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Weathermac
19 July 2013 07:58:04


Summer soon to be over if we believe the ECM32 and GFS ensembles not looking good.


Matt Hugo Twitter


 


"Less said about overnight update of EC32 the better. Develops low pressure late July and keeps it until mid-August."


"00z GFS ENS for early August is indicating a distinctly cyclonic/low pressure dominated pattern over the UK... "


Originally Posted by: Matty H 



Less said the better is right as far as that pile of crud is concerned. Hugo's ECM32 tweets have kicked him in the nuts all summer.

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


 


Yes Matty i cant remember the EC32 suggesting we were going to have a 3 week Hot spell .

Charmhills
19 July 2013 07:58:12


Summer soon to be over if we believe the ECM32 and GFS ensembles not looking good.


Matt Hugo Twitter


 


"Less said about overnight update of EC32 the better. Develops low pressure late July and keeps it until mid-August."


"00z GFS ENS for early August is indicating a distinctly cyclonic/low pressure dominated pattern over the UK... "


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


And as Matt said if it to be believed thats the caviat....


Still looking hot/humid and increasingly thundery for next week.


What comes after your guess is as good as mine!


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
vince
19 July 2013 07:59:06


Summer soon to be over if we believe the ECM32 and GFS ensembles not looking good.


Matt Hugo Twitter


 


"Less said about overnight update of EC32 the better. Develops low pressure late July and keeps it until mid-August."


"00z GFS ENS for early August is indicating a distinctly cyclonic/low pressure dominated pattern over the UK... "


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


 


this is one doom mongeror of the highest order , that 32 dayer is a useful as a chocolate teapot

Jive Buddy
19 July 2013 08:02:14



Summer soon to be over if we believe the ECM32 and GFS ensembles not looking good.


Matt Hugo Twitter


 


"Less said about overnight update of EC32 the better. Develops low pressure late July and keeps it until mid-August."


"00z GFS ENS for early August is indicating a distinctly cyclonic/low pressure dominated pattern over the UK... "


Originally Posted by: vince 


 


this is one doom mongeror of the higest order , that 32 dayer is a useful as a chocolate teapot


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Well said Sir (long standing TWOers will get the connection there 😉 :p-)


It's not over, until the fat Scandy sinks.....

Location: St. Mary Cray, S.E. London border with Kent.
Ally Pally Snowman
19 July 2013 08:03:58



Summer soon to be over if we believe the ECM32 and GFS ensembles not looking good.


Matt Hugo Twitter


 


"Less said about overnight update of EC32 the better. Develops low pressure late July and keeps it until mid-August."


"00z GFS ENS for early August is indicating a distinctly cyclonic/low pressure dominated pattern over the UK... "


Originally Posted by: vince 


 


this is one doom mongeror of the highest order , that 32 dayer is a useful as a chocolate teapot


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


I agree the ECM32 hasnt had a good Summer, I just think it will get it right eventually.


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Jiries
19 July 2013 08:11:17




Summer soon to be over if we believe the ECM32 and GFS ensembles not looking good.


Matt Hugo Twitter


 


"Less said about overnight update of EC32 the better. Develops low pressure late July and keeps it until mid-August."


"00z GFS ENS for early August is indicating a distinctly cyclonic/low pressure dominated pattern over the UK... "


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


 


this is one doom mongeror of the highest order , that 32 dayer is a useful as a chocolate teapot


Originally Posted by: vince 


I agree the ECM32 hasnt had a good Summer, I just think it will get it right eventually.


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


In October onward yes likely because we just enter a good spell of weather after a very cold Spring so August in my view looking a decent month as it been years since we have a very good August.

eddied
19 July 2013 08:34:50




Summer soon to be over if we believe the ECM32 and GFS ensembles not looking good.


Matt Hugo Twitter


 


"Less said about overnight update of EC32 the better. Develops low pressure late July and keeps it until mid-August."


