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Arbroath 1320
07 December 2020 13:49:18


 


P18 would surpass any severe spell since the early 90s IMO.


As in any winter model watching season, it’s all about sifting the genuine signals from the noise. You’ll always get a smattering of Stella runs in any ENS set, especially now there are 30 GFS perturbations and the ECM available. The trick is to identify if any of the more ‘favourable’ solutions (and remember, the Operational is always preferred to any of it’s ensemble siblings in isolation) are a genuine sign of a particular synoptic forecast or just ripples on the lake. And to assist that process you need to look at the background signals that may be influencing those solutions - MJO, AAM, u-wind trends, strat temps, etc. This is where you need to make judgements and assign a degree of confidence on whether the extended range offered by any particular model seems plausible or not whether it makes sense given the above - and other - known parameters. The computers of course take these and many other parameters into account to churn out their solutions but it’s rare to achieve above 85% accuracy at 5 days and much less at 10 days so anyone saying it will definitely be this or that in two weeks is at best guessing. 
The best even a hugely experienced forecaster can hope to achieve is an ‘idea’ of the set up in two weeks and that’s where means can be useful - to spot rough trends. That’s why I council against taking individual runs in isolation. It’s nice art but very unlikely to be a solution.


Now I’ve forgotten where this post was heading πŸ˜‚β˜ΊοΈ


 


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Yes, P18 on GFS 6z would take some beating if it's cold and snow you're after for Christmas. Great to look at but unfortunately little support from the other ENS. 


Based on the output across models it looks like we're heading into a bit of a  coolish, non-descript few weeks of weather. Certainly no strong signal (yet) for an Atlantic conveyer belt over us, which must be a positive.


GGTTH
DPower
07 December 2020 14:03:26
Gfs 06z showing the sort of evolution I was hoping to see, bringing the Arctic high into play.
Russwirral
07 December 2020 16:08:10

Bif of short term fun


seems on this run the LP is buckling a little and allowing the block to win out - only briefly. But importantly creates a slither of a snowy battleground


 


Ive seen snowy spells start with less in the past....


 


If this makes it to the 18z there could be some interest..


Netweather GFS Image


ballamar
07 December 2020 16:23:05
This run is a lot more promising with a better PV split at 192 could be a cold run
Rob K
07 December 2020 17:17:00

This run is a lot more promising with a better PV split at 192 could be a cold run

Originally Posted by: ballamar 


Not especially cold as far as it goes (although quite chilly at the surface at times) but looks ripe for potential at the end with some extremely frigid air to the north poised to spill southwards... perhaps


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." β€” Jerome K. Jerome
marting
07 December 2020 17:33:34

The control run from the GFS looking a lot better than the op. Plenty of other members looking good, the intrigue continues.


Martin


Martin
Greasby, Wirral.
Russwirral
07 December 2020 17:35:07
meh.... its still kinda there isnt it...

its like we are getting "Tesco value" northern blocking...


ballamar
07 December 2020 17:35:41


The control run from the GFS looking a lot better than the op. Plenty of other members looking good, the intrigue continues.


Martin


Originally Posted by: marting 


i did think this was as how the Op was going to go but alas no. There is a signal there whether it ends up being strong enough is another thing

Jeff
  • Jeff
  • Advanced Member
07 December 2020 17:45:40

meh.... its still kinda there isnt it...

its like we are getting "Tesco value" northern blocking...

Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


or low alcohol Stella 


On the East/West Sussex Border
70m ASL
picturesareme
07 December 2020 17:46:39

meh.... its still kinda there isnt it...

its like we are getting "Tesco value" northern blocking...

Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


Beast from the East or a nice high pressure slap bang over us, anything from the north just means cool days or cold rain whilst every bugger north of m4 has a snow chance.

Jeff
  • Jeff
  • Advanced Member
07 December 2020 17:49:52


 


Beast from the East or a nice high pressure slap bang over us, anything from the north just means cool days or cold rain whilst every bugger north of m4 has a snow chance.


Originally Posted by: picturesareme 


 


is the CONTROL RUN about to do something special after T288? The signals are still there but its when you no longer have to search for them it will become interesting...


