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xioni2
20 April 2020 14:22:29


So, are you saying that you think the UK should have adopted the Swedish approach?


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


No, I am saying that the media are wrong to describe Sweden's approach as business as usual. It's still too early to judge the success of their approach, but so far they are doing significantly worse than their neighbours and peers. 

Maunder Minimum
20 April 2020 14:29:02


 


No, I am saying that the media are wrong to describe Sweden's approach as business as usual. It's still too early to judge the success of their approach, but so far they are doing significantly worse than their neighbours and peers


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


I think that is the correct way to judge it. Both Norway and Denmark locked down, closed their borders and went for the hard route, whilst Sweden has taken the softly, softly approach. On the face of it, the Swedish infection and death rates are far worse than those for their comparable neighbours - however, they could be justified in the longer term if the reduction in damage to their economy means people as a whole do better.


There is always a trade off between saving lives in an epidemic and in saving livelihoods. The instant response is that lives must be saved at all costs - but at what cost?


Only time will tell and the Swedish experiment will be an additional factor in the "lessons learnt" department.


 


New world order coming.
springsunshine
20 April 2020 14:30:16


 


Yes, the Swedish approach is much more nuanced than given credit by our media



  • Food serving at the bar and queueing are not allowed

  • The distance between tables has been increased

  • Serving of cold food is not allowed

  • All serving plates have to be hot


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


If these rules were mandatorily put in place here in the uk it might be possible for restaurants to open sooner here.


Gove`s comments about hospitality being one of the last things allowed to re-open will mean there won`t be much of a hospitality sector left to re-open! The vast majority of pubs,restaurants and hotels will go bust long before December leading to huge unemployment and mass bankruptcies.There will be economic carnage!

The Beast from the East
20 April 2020 14:45:01


 


If these rules were mandatorily put in place here in the uk it might be possible for restaurants to open sooner here.


Gove`s comments about hospitality being one of the last things allowed to re-open will mean there won`t be much of a hospitality sector left to re-open! The vast majority of pubs,restaurants and hotels will go bust long before December leading to huge unemployment and mass bankruptcies.There will be economic carnage!


Originally Posted by: springsunshine 


Yes, once some US states come out of lockdown on May 1st, and we see infections rates continue to fall across Europe, the pressure on our Govt will increase to the level  they cannot ignore


Sky had a report from Cornwall showing how most businesses rely on tourism and if they don't open for the Summer, they will be lost forever. A case of the cure being worse than the disease. What's the point of living if you don't have a livelihood


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
westv
20 April 2020 14:45:25


 


Yes, the Swedish approach is much more nuanced than given credit by our media:



  • mass events were banned on March 11

  • Food serving at the bar and queueing are not allowed

  • The distance between tables has been increased

  • Serving of cold food is not allowed

  • All serving plates have to be hot


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


I don't understand the benefit of the last two requirements. What if you just want a salad or something else that might usually be served cold?


At least it will be mild!
The Beast from the East
20 April 2020 14:47:25


 


I don't understand the benefit of the last two requirements. What if you just want a salad or something else that might usually be served cold?


Originally Posted by: westv 


Heat can kill the virus? 


Doesn't make a lot of sense when you still allow postal and other deliveries where virus can survive on paper and card anyway


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Chunky Pea
20 April 2020 14:47:50


 


I think that is the correct way to judge it. Both Norway and Denmark locked down, closed their borders and went for the hard route, whilst Sweden has taken the softly, softly approach. On the face of it, the Swedish infection and death rates are far worse than those for their comparable neighbours - however, they could be justified in the longer term if the reduction in damage to their economy means people as a whole do better.


There is always a trade off between saving lives in an epidemic and in saving livelihoods. The instant response is that lives must be saved at all costs - but at what cost?


Only time will tell and the Swedish experiment will be an additional factor in the "lessons learnt" department.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


It is true that Sweden is not doing great, but mortality rate per 100,000 (15) is still significantly lower than that of France, the UK, Spain, Italy, Belgium and the Netherlands, which sport a combined mortality average of 34 per 100,000. 


Edit to above latter figure, that should read a combined average mortality rate of 37 per 100,000 as opposed to 34.  


Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
westv
20 April 2020 14:53:09


 


Heat can kill the virus? 


Doesn't make a lot of sense when you still allow postal and other deliveries where virus can survive on paper and card anyway


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


How hot does a plate need to be before the virus has been killed?


The postal thing is easily sorted by washing your hands afterwards.


At least it will be mild!
Devonian
20 April 2020 14:56:38


 


I think that is the correct way to judge it. Both Norway and Denmark locked down, closed their borders and went for the hard route, whilst Sweden has taken the softly, softly approach. On the face of it, the Swedish infection and death rates are far worse than those for their comparable neighbours - however, they could be justified in the longer term if the reduction in damage to their economy means people as a whole do better.


