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John p
20 December 2011 22:09:09


As a proven racist, Suarez should be sacked, as would I if it happened in my work place.

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


Were you one of the FA panel? Because you seem to ignore the facts of the case and reach for the black cap without a thought and before listening to anything said.


Originally Posted by: John p 

If Suarez was a Man Utd player, you'd be saying the same thing would you? You miss the point that he admitted saying it!

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


He admitted saying a word that, in his home country, isn't a racist term - negrito


http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/spanish-slang-may-get-suarez-off-the-hook-6261881.html


Additionally, if people of Afro-Caribbean descent are free to call each other '[censored]' then, given Suarez himself is one-quarter Afro-Carribean, where is the genetic line drawn?

Originally Posted by: John p 


That's not a defence though - he's been plying his trade in Europe for years so should know by now what is acceptable.

Camberley, Surrey
SEMerc
20 December 2011 22:21:36

Miust go and have a butchers at RAWK - it's probably in meltdown; again. Always good value reading the 'contributions' over there.


Personally, I think the sentence is a bit harsh. I'd have already banned the little fooker for the whole season for persistent diving.


P.S. I assume the FA have yet to do anything about the one fingered salute at Fulham.


Hopefully, that horrible little oik Terry will follow soon.

SEMerc
21 December 2011 00:37:59


 
 

Luis himself is of a mixed race family background as his grandfather was black.  He has been personally involved since the 2010 World Cup in a charitable project which uses sport to encourage solidarity amongst people of different backgrounds with the central theme that the colour of a person's skin does not matter; they can all play together as a team.

He has played with black players and mixed with their families whilst with the Uruguay national side and was Captain at Ajax Amsterdam of a team with a proud multi-cultural profile, many of whom became good friends....


Originally Posted by: haghir22 


Priceless.

Brian Gaze
21 December 2011 07:49:45

This is how you kick out a player.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16280364.stm


I like this.



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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NickR
21 December 2011 08:01:09



As a proven racist, Suarez should be sacked, as would I if it happened in my work place.

Originally Posted by: John p 


Were you one of the FA panel? Because you seem to ignore the facts of the case and reach for the black cap without a thought and before listening to anything said.


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

If Suarez was a Man Utd player, you'd be saying the same thing would you? You miss the point that he admitted saying it!

Originally Posted by: John p 


He admitted saying a word that, in his home country, isn't a racist term - negrito


http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/spanish-slang-may-get-suarez-off-the-hook-6261881.html


Additionally, if people of Afro-Caribbean descent are free to call each other '[censored]' then, given Suarez himself is one-quarter Afro-Carribean, where is the genetic line drawn?


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

That's not a defence though - he's been plying his trade in Europe for years so should know by now what is acceptable.

Originally Posted by: John p 


It very much is an excuse. If he was talking in Spanish (which he was), then there is nothing wrong with using the word "negrito". In Latin America the term is common when talking about anyone who has darker skin than you, or about yourself if you are generally dark skinned. Likewise "gordito" (fatty), "flaquito" (skinny), "blanquito" (whitey), etc.. These are common and not pejorative terms. They CAN be used pejoratively, of course, depending on tone. But that's a hell of a difficult thing for someone who doesn't speak the language to judge (let alone understand). What the panel have clearly shown is that they don't understand anything about linguistic and cultural usage. My wife is from Venezuela, by the way, and her friends  from Venezuela refer to her pretty much all the time as "negrita" (and I sometimes say "mi negrita").


Nick
Durham
[email protected]
John p
21 December 2011 08:37:08
The point is Nick, he's not in South America is he?

The age of consent is 15 in Uruguay - he'd be charged if he had sex with a 15 year old here.
Or
Drinking on the street is fine in the UK, but you know not to do it in Dubai etc etc.

Are you a Liverpool fan by any chance? !
Camberley, Surrey
NickR
21 December 2011 08:44:32

The point is Nick, he's not in South America is he?

The age of consent is 15 in Uruguay - he'd be charged if he had sex with a 15 year old here.
Or
Drinking on the street is fine in the UK, but you know not to do it in Dubai etc etc.

Are you a Liverpool fan by any chance? !

Originally Posted by: John p 


No, but he's speaking Spanish. This isn't about behaviour, it's about language. WHy should you be charged with racism because of a mistranslation of non-racist a term you've used in your own language? If he'd said it in English, then fair enough. But he didn't.


 


And no I'm not a Liverpool fan. I'm someone who actually knows what they're talking about when it comes to Spanish and issues of language and cultural awareness generally.