"00z GFS ENS for early August is indicating a distinctly cyclonic/low pressure dominated pattern over the UK... "


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


 


this is one doom mongeror of the highest order , that 32 dayer is a useful as a chocolate teapot


Originally Posted by: vince 


I agree the ECM32 hasnt had a good Summer, I just think it will get it right eventually.


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Something something broken clock something something


Location: Reigate, Surrey 105m ASL

Winter 22/23
Days snow falling: 4
Days snow on ground:8
Max snow depths: 6cm (December 19th ish)

Summer 2022 max 39C on July 19th
Summer 2021 max: 32C on July 18th
Summer 2020 max: 36C on July 31st
Polar Low
19 July 2013 08:38:06

if anything we need ecm to be right here at that T u can c why gfs is not so good develops energy much more to our s/w on 500 and shifts hights further n/e with a block to our north.


http://www.meteo.psu.edu/~fxg1/ECMWF_0z/hgtcomp.html

nouska
19 July 2013 08:40:56
I would say the ECM has had a reasonable summer - some of the interpretations and comments have not!!

This is the latest 32 day ensemble for Birmingham.

http://www.weatherxchange.com/unzippedmonth/Coleshill_monthts_Tmax_18072013_D+XX.png 

http://www.weatherxchange.com/unzippedmonth/Coleshill_monthts_Rain_18072013_D+XX.png 

Yes, a cool down to average but not showing anything to warrant some of the previous comments here.
Sevendust
19 July 2013 08:43:07



Summer soon to be over if we believe the ECM32 and GFS ensembles not looking good.


Matt Hugo Twitter


 


"Less said about overnight update of EC32 the better. Develops low pressure late July and keeps it until mid-August."


"00z GFS ENS for early August is indicating a distinctly cyclonic/low pressure dominated pattern over the UK... "


Originally Posted by: Charmhills 


And as Matt said if it to be believed thats the caviat....


Still looking hot/humid and increasingly thundery for next week.


What comes after your guess is as good as mine!


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Common sense as ever, Duane 

Polar Low
19 July 2013 08:45:08

yes agreed and mean 0z does look much better develops energy much less so also many members not so sure what to do with energy many variations but yes ecm is quite good when you look further for decent quite warm summer weather


http://www.weatherxchange.com/unzippedmonth/Coleshill_monthts_Rain_18072013_D+XX.png 

Yes, a cool down to average but not showing anything to warrant some of the previous comments here.

nsrobins
19 July 2013 08:46:59


I agree the ECM32 hasnt had a good Summer, I just think it will get it right eventually.


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


It got sunburnt early on then got delayed on the train due to buckling rails.


The ECM32 is a model like any other so deserves a mention, but have to agree it's not done well these last few months.
In fact I may go as far as saying the ECM32 predicting a cool, wet August is fantastic news for everyone who likes warm, settled weather


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
19 July 2013 08:52:27
Question.......... s if you don't mind...?

1) How & why do the models disagree so much alot of the time? or iz it the say different forecasters interpret the info from them?

2) What do F1/FI or Fl mean in models timeframe?

3) What does the z mean in moxel terms?

4) Will Leicester get a proper thunderstorm anytime soon?!!!!

5) Is there a proper key somewhere online that defines all the symbols used in models?

Cheers
VSC
Steam Fog
19 July 2013 08:53:42
Any long range model is going to struggle, because modelling the weather at long range is tricky. If there was a GFS 32 it would be marginal, much as CFS is too. That's just the nature of longer range forecasts. I wouldn't complete ignore the EC32, nor would I take it as gospel.
Steam Fog
19 July 2013 08:56:23

Question.......... s if you don't mind...?

1) How & why do the models disagree so much alot of the time? or iz it the say different forecasters interpret the info from them?

2) What do F1/FI or Fl mean in models timeframe?

3) What does the z mean in moxel terms?

4) Will Leicester get a proper thunderstorm anytime soon?!!!!