There is always a trade off between saving lives in an epidemic and in saving livelihoods. The instant response is that lives must be saved at all costs - but at what cost?


Only time will tell and the Swedish experiment will be an additional factor in the "lessons learnt" department.


 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Perhaps you (and, I see, others of a similar view) can prepare a list of the human lives to be sacrificed for the good of the economy?


Your own (and other) excuses why you shouldn't be on the list should be interesting...My excuse is I don't want to die yet - I don't think it's an unreasonable answer for anyone (yourself included) to give.


 

Gavin D
20 April 2020 15:02:58

Pakistan partially resumes flight operations for UK


 




Quote


Pakistan International Airlines has partially resumed its UK flight operation at the directive of the Federal Minister for Aviation Ghulam Sarwar Khan. According to spokesman PIA, flights will be operated daily from 19 April to Lahore and Islamabad to London, Manchester, Birmingham. The PIA spokesperson said that the permission was given after assurance that all safety measures will be implemented.





https://www.brecorder.com/2020/04/18/590455/pakistan-partially-resumes-flight-operations-for-uk/


Darren S
20 April 2020 15:12:03

Update showing the correlation between date of death and notification date for England, up to today.




Darren
Crowthorne, Berks (87m asl)
South Berks Winter Snow Depth Totals:
2023/24 0 cm; 2022/23 7 cm; 2021/22 1 cm; 2020/21 13 cm; 2019/20 0 cm; 2018/19 14 cm; 2017/18 23 cm; 2016/17 0 cm; 2015/16 0.5 cm; 2014/15 3.5 cm; 2013/14 0 cm; 2012/13 22 cm; 2011/12 7 cm; 2010/11 6 cm; 2009/10 51 cm
Saint Snow
20 April 2020 15:21:58


Pakistan partially resumes flight operations for UK


 




Quote


Pakistan International Airlines has partially resumed its UK flight operation at the directive of the Federal Minister for Aviation Ghulam Sarwar Khan. According to spokesman PIA, flights will be operated daily from 19 April to Lahore and Islamabad to London, Manchester, Birmingham. The PIA spokesperson said that the permission was given after assurance that all safety measures will be implemented.





https://www.brecorder.com/2020/04/18/590455/pakistan-partially-resumes-flight-operations-for-uk/



Originally Posted by: Gavin D 


 


FFS


Pakistan and India should be totally closed off. We may as well unfurl a red carpet for another surge of coronavirus infections.


This is utter madness.



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Gavin D
20 April 2020 15:24:40
449 new deaths in the UK down from 596 yesterday
Lionel Hutz
20 April 2020 15:28:30


 


Perhaps you (and, I see, others of a similar view) can prepare a list of the human lives to be sacrificed for the good of the economy?


Your own (and other) excuses why you shouldn't be on the list should be interesting...My excuse is I don't want to die yet - I don't think it's an unreasonable answer for anyone (yourself included) to give.


 


Originally Posted by: Devonian 


The fact is that lives are traded off against the economy and a whole host of other things all the time. Nearly 2000 people died in road traffic accidents in the UK last year. If all road vehicles were prevented from travelling over 20 mph, I am sure that those deaths would be reduced to close to zero. Yet nobody is calling for any such speed reduction. Society clearly considers a certain amount of road deaths acceptable in return for speed of travel. 


Similarly, if income tax rates were raised by 10% and that money put into the health service, undoubtedly this would save lives. However, electorates clearly feel  that the current amounts being proposed by political parties for health expenditure are satisfactory - there is no public clamour for any such massive increase in spending. Again, a trade off between money in the pocket and money spent on saving lives.


Now, I'm not saying when I think that the current anti-Covid measures ought to be relaxed. I'm merely saying that a balance needs to be found somewhere and that we find these balances all the time on all sorts of matters.  


Lionel Hutz
Nr.Waterford , S E Ireland
68m ASL



Gavin D
20 April 2020 15:28:46
14,106 tests to 9am

4,676 positive from pillar 1 & 2

Gavin D
20 April 2020 15:32:48

14,106 tests to 9am

4,676 positive from pillar 1 & 2

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 


 


Confirmed rate for positive tests is 36.69%

westv
20 April 2020 15:34:10


Pakistan partially resumes flight operations for UK


 




Quote


Pakistan International Airlines has partially resumed its UK flight operation at the directive of the Federal Minister for Aviation Ghulam Sarwar Khan. According to spokesman PIA, flights will be operated daily from 19 April to Lahore and Islamabad to London, Manchester, Birmingham. The PIA spokesperson said that the permission was given after assurance that all safety measures will be implemented.





https://www.brecorder.com/2020/04/18/590455/pakistan-partially-resumes-flight-operations-for-uk/



Originally Posted by: Gavin D 


The rescue flights mentioned here?


https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-thousands-of-britons-to-be-brought-home-on-rescue-flights-from-south-asia-11975311


 


At least it will be mild!
Phil G
20 April 2020 15:36:28


 


 


FFS


Pakistan and India should be totally closed off. We may as well unfurl a red carpet for another surge of coronavirus infections.