On the East/West Sussex Border
70m ASL
Gooner
07 December 2020 18:20:17


Settle for that ( Control )


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


fairweather
07 December 2020 19:03:48

Just as a point of interest today was my lowest maximum, 2.9C, for almost two years. (Jan 23rd 2019). Last winter the lowest maximum was 5.2C , just to remind people how dire last winter was.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
doctormog
07 December 2020 19:06:44


Just as a point of interest today was my lowest maximum, 2.9C, for almost two years. (Jan 23rd 2019). Last winter the lowest maximum was 5.2C , just to remind people how dire last winter was.


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


We had a winter last year? 


ballamar
07 December 2020 19:51:58
ECM has the Arctic high but a little out of reach to influence at the moment, large chunk of the PV to the west might just push it away before it can do anything. Still hopeful of Xmas week though GFS control would be nice
marting
07 December 2020 20:10:52

ECM 32 day ensembles showing the overall trends tonight looking ahead 


https://apps.ecmwf.int/webapps/opencharts/products/mofc_multi_eps_family_plumes?base_time=202012070000&city=Reading


Be interesting to see how this appears in other representations later


Martin


Martin
Greasby, Wirral.
White Meadows
07 December 2020 20:40:58


ECM 32 day ensembles showing the overall trends tonight looking ahead 


https://apps.ecmwf.int/webapps/opencharts/products/mofc_multi_eps_family_plumes?base_time=202012070000&city=Reading


Be interesting to see how this appears in other representations later


Martin


Originally Posted by: marting 

Useful link thanks for this. Sadly the output remains rather uninspiring for coldies. At least we had a good frost this morning. Don’t think I remember any last year down on the coast. 

White Meadows
07 December 2020 20:55:29
Contingency Planners update ..not sure this has been discussed yet(?)
In a new presentation format, although the content is not pretty at all for coldies:

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/binaries/content/assets/metofficegovuk/pdf/business/public-sector/civil-contingency/3moutlook-djf-v2.pdf 
marting
07 December 2020 21:04:07


Useful link thanks for this. Sadly the output remains rather uninspiring for coldies. At least we had a good frost this morning. Don’t think I remember any last year down on the coast. 


Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


I can’t take the credit for the link, Thanks to Retron for this one.πŸ‘πŸŒ¨


Martin
Greasby, Wirral.
Downpour
07 December 2020 21:24:25

Contingency Planners update ..not sure this has been discussed yet(?)
In a new presentation format, although the content is not pretty at all for coldies:

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/binaries/content/assets/metofficegovuk/pdf/business/public-sector/civil-contingency/3moutlook-djf-v2.pdf

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


 


It’s been discussed endlessly! Think on the media thread a few days back 


Chingford
London E4
147ft
Saint Snow
07 December 2020 21:49:58


 


Beast from the East or a nice high pressure slap bang over us, anything from the north just means cool days or cold rain whilst every bugger north of m4 has a snow chance.


Originally Posted by: picturesareme 


 


Yet a bfte gives us in this region no snow. 


The Dec 10 evolution would be perfect. I think pretty much everyone got something from that. 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
White Meadows
07 December 2020 21:58:14
I’m seriously starting to think 2010 was the last true cold spell with snow I’ll see, living on the south coast.
All the trends point to a warmer world and this little island is so poorly positioned for proper snow as it is.
picturesareme
07 December 2020 21:58:52


 


 


Yet a bfte gives us in this region no snow. 


The Dec 10 evolution would be perfect. I think pretty much everyone got something from that. 


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


Dec 10 gave one day of snow here. 

Sevendust
07 December 2020 22:09:27

I’m seriously starting to think 2010 was the last true cold spell with snow I’ll see, living on the south coast.
All the trends point to a warmer world and this little island is so poorly positioned for proper snow as it is.

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


March 2018?


Anyway, the Russian bloc seems to sink on much of the current output leading to mild conditions mid-term

White Meadows
07 December 2020 22:41:45
Another kick in the gonads from the pub run 😣

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