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Retron
19 November 2023 08:44:10

CFS model forecasting cold anomalies for Britain of -10C (Dec) and -5C (Jan), and then average until May when at least the SE is a lot warmer (+10C).

But CFS being what it is, if you don't like the above, just re-visit it in a week's time!

Originally Posted by: DEW 


Those are 500hPa anomalies, not temperature! 😉

The latest CFS as per TWO's charts would paint a very unsettled picture for December, with deep lows tracking further south than normal - not at all pleasant, so hopefully it's wrong...
Leysdown, north Kent
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
19 November 2023 09:10:44

Those are 500hPa anomalies, not temperature! 😉

The latest CFS as per TWO's charts would paint a very unsettled picture for December, with deep lows tracking further south than normal - not at all pleasant, so hopefully it's wrong...

Originally Posted by: Retron 



OOps! 😖
War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Russwirral
20 November 2023 11:56:52


Interesting how prolonged below average temps are forecast for Scandinavia. almost 3 weeks of well below average temps are forecast....

Let the snow build

This could be a great precursor for winter in the UK

 
Gandalf The White
20 November 2023 12:22:30

Interesting how prolonged below average temps are forecast for Scandinavia. almost 3 weeks of well below average temps are forecast....

Let the snow build

This could be a great precursor for winter in the UK

 

Originally Posted by: Russwirral 



But only if the jet stream plays ball.  
Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Retron
20 November 2023 12:40:23
The Baltic ice chart has updated, and there's not been so much sea ice up there since at least 2008.

https://en.ilmatieteenlaitos.fi/ice-conditions? 

It's great to see a massive positive anomaly up there for once.
Leysdown, north Kent
Saint Snow
20 November 2023 13:00:27


The latest CFS as per TWO's charts would paint a very unsettled picture for December, with deep lows tracking further south than normal - not at all pleasant, so hopefully it's wrong...

Originally Posted by: Retron 



I know generally not good for the south, but that at least opens the door to a 'cold zonality'-type result for further north.

 

Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Bolty
22 November 2023 18:15:50
Things are certainly looking interesting for cold lovers at this stage. The question is, are we looking at the start of a generally HLB-dominated pattern for the foreseeable, or will we burn ourselves out in the first half of December like we did last year? It's hard to say at this stage, but there's definitely cause for optimism.
Scott
Blackrod, Lancashire (4 miles south of Chorley) at 156m asl.
My weather station 
Gavin D
24 November 2023 21:47:01
Winter 2023/2024 Final Forecast: Cold arrives early across the United States and Europe and is likely to return as we head into the next year

https://www.severe-weather.eu/long-range-2/winter-2023-2024-final-forecast-cold-start-united-states-canada-europe-fa/ 
lanky
25 November 2023 08:58:34

Winter 2023/2024 Final Forecast: Cold arrives early across the United States and Europe and is likely to return as we head into the next year

https://www.severe-weather.eu/long-range-2/winter-2023-2024-final-forecast-cold-start-united-states-canada-europe-fa/ 

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 



Despite the dramatic headline reflecting the somewhat cooler than average weather over the next few days in both UK and USA, the detailed ECMWF and MetO forecasts contained in this article for DJF are just going for the normal borefest this winter. A safe prediction in this day and age anyway

Temperatures 0.5-1.0 above average (couldn't see what base line was being used though)
Rainfall average (Meto) to 40-60% above average (ECMWF)

Winds predominantly between W and S with low pressure around south of Iceland

yawn
Martin
Richmond, Surrey
CField
25 November 2023 11:29:31
Lets hope other factors come into play that prevents the strengthening  polar vortex just merely blowing it all away East of the Urals

Things are certainly looking interesting for cold lovers at this stage. The question is, are we looking at the start of a generally HLB-dominated pattern for the foreseeable, or will we burn ourselves out in the first half of December like we did last year? It's hard to say at this stage, but there's definitely cause for optimism.

