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Joe Bloggs
08 January 2024 22:05:43
No matter what happens from this point.

What a setup to have at day 5.

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU18_120_1.png 

👍

Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

ballamar
08 January 2024 22:08:43

No matter what happens from this point.

What a setup to have at day 5.

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU18_120_1.png 

👍

Originally Posted by: Joe Bloggs 



people will always look for the breakdown before the real cold has started! Feels like it will be better for northern areas to begin with
White Meadows
08 January 2024 22:12:05
You have to agree Met Office’s back-end/ late loaded winter forecast in the contingency planners from November is panning out well so far. Including the wet and mild December aspect. 
If it truly is a case of colder as we end the winter, plus the SSW double dip, there should be lots to look forward to from here.

 
Joe Bloggs
08 January 2024 22:13:56
Monday is looking COLD.

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU18_162_1.png 

Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

Rob K
08 January 2024 22:27:34

Monday is looking COLD.

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU18_162_1.png 

Originally Posted by: Joe Bloggs 


5C down here, I would be surprised if it was that high but you never know in a northerly that’s picked up all the hot air from oop north!
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Joe Bloggs
08 January 2024 22:30:50

5C down here, I would be surprised if it was that high but you never know in a northerly that’s picked up all the hot air from oop north!

Originally Posted by: Rob K 



It’ll feel nippy in the wind. 🤣

Anyway 18z is a funny run so far. Weaker Greenland heights but remains cold out to T+222. 

Very messy synoptically. 

Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

Russwirral
08 January 2024 23:10:23
Back to a prolonged cold and dry spell from the gfs

we are getting the odd run showing snow, but im starting to feel the majority are dry and close to the centre of HPs variety.

Seasonal cold i suppose.
fairweather
08 January 2024 23:17:20
Further to my earlier posts regarding the GFS and ECM 12z ensemble means, if the colder lower cluster does verify the upper perts would be removed and that would drag down those current means by a degree or two making it more interesting for the south and even better in the north. 😀
S.Essex, 42m ASL
Retron
09 January 2024 04:35:13
This morning's GFS op run has one of its trademark "blow up" lows, so I suspect can't be taken too seriously. It has the effect of siphoning up some very mild air, with double figures in the south around day 9.

Nonetheless, watching the descent of the -8 line across the UK, almost but not quite reaching down here, reminds me of playing the 2p slot machines in the Leysdown arcades as a kid. Pull the lever, BAR... BAR... orange. But look, there's another BAR just one away, it was so close. Pull again and you lose, then lose again. As you walk away, disenchanted, you hear the sound of someone else winning the 20p jackpot.

It's what makes events like yesterday's snow so sweet, even if historically it was insignificant.

GEM isn't very exciting down here either, with the -8 line not even getting close before milder SW'lies move in. There's then a glacially slow sinking of colder air, with the 0C isotherm finally making it right at the end. I don't even think that counts as "jam tomorrow".

Perhaps this is a refinement of what we saw yesterday: an initial push of cold air south, which brings some snow to favoured areas in Scotland and northern England. However, a low then spins up, deflecting the cold from the south. As the low moves away, the cold push resumes. This would be an exercise in frustration in the south but quite pleasant if it's snow you're after further north!

It's worth mentioning that although MetO also has a low, it doesn't do much with it (it doesn't engage the jet) and thus the -8 isotherm makes it to the south coast on day 6.

Let's see what the ensembles say.
 
Leysdown, north Kent
Retron
09 January 2024 05:14:09


Let's see what the ensembles say.
 

Originally Posted by: Retron 


And the answer is - take your pick!

There are two clusters by 192, i.e. day 8.

Around half the runs bring cold air across the UK. The other half (including the control) find a way to keep it bottled up further north, with mild conditions in the south (and varying as to how far north that mildness extends).

Yet again we await the G(E)FS to resolve the positioning of a low pressure system!
Leysdown, north Kent
Heavy Weather 2013
09 January 2024 05:17:23

This morning's GFS op run has one of its trademark "blow up" lows, so I suspect can't be taken too seriously. It has the effect of siphoning up some very mild air, with double figures in the south around day 9.

Nonetheless, watching the descent of the -8 line across the UK, almost but not quite reaching down here, reminds me of playing the 2p slot machines in the Leysdown arcades as a kid. Pull the lever, BAR... BAR... orange. But look, there's another BAR just one away, it was so close. Pull again and you lose, then lose again. As you walk away, disenchanted, you hear the sound of someone else winning the 20p jackpot.

It's what makes events like yesterday's snow so sweet, even if historically it was insignificant.

GEM isn't very exciting down here either, with the -8 line not even getting close before milder SW'lies move in. There's then a glacially slow sinking of colder air, with the 0C isotherm finally making it right at the end. I don't even think that counts as "jam tomorrow".

Perhaps this is a refinement of what we saw yesterday: an initial push of cold air south, which brings some snow to favoured areas in Scotland and northern England. However, a low then spins up, deflecting the cold from the south. As the low moves away, the cold push resumes. This would be an exercise in frustration in the south but quite pleasant if it's snow you're after further north!

It's worth mentioning that although MetO also has a low, it doesn't do much with it (it doesn't engage the jet) and thus the -8 isotherm makes it to the south coast on day 6.

Let's see what the ensembles say.
 