Nick
Durham
[email protected]
haghir22
21 December 2011 08:45:37

The point is Nick, he's not in South America is he?

The age of consent is 15 in Uruguay - he'd be charged if he had sex with a 15 year old here.
Or
Drinking on the street is fine in the UK, but you know not to do it in Dubai etc etc.

Are you a Liverpool fan by any chance? !

Originally Posted by: John p 


That is a very fair point John, one that I dont think anyone here disputes. The issue for me is the fact that the FA fly everyone out to appeal Rooney stamping on someones leg, do nothing about Terry who can be clearly seen numerous times racially abusing Ferdinand, and then give Suarez 8 games....It just seems harsh and almost scapegoat like. I wonder if Liverpool will take this to an external court, I just cannot see how the charges would hold up? I know I'm biased, but I really am trying to look at it away from red tinted specs and it just seems ludicrous.


YNWA
NickR
21 December 2011 08:47:29


The point is Nick, he's not in South America is he?

The age of consent is 15 in Uruguay - he'd be charged if he had sex with a 15 year old here.
Or
Drinking on the street is fine in the UK, but you know not to do it in Dubai etc etc.

Are you a Liverpool fan by any chance? !

Originally Posted by: haghir22 


That is a very fair point John, one that I dont think anyone here disputes. The issue for me is the fact that the FA fly everyone out to appeal Rooney stamping on someones leg, do nothing about Terry who can be clearly seen numerous times racially abusing Ferdinand, and then give Suarez 8 games....It just seems harsh and almost scapegoat like. I wonder if Liverpool will take this to an external court, I just cannot see how the charges would hold up? I know I'm biased, but I really am trying to look at it away from red tinted specs and it just seems ludicrous.


Originally Posted by: John p 


With all due respect, it's not a fair point. It's a completely baseless analogy that John made (see my post above).


Nick
Durham
[email protected]
NickR
21 December 2011 08:49:56
If you are talking to someone in Venezuela in English, for example, and you say "well you can't teach your grandmother to suck eggs" and then you were arrested because - in a direct, word for word translation - you'd just made an incredibly offensive remark about not teaching your grandmother to suck something else (I think you know what I mean), then would you say that was all fair?
Nick
Durham
[email protected]
John p
21 December 2011 09:29:09

The point is Nick, he's not in South America is he?

The age of consent is 15 in Uruguay - he'd be charged if he had sex with a 15 year old here.
Or
Drinking on the street is fine in the UK, but you know not to do it in Dubai etc etc.

Are you a Liverpool fan by any chance? !

Originally Posted by: haghir22 


That is a very fair point John, one that I dont think anyone here disputes. The issue for me is the fact that the FA fly everyone out to appeal Rooney stamping on someones leg, do nothing about Terry who can be clearly seen numerous times racially abusing Ferdinand, and then give Suarez 8 games....It just seems harsh and almost scapegoat like. I wonder if Liverpool will take this to an external court, I just cannot see how the charges would hold up? I know I'm biased, but I really am trying to look at it away from red tinted specs and it just seems ludicrous.

Originally Posted by: John p 



Well Nick disputes it somehow! I guess the QC's on the independent panel had no idea.

As for John Terry, I think he'll get a 12 game ban and possibly a police action, plus stripped of the England captaincy...
Camberley, Surrey
NickR
21 December 2011 09:31:22
What I'm disputing, John, is the idea that "negrito" is per se a racist term when speaking in Spanish. It isn't. I made very clear that, in a certain tone, it can be racist. Not sure what your anger is against me. Maybe you think you understand Latin American Spanish better than I do.
Nick
Durham
[email protected]
Gooner
21 December 2011 09:44:33




As a proven racist, Suarez should be sacked, as would I if it happened in my work place.

Originally Posted by: NickR 


Were you one of the FA panel? Because you seem to ignore the facts of the case and reach for the black cap without a thought and before listening to anything said.


Originally Posted by: John p 

If Suarez was a Man Utd player, you'd be saying the same thing would you? You miss the point that he admitted saying it!

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


He admitted saying a word that, in his home country, isn't a racist term - negrito


http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/spanish-slang-may-get-suarez-off-the-hook-6261881.html


Additionally, if people of Afro-Caribbean descent are free to call each other '[censored]' then, given Suarez himself is one-quarter Afro-Carribean, where is the genetic line drawn?


Originally Posted by: John p 

That's not a defence though - he's been plying his trade in Europe for years so should know by now what is acceptable.

