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Jacee
30 January 2023 19:32:31

I must be missing something - light S-lies from a not terribly cold continent at T =+240 don't stir me even if coloured green. Overnight temps hovering around zero, not unknown in Feb, either https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/ecmhr.aspx?run=12&charthour=228&chartname=2mtmp_uk&chartregion=uk-region&charttag=2m%20temp 

Originally Posted by: DEW 



The link you take me to, DEW, hasn't fully updated at the time of me writing this. Are you sure you're referencing the 12z?
The ECM 12z is not a bad operational with strong height anomalies to the northeast by the end of the run. It'll need support from the rest of the suite before I take more than a passing interest, mind 😊

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Jacee, Hucknall (Notts) 😽 x
Brian Gaze
30 January 2023 19:49:20
Just as a quick pointer...

The "essential" ECM charts appear here first

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/ecmwf.aspx 

The more comprehensive ECM charts appear here about 1 hour later

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/ecmhr.aspx 

The timing differences are down to ECM and not a server limitation / constraint  at my end.
Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
tallyho_83
30 January 2023 20:09:08
Latest zonal winds speed at 10hpa shows that we could be in for another S. warming but will it split the PV? hmm... believe that when I see it, given the chopping and changing over past week and even if it does happen then it won't affect our weather until later in February or early March:

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Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
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Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Gandalf The White
30 January 2023 21:47:59

The link you take me to, DEW, hasn't fully updated at the time of me writing this. Are you sure you're referencing the 12z?
The ECM 12z is not a bad operational with strong height anomalies to the northeast by the end of the run. It'll need support from the rest of the suite before I take more than a passing interest, mind 😊

Originally Posted by: Jacee 



When there’s a possibility of an easterly the ECM ensemble for De Bilt can be helpful.   Not surprisingly the Op was colder than the mean from 9th Feb but not without support. 

https://www.weerplaza.nl/gdata/eps/eps_pluim_tt_06260.png 

 
Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


ballamar
30 January 2023 22:19:05
Pretty decent WAA into Scandi on this op run - whether it comes to anything
Op run still keen on the low pressure bombing in 8-9 days. Obviously way of but changes the high pressure build
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
30 January 2023 22:37:53

The link you take me to, DEW, hasn't fully updated at the time of me writing this. Are you sure you're referencing the 12z?
The ECM 12z is not a bad operational with strong height anomalies to the northeast by the end of the run. It'll need support from the rest of the suite before I take more than a passing interest, mind 😊

UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: Jacee 


That's the chart I was looking at (and is/was the one in Brian's links) - and I'm still not overwhelmed. More interesting than full-on zonal but not stellar.

(miserable old git, did I hear someone say?)
War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
tallyho_83
30 January 2023 22:58:06

That's the chart I was looking at (and is/was the one in Brian's links) - and I'm still not overwhelmed. More interesting than full-on zonal but not stellar.

(miserable old git, did I hear someone say?)

Originally Posted by: DEW 



Never saw this one 240z ECM 12z N. Hemisphere view: - Could be an outlier but that's quite a huge block stretching into polar regions. 

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Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
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Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


tallyho_83
31 January 2023 00:40:05
Quite a lot of scatter in the 18z GFS ENS: Some milder ones but in medium term - quite a few colder ones with some plunging us into the freezer! -10 to -15c's @ 850hpa!

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Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
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Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


tallyho_83
31 January 2023 00:50:26
GFS 18Z ENS that plunge us esp the south and east into the FREEZER at +240z: - All trying to build heights to our North and over Scandinavia!

P05
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P09
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P10
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P17
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P21
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P24
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Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
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Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Zubzero
31 January 2023 03:22:38
The "Vortex of Doom" is relentless

Now https://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?mode=0&ech=6&carte=1 

Two weeks later https://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=384&mode=0&carte=1  

Slight hope that it will weaken to allow a cold end to winter, but by the end of February it's increasingly harder to get prolonged cold In the south.
 
Heavy Weather 2013
31 January 2023 05:02:24
I’ll await the ensembles to see where this run fits in, but an astonishing op run this morning from GFS.

A lovely easterly develops with major blocking. Perhaps the air could be colder, but beggars can’t be choosers. A glance at the 18z ensembles we’re a step in the right direction with quite an increase of cold runs, after the carrot was dangled on the 12z ensembles. 
Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Ally Pally Snowman
31 January 2023 05:48:01

The "Vortex of Doom" is relentless

Now https://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?mode=0&ech=6&carte=1 

Two weeks later https://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=384&mode=0&carte=1  

Slight hope that it will weaken to allow a cold end to winter, but by the end of February it's increasingly harder to get prolonged cold In the south.
 

Originally Posted by: Zubzero 



Definitely an eyebrow raiser this morning.  Would set up a cold first half of February. 
 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Heavy Weather 2013
31 January 2023 06:13:21
The control run goes cold as well.

The op has support and the average is touching -5. What is astonishing this is coming about at 144hrs or so 
Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
doctormog
31 January 2023 06:40:02
I guess cool anticyclonic muck may be a touch more preferable to the cool windy cyclonic muck today (t850hPa mean at -6.2°C at midday).. 

On a more optimistic note with the ensemble mean option for winds from the south, given any sunshine it could feel very pleasant. All too uncertain just now. Perhaps the  00z GFS op run is right with its more wintry scenario, although perhaps the previous op run (18z) showing mild SWlies with the high pressure centred over mainland Europe will be the correct option. Time will tell.

 
ballamar
31 January 2023 07:06:43

I guess cool anticyclonic muck may be a touch more preferable to the cool windy cyclonic muck today (t850hPa mean at -6.2°C at midday).. 

