So, are you saying that you think the UK should have adopted the Swedish approach?

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

No, I am saying that the media are wrong to describe Sweden's approach as business as usual. It's still too early to judge the success of their approach, but so far they are doing significantly worse than their neighbours and peers. 

Originally Posted by: xioni2 

Yes, the Swedish approach is much more nuanced than given credit by our media

• Food serving at the bar and queueing are not allowed


• The distance between tables has been increased


• Serving of cold food is not allowed


• All serving plates have to be hot

Originally Posted by: xioni2 

If these rules were mandatorily put in place here in the uk it might be possible for restaurants to open sooner here.

Gove`s comments about hospitality being one of the last things allowed to re-open will mean there won`t be much of a hospitality sector left to re-open! The vast majority of pubs,restaurants and hotels will go bust long before December leading to huge unemployment and mass bankruptcies.There will be economic carnage!

Originally Posted by: springsunshine 

Yes, the Swedish approach is much more nuanced than given credit by our media:

• mass events were banned on March 11


• Food serving at the bar and queueing are not allowed


• The distance between tables has been increased


• Serving of cold food is not allowed


• All serving plates have to be hot

Originally Posted by: xioni2 

I don't understand the benefit of the last two requirements. What if you just want a salad or something else that might usually be served cold?

Originally Posted by: westv 

I think that is the correct way to judge it. Both Norway and Denmark locked down, closed their borders and went for the hard route, whilst Sweden has taken the softly, softly approach. On the face of it, the Swedish infection and death rates are far worse than those for their comparable neighbours - however, they could be justified in the longer term if the reduction in damage to their economy means people as a whole do better.

There is always a trade off between saving lives in an epidemic and in saving livelihoods. The instant response is that lives must be saved at all costs - but at what cost?

Only time will tell and the Swedish experiment will be an additional factor in the "lessons learnt" department.

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

Heat can kill the virus? 

Doesn't make a lot of sense when you still allow postal and other deliveries where virus can survive on paper and card anyway

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

I think that is the correct way to judge it. Both Norway and Denmark locked down, closed their borders and went for the hard route, whilst Sweden has taken the softly, softly approach. On the face of it, the Swedish infection and death rates are far worse than those for their comparable neighbours - however, they could be justified in the longer term if the reduction in damage to their economy means people as a whole do better.

There is always a trade off between saving lives in an epidemic and in saving livelihoods. The instant response is that lives must be saved at all costs - but at what cost?

Only time will tell and the Swedish experiment will be an additional factor in the "lessons learnt" department.

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

Pakistan partially resumes flight operations for UK

Quote

Pakistan International Airlines has partially resumed its UK flight operation at the directive of the Federal Minister for Aviation Ghulam Sarwar Khan. According to spokesman PIA, flights will be operated daily from 19 April to Lahore and Islamabad to London, Manchester, Birmingham. The PIA spokesperson said that the permission was given after assurance that all safety measures will be implemented.

https://www.brecorder.com/2020/04/18/590455/pakistan-partially-resumes-flight-operations-for-uk/

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Originally Posted by: Gavin D 

Perhaps you (and, I see, others of a similar view) can prepare a list of the human lives to be sacrificed for the good of the economy?

Your own (and other) excuses why you shouldn't be on the list should be interesting...My excuse is I don't want to die yet - I don't think it's an unreasonable answer for anyone (yourself included) to give.

Originally Posted by: Devonian 

14,106 tests to 9am

4,676 positive from pillar 1 & 2

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 

Pakistan partially resumes flight operations for UK

Quote

Pakistan International Airlines has partially resumed its UK flight operation at the directive of the Federal Minister for Aviation Ghulam Sarwar Khan. According to spokesman PIA, flights will be operated daily from 19 April to Lahore and Islamabad to London, Manchester, Birmingham. The PIA spokesperson said that the permission was given after assurance that all safety measures will be implemented.

https://www.brecorder.com/2020/04/18/590455/pakistan-partially-resumes-flight-operations-for-uk/

​

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 

FFS

Pakistan and India should be totally closed off. We may as well unfurl a red carpet for another surge of coronavirus infections.

This is utter madness.

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

Update showing the correlation between date of death and notification date for England, up to today.

Updated pivot-table 20/04 at 2PM for NHS England hospital daily deaths on day they occurred, built up by day reported. Another very low day, but will we see the big post-weekend-lag catchup tomorrow? pic.twitter.com/WHhogJWD8O

— RP 13 (@RP131) April 20, 2020

Originally Posted by: Darren S 

Perhaps you (and, I see, others of a similar view) can prepare a list of the human lives to be sacrificed for the good of the economy?

Your own (and other) excuses why you shouldn't be on the list should be interesting...My excuse is I don't want to die yet - I don't think it's an unreasonable answer for anyone (yourself included) to give.

Originally Posted by: Devonian 

Yes beggars belief. They should at least be quaranteed for 2 weeks as standard.

In addition, as mentioned already there are plenty of private jets visible on sites going back and forth, from everywhere. Unlikely they are being challenged in anyway either. 

Originally Posted by: Phil G 

14,106 tests to 9am

4,676 positive from pillar 1 & 2

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 

I think Richard is over 65. I would imagine he would willingly sacrifice himself so that the younger and healthier generations can resume the normal economic activity he ranks as so important. It would be a noble and selfless gesture.

Originally Posted by: Justin W 

The fact is that lives are traded off against the economy and a whole host of other things all the time. Nearly 2000 people died in road traffic accidents in the UK last year. If all road vehicles were prevented from travelling over 20 mph, I am sure that those deaths would be reduced to close to zero. Yet nobody is calling for any such speed reduction. Society clearly considers a certain amount of road deaths acceptable in return for speed of travel. 

Similarly, if income tax rates were raised by 10% and that money put into the health service, undoubtedly this would save lives. However, electorates clearly feel  that the current amounts being proposed by political parties for health expenditure are satisfactory - there is no public clamour for any such massive increase in spending. Again, a trade off between money in the pocket and money spent on saving lives.

Now, I'm not saying when I think that the current anti-Covid measures ought to be relaxed. I'm merely saying that a balance needs to be found somewhere and that we find these balances all the time on all sorts of matters.  

Originally Posted by: Lionel Hutz 

I think Richard is over 65. I would imagine he would willingly sacrifice himself so that the younger and healthier generations can resume the normal economic activity he ranks as so important. It would be a noble and selfless gesture.

Originally Posted by: Justin W