Originally Posted by: Bolty 


Favourite snowstorm
Famous channel low
Dec 31st 1978
Hastings East Sussex
Foot of level snow severe drifting
Next day max temp -4 degrees Celsius
jhall
30 November 2023 09:00:44
Some notable cold winters in the UK: 1895 (Jan CET 0.2, Feb -1.8), 1917 (Jan 1.6, Feb 0.9), 1940 (Jan -1.4), 1962-3 (Jan -2.1, Feb -0.7), 1986 (Feb -0.7), 2009-10 (Jan 1.2); all at an interval of about 23 years. Coincidence? Very probably, but it could conceivably be linked to the double sunspot cycle. Anyway, if the 22-24 year interval was to be maintained, we could look forward to the winter of 2023-4 being notably cold.
Cranleigh, Surrey
David M Porter
30 November 2023 09:26:55

Some notable cold winters in the UK: 1895 (Jan CET 0.2, Feb -1.8), 1917 (Jan 1.6, Feb 0.9), 1940 (Jan -1.4), 1962-3 (Jan -2.1, Feb -0.7), 1986 (Feb -0.7), 2009-10 (Jan 1.2); all at an interval of about 23 years. Coincidence? Very probably, but it could conceivably be linked to the double sunspot cycle. Anyway, if the 22-24 year interval was to be maintained, we could look forward to the winter of 2023-4 being notably cold.

Originally Posted by: jhall 



I thought that December counts as a winter month too, at least under the meteorogical season calendar?
Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
bledur
30 November 2023 09:34:19

Things are certainly looking interesting for cold lovers at this stage. The question is, are we looking at the start of a generally HLB-dominated pattern for the foreseeable, or will we burn ourselves out in the first half of December like we did last year? It's hard to say at this stage, but there's definitely cause for optimism.

Originally Posted by: Bolty 


 For the south that is often the case and the "Ice in November " saying is often true.
Saint Snow
30 November 2023 09:49:19

Some notable cold winters in the UK: 1895 (Jan CET 0.2, Feb -1.8), 1917 (Jan 1.6, Feb 0.9), 1940 (Jan -1.4), 1962-3 (Jan -2.1, Feb -0.7), 1986 (Feb -0.7), 2009-10 (Jan 1.2); all at an interval of about 23 years. Coincidence? Very probably, but it could conceivably be linked to the double sunspot cycle. Anyway, if the 22-24 year interval was to be maintained, we could look forward to the winter of 2023-4 being notably cold. 

Originally Posted by: jhall 



You might want to check your maths 😉

Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
johncs2016
30 November 2023 10:33:45
It's come to that time of year now when official winter forecasts are released on various YouTube channels. Mark Vogan (like many others, I had thought that he was Scottish and he does indeed, currently live in the north of Scotland and yet, he is actually originally from Northern Ireland and has said so in many of his videos) is due to publish his winter forecast today both on his YouTube channel, and here  on his website.

Mark Vogan will base his forecasts on all of the various global drivers such as the ongoing ENSO state and SSTs. However, his motives for that tend to be heavily influenced by what is happening with the MJO and if you want to learn more about the MJO, that is the place to go. However, Mark Vogan will always gives us clues along the way as to what his thinking for the season ahead actually is, even before his forecasts are officially released.

Gavin P. on the other hand (who is also a very well known member of this forum) will be issuing his official winter forecast on YouTube on this coming weekend. Unlike Mark Vogan, Gavin P. doesn't give any clues as regards to his overall thoughts for a season ahead before the forecast for that season has been officially released, and prefers to keep everything under very close wraps until that happens. Gavin P. used to have his own website a number of years ago, but decided not to keep that up (except for the purpose of selling merchandise for his channel) as he puts out far more videos on a regular basis than any of the other YouTubers out there (that is not including all of the live streams which he does as well), and doesn't time to be able to maintain a website as well, although he does still have another channel where will sometimes discuss other aspects of his life which aren't weather related, and where he also does monthly videos on General Election predictions and what's happening with the latest opinion polls.

As for his seasonal weather forecasts though, these tend to be heavily based on the analogues which he will discuss in his series of winter update videos leading up to that and quite often, this will go against what the models are saying although that part is also included in the runup to those forecasts as separate videos.