Originally Posted by: Retron 



This is why I left work an hour early yesterday. So I could at least walk outside in the falling snow. You just never know whether it might be the last snow you see falling in winter. Next week just feels fraught with danger. We had to wait five weeks for our second snow ‘event’. Another five weeks will take us to second week of February, a time which is a lot more risky for the south.
Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Ally Pally Snowman
09 January 2024 05:48:26
Pete Tong loves to join the party doesn’t he. Although the ensembles still look ok when Ops go off on one like this in the 144h/168h range its normally curtains.  
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Heavy Weather 2013
09 January 2024 06:30:31

Pete Tong loves to join the party doesn’t he. Although the ensembles still look ok when Ops go off on one like this in the 144h/168h range its normally curtains.  

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



Indeed - so much energy has been spent discussing next week. It feels like we’ve been going in circles. We had a full house on Sunday. 
Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Ally Pally Snowman
09 January 2024 06:32:40

Indeed - so much energy has been spent discussing next week. It feels like we’ve been going in circles. We had a full house on Sunday. 

Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 



Indeed but ECM 0z looks better at 144h . Still hope .
 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Ally Pally Snowman
09 January 2024 06:36:47
ECM saves the day its a stunner again at day 7.
 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Tim A
09 January 2024 06:40:23
GEM is a high risk high reward run with the potential for heavy snow (noting how terrible GEM snow charts are) before the cold returns south. GFS has some snow too and remains cold for Scotland .
Might be worth the risk rather than a cold dry Northerly. 
Tim
NW Leeds
187m asl

 My PWS 
Ally Pally Snowman
09 January 2024 06:50:00
Looks like a mega snowstorm at 216h from ECM.  
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Retron
09 January 2024 06:54:25

Looks like a mega snowstorm at 216h from ECM.  

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


6 hours of snow down here, followed by torrential rain. The Midlands would do very nicely from it though!

ECM precip type charts:

https://meteologix.com/uk/model-charts/euro/united-kingdom/significant-weather/20240117-0600z.html 

Snow depth charts - the peak is around 20cm, with 5cm+ widely, even here for a short while:

https://meteologix.com/uk/model-charts/euro/united-kingdom/snow-depth/20240117-1800z.html 
 
Leysdown, north Kent
Ally Pally Snowman
09 January 2024 06:54:29

Looks like a mega snowstorm at 216h from ECM.  

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



indeed snow shovels at the ready.

https://weather.us/model-charts/euro/england/snow-depth-in/20240117-1800z.html#tab-dates-date 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
doctormog
09 January 2024 07:17:09
Messy again this morning. The initial cold sets in at the same timescale as before but after that there are the whole range of options that have been played with over the last days on various op runs. The GEFS ensembles are a bit more consistent in terms of the mean at least if not the options. For what it’s worth, for the first time the GEFS mean has dipped below -10° here on Monday. It has gradually been creeping down but this is still at day 6 so who knows.

With the options on the table this morning I would hate to make a call for early to mid next week.
Ally Pally Snowman
09 January 2024 07:18:47

6 hours of snow down here, followed by torrential rain. The Midlands would do very nicely from it though!

ECM precip type charts:

https://meteologix.com/uk/model-charts/euro/united-kingdom/significant-weather/20240117-0600z.html 

Snow depth charts - the peak is around 20cm, with 5cm+ widely, even here for a short while:

https://meteologix.com/uk/model-charts/euro/united-kingdom/snow-depth/20240117-1800z.html 
 

Originally Posted by: Retron 



Its still going at day 10 that really is the mother of all snowstorms for here. One day!


 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Joe Bloggs
09 January 2024 07:41:49
Yes I think we are seeing stronger agreement now for a slight relaxation to the Greenland heights, combined with low pressure moving in from the SW.

This could result in a lot of snow (or rain in places) - there is little point trying to nail down the detail yet. 

Using the MetO run - we have this at day 5, which is stunning really. https://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/UKMHDOPEU00_120_1.png 

So the usual suspects will get snow showers in the first instance, northern Scotland and perhaps the east coast of the UK, North Wales etc. 

Then moving out of the reliable - hopefully the winds will back NW’ly (this is shown in quite a number of charts), which will bring larger areas of Scotland, NI, NW England at risk of snow showers. 

Then moving even further out of the reliable - we get the low pressure push. Too far out to take seriously but a decent guess would be heavy snow for the Midlands and south. Or it might rain in places (GFS op). 

Lots to get out teeth into! 

 

Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

Ally Pally Snowman
09 January 2024 07:53:40
ECM 0z means look good for snow events to me. Similar if not better than the Op.

https://www.wetterzentrale.de/en/topkarten.php?map=1&model=ecm&var=2&run=0&time=216&lid=AVG&h=0&mv=0&tr=24#mapref 

 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
White Meadows
09 January 2024 08:08:32
If I hear ‘high risk high reward’ one more time…

Quick summary:

GFS - awful
UKMO - all the potential stuck at 144hrs yet again 
EC - a Beauty 
 
doctormog
09 January 2024 08:26:40

If I hear ‘high risk high reward’ one more time…

Quick summary:

GFS - awful
UKMO - all the potential stuck at 144hrs yet again 
EC - a Beauty 
 

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 



I know, it's shocking. Yesterday it was stuck at 168 hr and last Friday it was stuck at 240 hr. Now today it's "stuck" at 144 hr. Stupid sticking, you can almost bet money that this time tomorrow it will be stuck at 120 hr based on the trend 

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