwise have generated GDP, the inflationary impact would likely be somewhat mitigated.

Do you know what, there have been so many things that have surprised me that have happened in the world lately, I would not discount anything. I believe Europeans can find a way of uniting in or out the EU, or without the EU. I believe the world has now seen that China has shown its true colours and grown into a powerful force, a beast that knows no boundaries. It has 'got too big for itself', too powerful, and treated the world with contempt. The only way back is to make them poorer, don't buy their goods, make it more a level playing field, isolate them. Trouble is they won't like that after enjoying such good fortune for so long, and it'll be a fine line to avert war.

I sense we are already trying to capitalise on this.. Haven't the government already said they want to mass produce things like ventilators so we have enough and enough to 'export'  

I believe we will still trade with the EU David, transition or not. As you say China has raised its head as the big bad entity and it will be them +North Korea versus the rest of the world. Their actions and behaviour will unite the world against them when the time is right. 

You’re right, I don’t know that the EU will survive; but neither do you know it will implode. I think the evidence is on my side in this; it would be wrong, IMO, to confuse periodic tensions with a fundamental flaw.

With the centre of economic and financial might ebbing away from Europe (and the USA) now really isn’t a good time to destroy alliances and relationships that, fundamentally, work.

Again, on China I agree with the general thrust of your argument. But I’m not sure that war will feature until China miscalculates. Ultimately China would be the loser; I’m sure it knows that. Why would you risk much of what you’ve achieved when there are other more subtle approaches?

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/01/deadly-worldwide-outbreaks-originated-animals-200123023649596.html

"The Black Death, an epidemic of bubonic plague, killed an estimated 25 million people, starting from China and spreading to Europe, starting from 1334 to the late 1340s.

Throughout history, there have been three main forms of plague: Bubonic, septicaemic and pneumonic. They are caused by the bacteria Yersinia pestis found in small mammals and their fleas".