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Brian Gaze
03 May 2020 06:14:23

More problems caused by C19 identified. 


Coronavirus: 'Covid toe' and other rashes puzzle doctors


 


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52493574


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Sevendust
03 May 2020 07:05:39

Wrong date Brian!

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
03 May 2020 07:10:44


Wrong date Brian!


Originally Posted by: Sevendust 


Corrected - this has been my nightmare when setting up these daily threads


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
03 May 2020 07:25:38


If there was no cover-up, why the hell were the Chinese authorities back at that time going out of their way to bully and intimidate the medics in their country who were trying to raise the alarm about the seriousness of the disease?


 


If the Chinese had been 100% honest and upfront with the WHO from the time they realised that something was seriously wrong and had not tried to mislead them, the WHO would very likely have declared an international health emergency long before they did, which was the end of January.


David M Porter wrote:


I think it's a mistake to view 'China' as a monolithic state, however much it may want to be so.


My reading of this is that the authorities in Wuhan were scared stiff of losing face in the eye of the CCP in Beijing, and tried to mount a cover-up. When this no loner worked , and the situation became all to clear the central power of the state took over and put appropriate measures very quickly.


So criticism of China should be directed at the political system at its weakest point, the reluctance of regional authorities to admit anything is wrong in their region for fear of offending the central party organisation. Maybe you see this as a distinction without a difference?


 


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Gandalf The White
03 May 2020 08:02:58


 


I think it's a mistake to view 'China' as a monolithic state, however much it may want to be so.


My reading of this is that the authorities in Wuhan were scared stiff of losing face in the eye of the CCP in Beijing, and tried to mount a cover-up. When this no loner worked , and the situation became all to clear the central power of the state took over and put appropriate measures very quickly.


So criticism of China should be directed at the political system at its weakest point, the reluctance of regional authorities to admit anything is wrong in their region for fear of offending the central party organisation. Maybe you see this as a distinction without a difference?


 


Originally Posted by: DEW 


This is true but incomplete.


It wasn’t the Wuhan authorities who have massaged the numbers of deaths and it isn’t the Wuhan authorities that have conducted a campaign of misinformation and propaganda. Nor is it the Wuhan authorities who pressurised the WHO into sidelining Taiwan.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


speckledjim
03 May 2020 08:07:17
According to the Telegraph Boris will announce that primary schools are to reopen on 1st June, followed by pupils in years 10 and 12.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/02/primary-schools-reopen-june-part-blueprint-unlock-britain/amp/ 
Thorner, West Yorkshire


Journalism is organised gossip
RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
03 May 2020 08:14:37


 


I think it's a mistake to view 'China' as a monolithic state, however much it may want to be so.


My reading of this is that the authorities in Wuhan were scared stiff of losing face in the eye of the CCP in Beijing, and tried to mount a cover-up. When this no loner worked , and the situation became all to clear the central power of the state took over and put appropriate measures very quickly.


So criticism of China should be directed at the political system at its weakest point, the reluctance of regional authorities to admit anything is wrong in their region for fear of offending the central party organisation. Maybe you see this as a distinction without a difference?


 


Originally Posted by: DEW 


China does not have a monopoly on cover-ups. This is another manifestation of the old phenomenon of the intense pressure not to pass bad news up the chain of command. The same thing happened to the US in the Vietnam War and was one of many contributing factors to that debacle.


There are many accounts of this. See e.g. https://www.commondreams.org/views/2017/10/09/why-us-lost-vietnam-war


"Military officers were rewarded for successful performance of duties, not for failing performance. So, they had a built-in incentive to embellish their reports.  Low level lies were routinely rolled up into higher-level lies, all the way up the chain of command."


"The lying was so entrenched it was impossible to even discover until it was too late.  And when it was discovered the liars tried to impugn the truth tellers by questioning their patriotism."


 


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
doctormog
03 May 2020 08:26:45

According to the Telegraph Boris will announce that primary schools are to reopen on 1st June, followed by pupils in years 10 and 12.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/02/primary-schools-reopen-june-part-blueprint-unlock-britain/amp/

Originally Posted by: speckledjim 


So that is from an unnamed source but the latest official statement from the Department of Education states: “Education Secretary Gavin Williamson has not set a date for schools reopening. Schools will remain closed, except for children of critical workers and vulnerable children, until the scientific advice indicates it is the right time to reopen and the five tests set out by Government to beat this virus have been met.”


So in reality, based on verifiable sources, a newspaper headline and not a development.


David M Porter
03 May 2020 08:32:56


 


I think it's a mistake to view 'China' as a monolithic state, however much it may want to be so.


My reading of this is that the authorities in Wuhan were scared stiff of losing face in the eye of the CCP in Beijing, and tried to mount a cover-up. When this no loner worked , and the situation became all to clear the central power of the state took over and put appropriate measures very quickly.


So criticism of China should be directed at the political system at its weakest point, the reluctance of regional authorities to admit anything is wrong in their region for fear of offending the central party organisation. Maybe you see this as a distinction without a difference?


 


Originally Posted by: DEW 


Hi David,


Let me make it clear that at no time in any previous thread have I tried to blame China as a whole for this disaster, including the ordinary Chinese people. I certainly do not criticise the doctors and other medical people in Wuhan who did their utmost at the start to raise the alarm about the severity of the disease and who were then slapped down by the authorities. Some of these doctors and other medics sadly later succumbed to the disease themselves.


