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Stormchaser
20 July 2013 12:07:02

While we wait for the next bout of NWP output, here's a quick look at another breed of model output:


 


http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/people/wwang/cfsv2fcst/imagesInd3/glbz700MonInd1.gif


Lately CFS hasn't been bad at all at predicting the general 500mb pattern 1 month in advance, so I'm paying good attention to the output for August.


It hasn't suggested much for the UK but does point toward the Azores High tending to be located well to the west, leaving us changeable with more of a reliance on Euro Highs for more settled spells of weather.


There isn't a singal for anomalous high-latitude blocking forcing the jet to lock in on a southerly track, so we could easily remain on the warmer side of things for much of the time. Could be a bit of an unremarkable month if CFS has it right. Can't say I'd complain much


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Keep Calm and Forecast On
Jiries
20 July 2013 12:19:02

I think 12z runs would be massive change after today disaster that sent many people in shock seeing overcast conditions spreading as far as west UK.  It could either mean the heatwave completely finished today and replace the heat and thunderstorms early next week to unsettled cool spell or settled but average to warmish temps with on going easterly blast.

NickR
20 July 2013 12:22:28


I think 12z runs would be massive change after today disaster that sent many people in shock seeing overcast conditions spreading as far as west UK.  It could either mean the heatwave completely finished today and replace the heat and thunderstorms early next week to unsettled cool spell or settled but average to warmish temps with on going easterly blast.


Originally Posted by: Jiries 


And the winner of "Hyperbolic Post of the Year" goes to...


Nick
Durham
[email protected]
Gooner
20 July 2013 14:23:29

Still pretty warm next weekend 26C.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn18017.png

Looks quite humid.

Originally Posted by: Steam Fog 


Be happy with that, starting to climatise


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
20 July 2013 16:07:37

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3017.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn5417.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn7817.png


Warmer tomorrow , hotter Monday and Tuesday


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
20 July 2013 16:18:02

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn14417.png


The heat still lingers


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gary L
20 July 2013 16:27:24

Looks like thunderstorms developing on Monday and then much more vigorous activity widely across England and Wales on Tuesday. 

Hungry Tiger
20 July 2013 16:34:44


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn14417.png


The heat still lingers


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


It's after that - what happens.


 


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Charmhills
20 July 2013 16:47:09


And very convective throughout this coming week even into FI.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Hungry Tiger
20 July 2013 17:01:39

Well it fizzles out - but then what.


http://www.jp2webdesign.co.uk/ds/gfs.htm


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Matty H
20 July 2013 17:15:08

Well it fizzles out - but then what.


http://www.jp2webdesign.co.uk/ds/gfs.htm

Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 



You start predicting the worst summer ever? 😝
Polar Low
20 July 2013 17:39:38

very high cape values around on tuesday maybe some violent t storms around in the mix..


http://www.weatherbadger.com/viewer.php?area=uk&wxcht=exp_CAPE

Polar Low
20 July 2013 17:56:59

knife edge stuff even some gfs members move energy more west, continue to pump warm air into s and s/e england heights always maintained to our n/e will be close call imo


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?code=6&ech=180&mode=0&carte=0

cowman
20 July 2013 18:08:04
Look's like a reload on gfs12z in fi mind
Gooner
20 July 2013 18:22:18

Look's like a reload on gfs12z in fi mind

Originally Posted by: cowman 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3841.png


Just in time for the hols


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Essan
20 July 2013 18:26:44

Look's like a reload on gfs12z in fi mind

Originally Posted by: cowman 



Interesting.   I did say I thought this would happen! 

(obviously it hasn't yet, may never, and subsequent runs will no doubt show varied solutions)


Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
Polar Low
20 July 2013 18:30:02

still very warm on ecm in 5 days time for some s/e and s people


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=120&mode=0&map=1&archive=0

Medlock Vale Weather
20 July 2013 18:49:49


very high cape values around on tuesday maybe some violent t storms around in the mix..


http://www.weatherbadger.com/viewer.php?area=uk&wxcht=exp_CAPE


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


I hope so Tim, not had a proper thunderstorm here for a while.


Alan in Medlock Valley - Oldham's frost hollow. 103 metres above sea level.
What is a frost hollow? http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/Frost-hollow.htm 
Polar Low
20 July 2013 18:53:44

would not take much from here Steve as u say


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=192&mode=1&map=1&archive=0


 


 



The breakdown to cooler and fresher conditions is far less convincing today with the GFS and ECM keeping many parts of the UK in the heat on Friday 26th July now.