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


It very much is an excuse. If he was talking in Spanish (which he was), then there is nothing wrong with using the word "negrito". In Latin America the term is common when talking about anyone who has darker skin than you, or about yourself if you are generally dark skinned. Likewise "gordito" (fatty), "flaquito" (skinny), "blanquito" (whitey), etc.. These are common and not pejorative terms. They CAN be used pejoratively, of course, depending on tone. But that's a hell of a difficult thing for someone who doesn't speak the language to judge (let alone understand). What the panel have clearly shown is that they don't understand anything about linguistic and cultural usage. My wife is from Venezuela, by the way, and her friends  from Venezuela refer to her pretty much all the time as "negrita" (and I sometimes say "mi negrita").


Originally Posted by: John p 


Very interesting Nick, obviously well clued up on the culture. Reading your comments it seems the FA have just taken it clearly as racism rather than looking at the background and up bringing of Suarez who saw no wrong in using the word "negrito" and why would he? as it is the norm back home and isn't offensive. Sometimes we cam be a little ignorant over here , can't we?


Hmmmmm I wonder what the JT will bet ?


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


John p
21 December 2011 10:02:45

I'm not angry Nick??


I guess it may be best to wait for the written reasons from commission member Paul Goulding QC — which will be made available to the public.  There may be more to this than meets the eye.


Does anyone know when his next charge is being heard (for the one finger salute at Fulhams fans?) I expect he'll get another couple of games for that too.


Camberley, Surrey
SEMerc
21 December 2011 10:05:53

Anyway, all's well now.


John p
21 December 2011 10:42:51
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/16186556.stm  change any opinions?


-------


Piara Powar, executive director of Football Against Racism in Europe (Fare), believes the governing body's decision is a landmark judgement.

He told BBC Radio 5 live: "This is the first time we have seen an insight into what is said between players on the pitch, and what may have been commonplace between players in the past.


"This is a big moment and I would say that the FA have dealt with this in the right way. They have taken their time and taken independent advice.

"No one takes any pleasure from seeing him found guilty like this but it is an interesting judgement."

Powar said Fare has taken advice on the abusive word used by Suarez and the context of similar words in South American dialect.

He added: "If it is used in a friendly fashion then it is acceptable, it turns immediately to a hostile meaning if it is used as an offensive word.

"Taking the context of that game, it is difficult to see how he would have used it in a friendly way."


Camberley, Surrey
SEMerc
21 December 2011 10:56:05

I don't know precisely how the FA decision making process works. For example, is previous behaviour, even in another league, taken into account? If so, then that may explain the length of the ban to some extent. Anyway, all will be revealed eventually.

John p
21 December 2011 11:08:31


I don't know precisely how the FA decision making process works. For example, is previous behaviour, even in another league, taken into account? If so, then that may explain the length of the ban to some extent. Anyway, all will be revealed eventually.


Originally Posted by: SEMerc 


Well if that is taken in to account, he was never going to win!


(he was serving a 7 game ban in Holland for biting chunk of an opponents ear in a game for Ajax and was dubbed the Cannibal of Amsterdam)


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2076827/Luis-Suarez-history-Otman-Bakkal-Uruguay-v-Ghana-handball-World-Cup.html


Camberley, Surrey
Snow Hoper
21 December 2011 12:18:57

I'm glad he's banned as I can't stand the little sh*t. That vile cheating poor excuse for a human should be dumped somewhere in a desert and left there. I just hope as a Chelsea fan, that JT is also given the same, if not worse punishment, if its proven to be exactly as it looks on video.


Going to war over religion is like killing each other to see who has the better imaginary friend.


Home : Thorndon, Suffolk.
CAPE-steve
21 December 2011 13:16:56
Yep all eyes on the Terry verdict now
SEMerc
21 December 2011 13:19:51

I'll bet the CPS does nothing. I hope I'm wrong.

SEMerc
21 December 2011 14:23:50

One occasion where it's nice to be wrong.

speckledjim
21 December 2011 14:40:32
Intersting to see whether the FA wait until the legal process is completed or act now. This could drag on for months (post euros)....
Thorner, West Yorkshire


Journalism is organised gossip
SEMerc
21 December 2011 14:41:45

He is going to get some serious abuse (if he plays) on Thursday night.


As Ray Wilkins will no doubt say on Sky: 'My word'.

SEMerc
21 December 2011 17:42:43

Case to be tried by magistrates, no custodial sentence, maxiumum fine £2,500, if found guilty, is what I understand.

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