The people there that I do criticise very strongly are those in the authorities who tried to deny there was a serious crisis developing and tried to cover it up by bullying and intimidating those that were trying to raise the alarm into silence. Had the authorities not taken the attitude that they did and had taken what their own doctors and medics were saying seriously, then IMO there would have been a much greater chance that the disease would have been largely controlled within China itself and any effect there was on other countries around the world would have been much less serious than has proved to be the case.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
The Beast from the East
03 May 2020 08:37:23


More problems caused by C19 identified. 


Coronavirus: 'Covid toe' and other rashes puzzle doctors


 


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52493574


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Some who have already had it seem to be very smug, especially a certain LBC presenter who thinks he is invincible now


A lot we don't know about this and if you only had mild symptoms the first time, whether you have enough antibodies to ward off a second attack


I assume no more than 10% have had it. I would still rather not get it until a vaccine is available in case it does other damage to your body that will only become apparent later


 


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
03 May 2020 08:39:42

According to the Telegraph

Originally Posted by: speckledjim 


The Moon is made of Cheese


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Phil G
03 May 2020 08:45:07

Today's Russia's daily stats
- New Cases 10,633
- New Deaths 58

The differential between these two measures has been completely out of sync compared to other countries visuals on graphs.
Either there's a huge cover up with the deaths (remember the images of ambulance queues waiting for 9 hours just to admit patients when there were 'just' 3-4k new cases being reported each day a few weeks back, ministers being reported going down like flies), or Russia has found a way to significantly reduce deaths, something all other countries have failed to do.
My money is on the former and just waiting for a leak, a cry of help from someone on the frontline there to say what the position really is there. If it's the latter then someone needs to be having a serious conversation with Russia to find out how they have managed to achieve such low death compared to high infection rates.
My fat gut feeling is the real situation there is horrific!

The Beast from the East
03 May 2020 08:53:58


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
howham
03 May 2020 08:54:53


 


So that is from an unnamed source but the latest official statement from the Department of Education states: “Education Secretary Gavin Williamson has not set a date for schools reopening. Schools will remain closed, except for children of critical workers and vulnerable children, until the scientific advice indicates it is the right time to reopen and the five tests set out by Government to beat this virus have been met.”


So in reality, based on verifiable sources, a newspaper headline and not a development.


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


There is no chance Scottish schools will open before August.


 

John p
03 May 2020 08:55:36


 


Some who have already had it seem to be very smug, especially a certain LBC presenter who thinks he is invincible now


A lot we don't know about this and if you only had mild symptoms the first time, whether you have enough antibodies to ward off a second attack


I assume no more than 10% have had it. I would still rather not get it until a vaccine is available in case it does other damage to your body that will only become apparent later


 


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Who?


Camberley, Surrey
The Beast from the East
03 May 2020 08:56:52


Today's Russia's daily stats
- New Cases 10,633
- New Deaths 58

The differential between these two measures has been completely out of sync compared to other countries visuals on graphs.
Either there's a huge cover up with the deaths (remember the images of ambulance queues waiting for 9 hours just to admit patients when there were 'just' 3-4k new cases being reported each day a few weeks back, ministers being reported going down like flies), or Russia has found a way to significantly reduce deaths, something all over countries have failed to do.
My money is on the former and just waiting for a leak, a cry of help from someone on the frontline there to say what the position really is there.
My fat gut feeling is the real situation there is horrific!


Originally Posted by: Phil G 


 could be, but Russian peasants don't live beyond 70 anyway. In fact the life expectancy for those in poor rural areas is only about 60


Rather like Africa, there aren't many old people for this virus to kill


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
03 May 2020 08:58:02


 


Who?


Originally Posted by: John p 


The Fat [censored]with an Italian surname


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
John p
03 May 2020 09:01:49


 


The Fat [censored]with an Italian surname


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


I didn’t know he had it, having seen him, I’m surprised he survived unscathed. 


Camberley, Surrey
The Beast from the East
03 May 2020 09:05:18


 


I didn’t know he had it, having seen him, I’m surprised he survived unscathed. 


Originally Posted by: John p 


He thinks he had it, but he was never tested. I reckon it was just a man flu


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Polar Low
03 May 2020 09:08:24

I thought it was down to vodka and smoking both heavily



 


 could be, but Russian peasants don't live beyond 70 anyway. In fact the life expectancy for those in poor rural areas is only about 60


Rather like Africa, there aren't many old people for this virus to kill


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

The Beast from the East
03 May 2020 09:10:39


I thought it was down to vodka and smoking both heavily


 


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


Yes, that's the main cause and poor housing and working conditions, and diet


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
03 May 2020 09:11:52


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
03 May 2020 09:14:28

ST also reporting that fatties stay infectious for longer


 




"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
John p
03 May 2020 09:15:55

Meanwhile in the United States of Lunatics. 


 




Camberley, Surrey
llamedos
03 May 2020 09:25:22

We see frequent reports of motorists being stopped for non-essential travel and then fined. Question - do they then continue with their journey or are they instructed to turn round and return to home ?


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator

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