The old addage of not relying too heavily on output post 144 hours seems to apply.


The heat could well extend now towards August if the trend to weaken the trough and send it further west continues. 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 

GIBBY
20 July 2013 19:04:41

Good evening folks. Here is my review of the midday reports issued by GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Saturday July 20th 2013.


All models suggest changes afoot as we move through the coming week though the extent and effects of these changes on the surface differ somewhat between the outputs. The High pressure close to Northern Britain remains in place a while longer with the cooler cloudier phase of today, tonight and for a while tomorrow being replaced by a surge of hot and humid weather exported from Europe as winds turn more towards the SE. In addition pressure will be falling to the South and SW to some degree or another and the risk of thunderstorms relevant to this pressure fall moves slowly North into the UK over the next 72hrs and most likely further North too by midweek or soon after.


GFS then holds Low pressure out to the West and SW of the UK for the remainder of next week and weekend with showers or longer spells of rain likely, especially in the West and with temperatures only slowly falling back through the second half of the week and weekend some thunderstorms are still possible at times. In the second half of the run the there is very little change until we move beyond the Day 10 time point when a new Atlantic Low brings a more definitive drop in temperatures with fresh Westerly winds and rain at times in a typical Atlantic Westerly set up.


The GFS Ensembles show a two phase cool off tonight. The first one commences on the 24th as the first wave of thundery weather moves North. the second, following a temporary warmer spell in the SE affects all areas from the 28th when Atlantic rain bearing troughs take over proper with average temperatures with wind and rain likely from thereon till the end of the run.


The Jet Stream Forecast tonight is as this morning with the kindly flow blowing well North of the UK dissipating as I type with a new arm already entering the West Atlantic on a collision course with the UK from the middle of the coming week. It then holds it's position blowing East over or close to Southern Britain for the duration of the remainder of the run.


UKMO tonight has a Low pressure complex over Ireland midweek which opens out across Southern Britain by next weekend. The net result is a thundery breakdown before midweek before a slow decline in temperatures looks likely with a typical heady mix of sunny intervals and thundery showers to end the week when it may well still feel quite warm out and about in light winds.


GEM tonight is less enthusiastic about much in the way of a thundery breakdown as it shows a weaker thundery band of weather moving slowly North and East over Tuesday and Wednesday. Later in the week a slow cool down develops as Low pressure commands control close to the NW and West of the UK with increasing amounts of cloud and showery rain to take us through next weekend and the end of the run.


NAVGEM shows a slow progression to rather thundery conditions through the week with a showery theme continuing on through to the end of it's run tonight as slack Low pressure meanders around Southern Britain in slowly cooling air.


ECM tonight shows a less thundery scenario too to end the hot spell with just isolated storms early in the week and perhaps something a little more organized crossing the SE Tuesday before a slow cool off is associated with sunshine and showers for the rest of the week with the West seeing the most showers while the SE maintain some reasonable temperatures for a while. By next weekend with Low pressure close to NW Britain a sunshine and shower mix seems likely with some SE areas still seeing a lot of dry if cooler conditions. The end days of the run do show a mobile Westerly Atlantic flow as a conveyor belt of troughs and disturbances run East across the UK in temperatures much closer to average for all.


In Summary tonight it still looks like a change to cooler weather is on the way. It looks like the first half of the week will see some residual heat with some thunderstorms in places before a gentle decline in temperature values looks odds on as winds turn to a fresher South-westerly later in the week with further showery rain at times. Once this more Atlantic borne weather establishes it looks like it could last for a time before we can look either SW or NE for our next spell of fine weather to hopefully develop as we move into August.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



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Stormchaser
20 July 2013 19:06:24

Interesting stuff... I wonder if the models are tending to take energy NE too much post-144h just as we see with blocks to our E and NE in winter.


Imagine how the 12z ECM op run would have turned out if the energy hadn't gone NE from 144 to 168h... let alone of the initial trough was further west too! Perhaps a surprisingly large amount to play for here - just need to watch to see if trends continue i.e. whether the LP keeps shifting west with each new run, with a reduction in the overall westerly momentum.


I've read on NW that back in 2006, the models were showing a breakdown just as they are now, but the Atlantic incursion just got downgraded further and further until at 'the last minute' it became pretty much negligible with temps remaining hot either side of an outbreak of thunderstorms. For all I know it could go that way this time, though I wouldn't bet on it getting as far this time as the jet stream looks stronger on the 96-144h output compared to what can be inferred from archived model output (basing that on a few charts posted on NW though!).