As you can see, both of those YouTubers have their own individually different way of doing things, but they are both just as good as each other in their own way, at what they do and are both really good at that.

As I said above, Mark Vogan's forecast will be released today and up until now, he has hinted that the MJO is about to go into a less favourable phase for cold weather so that although this current cold spell may well last well into the first week of December, Mark reckons that the state of the MJO at that time is likely to result in the Atlantic regaining more of an influence with our weather then becoming milder as a result.

I can therefore just see that story playing out where we get that cold spell just now and then as it gets milder at around the end of the first week of December, that then ends up being it for our "winter". I have seen that story being played out many times in the past, and it wouldn't surprise me one single bit if that happened on this occasion as well.
 
The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.
jhall
30 November 2023 19:09:53

I thought that December counts as a winter month too, at least under the meteorogical season calendar?

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 



It does, but none of the Decembers in those years was quite cold enough for me to mention them. Of course it would have been possible to take 2010-11 instead of 2009-10, to get an exceptionally cold December, but the earlier year seemed to fit the roughly 22-24 year cycle rather better.
Cranleigh, Surrey
jhall
30 November 2023 19:11:35

You might want to check your maths 😉

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 



Oops! How embarrassing! I think senility must really be setting in.
Cranleigh, Surrey
Roger Parsons
30 November 2023 20:19:18

Oops! How embarrassing! I think senility must really be setting in.

Originally Posted by: jhall 

Relax - it gets worse. My other half was convinced today is Saturday, while it was is clear it was Sunday... 😱 [Only half joking!!]
RogerP
West Lindsey district of Lincolnshire
Everything taken together, here in Lincolnshire are more good things than man could have had the conscience to ask.
William Cobbett, in his Rural Rides - c.1830
Gavin D
01 December 2023 18:57:49
Brian is going for a slightly milder and slightly wetter than average winter

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/forecast/uk-seasonal-weather-forecast 
Gavin D
02 December 2023 09:14:27
All flights are cancelled at Glasgow Airport following heavier than forecast snow
Gavin D
02 December 2023 20:23:57
Munich has had its largest December snowstorm on record, with at least 45cm (17 inches) on the ground
tallyho_83
03 December 2023 01:15:12

Munich has had its largest December snowstorm on record, with at least 45cm (17 inches) on the ground

Originally Posted by: Gavin D 



All of Scandinavia is now snow covered as well as Baltic states (Latvia/Lithuania, Estonia and low countries like Denmark and Poland.

I would say a good 85-90% of Germany is also snow covered and tomorrow could be 100% covered! Also all of Belarus, Czech Rep, Slovakia, Slovenia and Austria and now most of Switzerland too. Bulgaria and Romania aren't doing bad for early snow. Ukraine is snow covered except southern coastal areas near black sea.

Have you seen the latest European snowcover satellite? Just incredible how well Europe is doing for snow and has been since end of November too and it appears that most of Europe will hold on to the cold for longer by looks of things as well.

All we need is a blocking high over Scandinavia - Temps have been some 5-8c below normal for a while now.

Just hope the very strong Siberian/Svalbard High will move to Scandinavia and shake hands with Greenland high and these large amounts of HLB will help aide an early SSW. 🙂 - Here's for hoping anyway.

Although there was not much snow in Devon - parts of Cornwall has seen quite a lot of snow on Friday morning and accumulating too which is VERY unusual for late Autumn - esp as we are in an El Nino pattern. - Hope this is a sign of things to come!?
Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


johncs2016
03 December 2023 09:24:21
So Brian has gone for a milder than average winter whereas Mark Vogan went for a slightly colder than average winter overall, but with average temperatures overall during this month.

Meanwhile, Gavin P. will be releasing his winter forecast today on YouTube, and it will be interesting to see what he goes for.
 
The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.
Gavin D
03 December 2023 14:06:52
GavsWeatherVids winter forecast is 50/50 for cold/mild
Gavin D
03 December 2023 15:41:37
Netweather are going for a close to average winter overall, with February having the greatest chance of being the coldest month of winter.

https://www.netweather.tv/weather-forecasts/uk/long-range/seasonal 

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