5) Is there a proper key somewhere online that defines all the symbols used in models?

Cheers
VSC

Originally Posted by: VIRTUAL STORMCHASER 



FI (not F1) is not specific and depends a bit, but anything beyond 7 days is heading into FI.

Z is Zulu.
19 July 2013 08:59:11

Any long range model is going to struggle, because modelling the weather at long range is tricky. If there was a GFS 32 it would be marginal, much as CFS is too. That's just the nature of longer range forecasts. I wouldn't complete ignore the EC32, nor would I take it as gospel.

Originally Posted by: Steam Fog 


A GFS32 would just show a succession of dartboard lows hitting the UK for its entire run.

Polar Low
19 July 2013 09:03:00

i feel the same about that s/f I guess one could say his brave to try to  call or stupid to try to do so because not been very good guide for a while maybe he should say his not sure with so much variation in there in the members


But then as u say its the nature of long range forecasting.


Any long range model is going to struggle, because modelling the weather at long range is tricky. If there was a GFS 32 it would be marginal, much as CFS is too. That's just the nature of longer range forecasts. I wouldn't complete ignore the EC32, nor would I take it as gospel.

Originally Posted by: Steam Fog 

Polar Low
19 July 2013 09:06:36

Thanks very much Martin.



Good morning folks. Here is my version on the course of events over the next 14 days or so using the midnight computer outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Friday July 19th 2013.


All models seem to handle the synoptics very similar for the next 5-6 days taking us up until the middle of next week. High pressure rmeains the dominant force positioned over Northern parts of the UK with a gentle but subtle feed of ENE winds across Southern parts. These winds will advance low cloud across from the East tonight to greet most Central and eastern parts with a grey and cooler start to the day tomorrow. The highest temperatures will then be felt over more western and NW areas where skies stay clear and sunny with these conditions spreading back to the East during the daytime's tomorrow and Sunday. Early next week winds are shown by all models to fall slack and light and with more humidity being fed into the UK the temperatures will soar again for a while early in the week and with the injection of humidity the risk of isolated showers and thunderstorms increase across the South and West by Tuesday as a trough edges in from the SW.


GFS then develops this feature more later in the week though less dramatically than last night. There would be a zone of thundery weather trundling North over the UK followed by brighter and fresher weather with sunny spells and dry conditions again most likely for a time over the weekend. Then through the second week Low pressure takes more overall control feeding in cooler atlantic air and setting the UK up for a heady mix of breezy conditions, average temperatures and rain at times with Low pressure in close attendance near the UK.


The GFS Ensembles show Low pressure developing to the West of the UK later next week as the favoured option with still a fair amount of dry weather to be found, especially towards the East where it would likely stay warm for a time before a Westerly flow is favoured by the end of the run. The 26th still looks the preferred date of change from GFS.


The Jet Stream today shows the flow to the NW breaking up over the next few days in response to High pressure migrating further North. Then as Low pressure meanders up from the SW the flow out of the States is engaged and eventually carries the flow across the UK through Week 2.


UKMO today shows a shallow and showery trough across the UK on Thursday of next week, moving slowly North. There would most likely be a band of showers and thunderstorms moving slowly NE over the UK, more likely over the North by Thursday while the South becomes brighter and slightly fresher but still warm with just scattered showers in winds turning to the SW.


GEM today is slower to bring the thundery zone North. It reaches the South on Thursday and becomes a slow moving and complex thundery Low feature with a lot of warm and humid air entrained. Slightly fresher air then movesacross from the SW across Southern areas over next weekend.


NAVGEM is also trending towards a thundery breakdown later next week as Low pressure moves slowly North from Biscay late next week. There would be some fine and sunny weather about still, especially in the North but most Southern areas would be likely to see at least some thundery rain or storms by the weekend.


ECM today shows a thundery trend too later next week though it's hard to gauge the Northwards extent and how widespread such an event is likely to be with no definitive movements to the features bringing this change. As a result the UK is left in a humid pool of very warm air which looks like becoming slowly displaced from the West over next weekend as Low pressure and cooler air to the West exerts some influence towards and over the UK then. 


