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DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
15 April 2023 06:04:08
Million-year-old viruses help fight cancer, say scientists

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65266256 

An intriguing bit of genetic research.

It's always seemed to me on grounds of probability unlikely that only one cancer cell ever occurred, then multiplied and killed you; much more likely that cancerous cells were forming all the time and failing to develop. The immune system was always the prime candidate for disposing of cells developing irregularly.

 
War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
+1
Roger Parsons
15 April 2023 07:33:14

Million-year-old viruses help fight cancer, say scientists
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65266256 
An intriguing bit of genetic research.
It's always seemed to me on grounds of probability unlikely that only one cancer cell ever occurred, then multiplied and killed you; much more likely that cancerous cells were forming all the time and failing to develop. The immune system was always the prime candidate for disposing of cells developing irregularly. 

Originally Posted by: DEW 

It's intriguing how many of our "important bits" are made up of endosymbiotic microrganisms, including viruses. Here's a snippet in "Scitable" that describes the origins or mitochondria and chloroplasts. [You don't get much more important organelles!]
"Mitochondria and chloroplasts likely evolved from engulfed prokaryotes that once lived as independent organisms. At some point, a eukaryotic cell engulfed an aerobic prokaryote, which then formed an endosymbiotic relationship with the host eukaryote, gradually developing into a mitochondrion. Eukaryotic cells containing mitochondria then engulfed photosynthetic prokaryotes, which evolved to become specialized chloroplast organelles."
https://www.nature.com/scitable/content/the-origin-of-mitochondria-and-chloroplasts-14747702/ 

Taken futher, it has been postulated that early microbes of extraterrestrial origin may well have entered into such relationships.  Could humans be products of ancient "Panspermia"? The Juice satellite bound for Jupiter will be looking at the environmental factors that might allow the development of life forms.

Professor Brian Cox: Maybe humans are the Martians - watch 2 mins.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/science-environment-61540945 
also: short para...
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2686121/ 

"The panspermia hypothesis claims that life exists throughout the Universe, with microbes drifting through interstellar and interplanetary space, transmitting life to the next habitable body they encounter. According to this view the Earth of long ago was colonised by microbes that had somehow escaped from their home planets to drift across the vast distances between the stars until they arrived on that primeval and sterile Earth."
https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/fungal-biology-in-the-origin-and-emergence-of-life/an-extraterrestrial-origin-of-life/C63F00A275940B6AB9067F9D8DD151A1 
RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
ozone_aurora
15 April 2023 08:06:42
Very interesting articles. I strongly believe that Life on Earth arrived via Panspermia. It is amazing that chemical reactions, driven by say redox forces, can get so complex and stepwise that it evolves into something sentient. Looking forward to what JUICE will find.
+1
westv
15 April 2023 08:13:23
I always imagined  it that the chances of one cell becoming dangerously cancerous was incredibly unlikely but because we have billions of cells the chances of one or more becoming cancerous was increased by multiples.
At least it will be mild!
Roger Parsons
15 April 2023 08:21:33

Very interesting articles. I strongly believe that Life on Earth arrived via Panspermia. It is amazing that chemical reactions, driven by say redox forces, can get so complex and stepwise that it evolves into something sentient. Looking forward to what JUICE will find.

Originally Posted by: ozone_aurora 

I have to say the recent launch of Juice made me recall my first reading of Arthur C. Clarke's "2001"!
 
RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
The Beast from the East
15 April 2023 08:27:44

I have to say the recent launch of Juice made me recall my first reading of Arthur C. Clarke's "2001"!
 

Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons 


Shame he turned out to be a kiddy fiddler. Always enjoyed his books and TV appearances
 
"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Roger Parsons
15 April 2023 08:39:32

Shame he turned out to be a kiddy fiddler. Always enjoyed his books and TV appearances
 

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

I know this was alleged - but was he ever tried and found guilty? Or was this trial by "cyber-gob"?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2358011.stm 
RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
The Beast from the East
15 April 2023 13:03:32

I know this was alleged - but was he ever tried and found guilty? Or was this trial by "cyber-gob"?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2358011.stm 

Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons 



No, there were many boys who came forward but it got covered up by the Sri Lankan Govt, where he lived. At least we live in a country where someone like Saville was eventually exposed even though it had to be after his death
 
"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Roger Parsons
15 April 2023 13:54:21

No, there were many boys who came forward but it got covered up by the Sri Lankan Govt, where he lived. At least we live in a country where someone like Saville was eventually exposed even though it had to be after his death

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

Thanks, Beast. It would be far better to have had the benefit of due legal process. However, back to ancient viruses.... Here's the Youtube coverage of the story.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1cjorcoqLs 
RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
15 April 2023 21:14:17

I always imagined  it that the chances of one cell becoming dangerously cancerous was incredibly unlikely but because we have billions of cells the chances of one or more becoming cancerous was increased by multiples.

Originally Posted by: westv 



Quite so - and my point was that this happens all the time but we have our immune system to thank for dealing with all these pre-cancerous cells, that is, until one 'gets away'.
War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Gandalf The White
17 April 2023 08:08:57

Quite so - and my point was that this happens all the time but we have our immune system to thank for dealing with all these pre-cancerous cells, that is, until one 'gets away'.

Originally Posted by: DEW 



That is my understanding of what happens.

Of course, there are genetic and other factors that influence the likelihood of cancerous cells developing. I think we all know that you can inherit a higher risk of certain cancers and that there’s an interplay between that and other risk factors like diet, lifestyle and environment (eg chemicals).

Having watched my late mother’s cancer continue to evolve and defeat each of a string of successive chemotherapy treatments over 5-6 years, I was all too aware of how it can adapt.

 
Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Duckiepuddle
17 April 2023 13:32:30
Hi,

Did you see the other story the BBC ran two days before this one?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65252510 
An unprecedented analysis of how cancers grow has revealed an "almost infinite" ability of tumours to evolve and survive, say scientists.

Put together, they make an interesting read indeed and shows how far research has come but still has to go.

DP
Twitter: KnowsleyWeather@DuckieWeather
+1
Roger Parsons
19 April 2023 16:16:20

Hi,

Did you see the other story the BBC ran two days before this one?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65252510 
An unprecedented analysis of how cancers grow has revealed an "almost infinite" ability of tumours to evolve and survive, say scientists.

Put together, they make an interesting read indeed and shows how far research has come but still has to go.

DP

Originally Posted by: Duckiepuddle 

I was a bit slow picking up on this piece DP. Thanks for posting it.  It's very interesting but not really surprising. "Life finds a way" it seems, ironically even for cancer cells. No efficient pathogen benefits by killing off its host. The ideal is to achieve an immunological balance that allows you to continue to  circulate in your host population.
Given these cancer cells are mutating towards a "dead end" one wonders what the "biological agenda" might be? [...to imply intention to underline the point!] Is it as simple as: "I multiply, therefore I am"?
Roger
RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
+1
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