This is utter madness.


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


Yes beggars belief. They should at least be quaranteed for 2 weeks as standard.


In addition, as mentioned already there are plenty of private jets visible on sites going back and forth, from everywhere. Unlikely they are being challenged in anyway either. 

Gandalf The White
20 April 2020 15:38:55


Update showing the correlation between date of death and notification date for England, up to today.




Originally Posted by: Darren S 


This is one of the more interesting charts.


It's noticeable that a significantly higher number of deaths are reported two days after the event than the following day; typically twice as many and often more. Also, the relationship between the Day 1 and final total for that day has gone from around six times (once or twice even more) down to around four times now.


The trend downwards is quite evident now, which, lagging indicator or not, is good news.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Justin W
20 April 2020 15:40:47


 


Perhaps you (and, I see, others of a similar view) can prepare a list of the human lives to be sacrificed for the good of the economy?


Your own (and other) excuses why you shouldn't be on the list should be interesting...My excuse is I don't want to die yet - I don't think it's an unreasonable answer for anyone (yourself included) to give.


 


Originally Posted by: Devonian 


I think Richard is over 65. I would imagine he would willingly sacrifice himself so that the younger and healthier generations can resume the normal economic activity he ranks as so important. It would be a noble and selfless gesture.


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
Gandalf The White
20 April 2020 15:41:25


 


Yes beggars belief. They should at least be quaranteed for 2 weeks as standard.


In addition, as mentioned already there are plenty of private jets visible on sites going back and forth, from everywhere. Unlikely they are being challenged in anyway either. 


Originally Posted by: Phil G 


I wonder if any journalists will ask that question in today's briefing.


Presumably these flights are returning to Pakistan empty as everyone is being told to stay at home.....  It's a bit of a stretch to claim a trip to Lahore or Islamabad is 'essential'.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Darren S
20 April 2020 15:42:09

14,106 tests to 9am

4,676 positive from pillar 1 & 2

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 


3,023 from pillar 1 (8,250 tested)
1,653 from pillar 2 (5,856 tested)


https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public#number-of-cases-and-deaths


That's the lowest pillar 1 total since March 31st.


 


Darren
Crowthorne, Berks (87m asl)
South Berks Winter Snow Depth Totals:
2023/24 0 cm; 2022/23 7 cm; 2021/22 1 cm; 2020/21 13 cm; 2019/20 0 cm; 2018/19 14 cm; 2017/18 23 cm; 2016/17 0 cm; 2015/16 0.5 cm; 2014/15 3.5 cm; 2013/14 0 cm; 2012/13 22 cm; 2011/12 7 cm; 2010/11 6 cm; 2009/10 51 cm
Gandalf The White
20 April 2020 15:42:45


 


I think Richard is over 65. I would imagine he would willingly sacrifice himself so that the younger and healthier generations can resume the normal economic activity he ranks as so important. It would be a noble and selfless gesture.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


🤣🤣


Be careful you don't cut yourself with your tongue, Justin.


😉😉


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Chunky Pea
20 April 2020 15:43:45


 


The fact is that lives are traded off against the economy and a whole host of other things all the time. Nearly 2000 people died in road traffic accidents in the UK last year. If all road vehicles were prevented from travelling over 20 mph, I am sure that those deaths would be reduced to close to zero. Yet nobody is calling for any such speed reduction. Society clearly considers a certain amount of road deaths acceptable in return for speed of travel. 


Similarly, if income tax rates were raised by 10% and that money put into the health service, undoubtedly this would save lives. However, electorates clearly feel  that the current amounts being proposed by political parties for health expenditure are satisfactory - there is no public clamour for any such massive increase in spending. Again, a trade off between money in the pocket and money spent on saving lives.


Now, I'm not saying when I think that the current anti-Covid measures ought to be relaxed. I'm merely saying that a balance needs to be found somewhere and that we find these balances all the time on all sorts of matters.  


Originally Posted by: Lionel Hutz 


All very true, though I suppose we have think in terms of magnitude. 2000 road deaths within a year (awful in itself) vs over 16,000 deaths in the UK over just the last couple of months from Covid. 


Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
Quantum
20 April 2020 15:43:52


 


I think Richard is over 65. I would imagine he would willingly sacrifice himself so that the younger and healthier generations can resume the normal economic activity he ranks as so important. It would be a noble and selfless gesture.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


Our economy is going to get expunged regardless of what we do. We might aswell save as many lives as we can.


Imo we should aim to get this virus under control as fast as we can and build up the infrastructure to keep it under control. Once we have done that we can relax restrictions.


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.

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