In Summary though a basic slow trend towards something more thundery next week is emerging where it leaves the UK by the end of the week and next weekend is unclear. GFS has ditched it's deeply unsettled phase next weekend with a much more gentle approach this morning while the other output all show a zone of thundery weather moving slowly North later in the week. I am less then convinced that a major thundery outbreak is likely from these type of synoptics as the features moving up from the SW are shallow and ill defined. Yes, I'm sure there will be some nasty storms scattered about next week but 'scattered' is likely to be the key word as I think some places may miss them and stay largely dry and still very warm at least until the weekend when a gentle cooling trend might edge in from off the Atlantic.


Originally Posted by: GIBBY 

Ally Pally Snowman
19 July 2013 09:08:59

Its not just the ECM 32 dayer suggesting a awful start to August.


Matt Hugo Twitter


"All 3 of the longer range ensemble models now have low pressure dominant over the UK late July into early Aug."



Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Stormchaser
19 July 2013 09:11:35

The models this morning are seeing enough of an Atlantic push to wedge energy in underneath the block to our NE and lead to persistent UK troughing.


Some take a fair bit longer than others, with ECM the slowest and GFS the quickest (I know UKMO gets the trough here soonest but it's a little way out to the west so I reckon full trough domination would take a few days longer).


I do wonder where this signal is coming from - apparently the MJO/GWO doesn't support anything much so it ought to be something else... but what?




All that remains is to see whether the models are overcooking the jet stream energy. If they are, then the trough positioning will be corrected further west in future runs. Otherwise... make the most of this coming weekend if you have the fine weather!


I must admit that I could just about tolerate a mixed August, even one with a very unsettled first 7-10 days. Obviously a lot of school kids will not be of such mindset!


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Steam Fog
19 July 2013 09:14:37

Its not just the ECM 32 dayer suggesting a awful start to August.


Matt Hugo Twitter


"All 3 of the longer range ensemble models now have low pressure dominant over the UK late July into early Aug."


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



And that might be the case, but given it's two weeks away it may well not be. I'd be surprised if the current pattern didn't shift as we head into the end of July, early August. There's enough indications to suggest some sort of change. What it will look like, how long it will last, we'll see. Trying to "write off" August or the rest of summer at this stage is as preposterous as ever (or to put it another way as silly as claiming the current weather will last all through the rest of summer).
Ally Pally Snowman
19 July 2013 09:17:37


Its not just the ECM 32 dayer suggesting a awful start to August.


Matt Hugo Twitter


"All 3 of the longer range ensemble models now have low pressure dominant over the UK late July into early Aug."



Originally Posted by: Steam Fog 



And that might be the case, but given it's two weeks away it may well not be. I'd be surprised if the current pattern didn't shift as we head into the end of July, early August. There's enough indications to suggest some sort of change. What it will look like, how long it will last, we'll see. Trying to "write off" August or the rest of summer at this stage is as preposterous as ever (or to put it another way as silly as claiming the current weather will last all through the rest of summer).


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


 


You can only go on what you see and at the moment the very end of July and the first week or so of August looks poor. Still got 7-10 days of high Summer though with probably the highest temps still to come.


 


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Polar Low
19 July 2013 09:21:56

could put ecm monthly forecast midland chart in but i pad funny about link but only shows one day below average untill 19th august rest above average could put chart in but I dont think Im allowed to do so


 

vince
19 July 2013 09:26:19


Its not just the ECM 32 dayer suggesting a awful start to August.


Matt Hugo Twitter


"All 3 of the longer range ensemble models now have low pressure dominant over the UK late July into early Aug."



Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


 


sorry but these 32 dayers should be banned  under the pessimism law, the success rate in the UK must be around 2% they probably work in continental europe though

Polar Low
19 July 2013 09:28:14
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