On a more optimistic note with the ensemble mean option for winds from the south, given any sunshine it could feel very pleasant. All too uncertain just now. Perhaps the  00z GFS op run is right with its more wintry scenario, although perhaps the previous op run (18z) showing mild SWlies with the high pressure centred over mainland Europe will be the correct option. Time will tell.

 

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


where is the fun in being a realist when the op run throws up a cracker! You are right most likely is the low will push the high to bring in either a slack cool continental feed or SW winds but what a cracking run!
BJBlake
31 January 2023 07:08:02

I guess cool anticyclonic muck may be a touch more preferable to the cool windy cyclonic muck today (t850hPa mean at -6.2°C at midday).. 

On a more optimistic note with the ensemble mean option for winds from the south, given any sunshine it could feel very pleasant. All too uncertain just now. Perhaps the  00z GFS op run is right with its more wintry scenario, although perhaps the previous op run (18z) showing mild SWlies with the high pressure centred over mainland Europe will be the correct option. Time will tell.

 

Originally Posted by: doctormog 

Quite, but there is good alignment of the GFS op and the UKMO at T168, and having some slightly enhanced faith in the latter, it is for me an excellent indicator of this new scenario becoming the dominant trend. However, we will see - as you correctly say. The question of course that begs to be answered, is this: Has this pattern shift got anything whatsoever to do with anything going on in the Stratosphere - or is this simply a coincidence trying to be explained by a pattern craving brain? 
Brecklands, South Norfolk 28m ASL
nsrobins
31 January 2023 07:16:14
Might need to come back from hibernation - something is stirring in the East 😉
Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
ballamar
31 January 2023 07:26:01
Was wondering if Retron might appear soon with the infamous ENS -10 watch! 
Snow Hoper
31 January 2023 07:28:24
Looks like P26 has become the Op😉
Going to war over religion is like killing each other to see who has the better imaginary friend.


Home : Thorndon, Suffolk.
Heavy Weather 2013
31 January 2023 07:34:40

Was wondering if Retron might appear soon with the infamous ENS -10 watch! 

Originally Posted by: ballamar 



This gets an up vote from me. He only tends to do for easterlies. If his interest is peaked enough I am sure he will, they are rare.

Even Neil has awoken. Big day coming up.
Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
31 January 2023 08:33:25
Cold weather and then some appearing in WX temp charts this morning - I'll be pleased if my last night's pessimism is wrong. Week 1 much as yesterday, freezing weather E of a line Balkans - Baltic with an extension to the Alps; then in week 2 the 0C isotherm moves all the way west to cover all but W France and S Spain - and includes much of inland Britain. Quite a change! Pptn in week 1 as ever on N Atlantic and in the Med (plus a little in C Europe) then in week 2 much heavier in C Med while that in the Atlantic clears away to the W. [implication of a frosty rather than snowy period for Britain?]

GFS Op - HP moving up from the SW to a peak centre 1040mb N Ireland Sun 6th; the HP continues to intensify and to form a ridge to Scandinavia with 1050mb being achieved over the E Baltic Fri 10th. [Yesterday's charts show the HP sinking S instead] This directs an E-ly from C Europe across to Britain well established by Sun 12th. Although the HP collapses Thu 16th this allows Arctic air to come S-wards. But such a switch around needs a couple of days of confirmatory charts before confidence is established. 

ECM - similar to GFS but the ridge to Scandinavia does not establish fully with the last chart (Fri 10th) placing it over Denmark 1040mb and NE-lies affecting C Europe rather than potentially W to Britain

GEFS - mean temp mostly a little above norm to Mon 6th then several days with it a little below but during this period op & control are either cold or very cold (op. about 15C below norm on Sun 12th). Very dry until Fri 10th after which a little rain in some runs (the coldest runs are the dry ones). Scotland has a short colder period with rain at first.

Interesting, even exciting, but we need more ens members to follow op and control into the freezer; most are much closer to an undistinguished mean and many still above norm.
War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
UncleAlbert
31 January 2023 09:48:01
It starts with that second pulse of warm uppers around next Wednesday.  The interesting thing is that the ens have not been able to let go of this for days now even though it's been an outlier.  This morning we now see that the Scandy high scenario has more than 50% support at GEFS  t+168 although this drops off again moving forward into FI.  ECM en's now suggest the possibility of a four day cold snap.  Another point is the significant trend for the higher pressure values to be backed further NE towards the Murmansk area..
Saint Snow
31 January 2023 09:55:08
Feb CET comp has suddenly become a nightmare 😄

Martin
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The Beast from the East
31 January 2023 10:01:34

Might need to come back from hibernation - something is stirring in the East 😉

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 



Good timing for Channel 5 to be doing a documentary about the 2018 Beast, though I doubt the current Beast will ever get into the position we need to advect deep cold over the UK.
Dry cold and frosty looks the order of the day, not good for energy bills whatever happens
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Rob K
31 January 2023 10:16:03


Dry cold and frosty looks the order of the day, not good for energy bills whatever happens

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Certainly notice that with my heat pump. While it is still cheaper than my old heating in all conditions, the jump in energy usage is enormous when it's subzero, due to the defrost cycles. Now the weather has warmed up a few degrees it is costing less than half what it was a week or two ago.

But I still prefer the frosty weather, and the 00Z GFS has got me a tiny bit interested after what seems to have been weeks of deathly dull model output.

00Z ensembles have quite a few cold options but look less good for prolonged cold than the 18Z set (which I didn't see at the time).
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
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