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

https://twitter.com/peacockreports 
2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Polar Low
20 July 2013 19:07:43

Thanks Martin


Good evening folks. Here is my review of the midday reports issued by GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Saturday July 20th 2013.


All models suggest changes afoot as we move through the coming week though the extent and effects of these changes on the surface differ somewhat between the outputs. The High pressure close to Northern Britain remains in place a while longer with the cooler cloudier phase of today, tonight and for a while tomorrow being replaced by a surge of hot and humid weather exported from Europe as winds turn more towards the SE. In addition pressure will be falling to the South and SW to some degree or another and the risk of thunderstorms relevant to this pressure fall moves slowly North into the UK over the next 72hrs and most likely further North too by midweek or soon after.


GFS then holds Low pressure out to the West and SW of the UK for the remainder of next week and weekend with showers or longer spells of rain likely, especially in the West and with temperatures only slowly falling back through the second half of the week and weekend some thunderstorms are still possible at times. In the second half of the run the there is very little change until we move beyond the Day 10 time point when a new Atlantic Low brings a more definitive drop in temperatures with fresh Westerly winds and rain at times in a typical Atlantic Westerly set up.


The GFS Ensembles show a two phase cool off tonight. The first one commences on the 24th as the first wave of thundery weather moves North. the second, following a temporary warmer spell in the SE affects all areas from the 28th when Atlantic rain bearing troughs take over proper with average temperatures with wind and rain likely from thereon till the end of the run.


The Jet Stream Forecast tonight is as this morning with the kindly flow blowing well North of the UK dissipating as I type with a new arm already entering the West Atlantic on a collision course with the UK from the middle of the coming week. It then holds it's position blowing East over or close to Southern Britain for the duration of the remainder of the run.


UKMO tonight has a Low pressure complex over Ireland midweek which opens out across Southern Britain by next weekend. The net result is a thundery breakdown before midweek before a slow decline in temperatures looks likely with a typical heady mix of sunny intervals and thundery showers to end the week when it may well still feel quite warm out and about in light winds.


GEM tonight is less enthusiastic about much in the way of a thundery breakdown as it shows a weaker thundery band of weather moving slowly North and East over Tuesday and Wednesday. Later in the week a slow cool down develops as Low pressure commands control close to the NW and West of the UK with increasing amounts of cloud and showery rain to take us through next weekend and the end of the run.


NAVGEM shows a slow progression to rather thundery conditions through the week with a showery theme continuing on through to the end of it's run tonight as slack Low pressure meanders around Southern Britain in slowly cooling air.


ECM tonight shows a less thundery scenario too to end the hot spell with just isolated storms early in the week and perhaps something a little more organized crossing the SE Tuesday before a slow cool off is associated with sunshine and showers for the rest of the week with the West seeing the most showers while the SE maintain some reasonable temperatures for a while. By next weekend with Low pressure close to NW Britain a sunshine and shower mix seems likely with some SE areas still seeing a lot of dry if cooler conditions. The end days of the run do show a mobile Westerly Atlantic flow as a conveyor belt of troughs and disturbances run East across the UK in temperatures much closer to average for all.


In Summary tonight it still looks like a change to cooler weather is on the way. It looks like the first half of the week will see some residual heat with some thunderstorms in places before a gentle decline in temperature values looks odds on as winds turn to a fresher South-westerly later in the week with further showery rain at times. Once this more Atlantic borne weather establishes it looks like it could last for a time before we can look either SW or NE for our next spell of fine weather to hopefully develop as we move into August.


Originally Posted by: GIBBY 

Polar Low
20 July 2013 19:08:45

Thanks James Brillant as always.



Interesting stuff... I wonder if the models are tending to take energy NE too much post-144h just as we see with blocks to our E and NE in winter.


Imagine how the 12z ECM op run would have turned out if the energy hadn't gone NE from 144 to 168h... let alone of the initial trough was further west too! Perhaps a surprisingly large amount to play for here - just need to watch to see if trends continue i.e. whether the LP keeps shifting west with each new run, with a reduction in the overall westerly momentum.


I've read on NW that back in 2006, the models were showing a breakdown just as they are now, but the Atlantic incursion just got downgraded further and further until at 'the last minute' it became pretty much negligible with temps remaining hot either side of an outbreak of thunderstorms. For all I know it could go that way this time, though I wouldn't bet on it getting as far this time as the jet stream looks stronger on the 96-144h output compared to what can be inferred from archived model output (basing that on a few charts posted on NW though!).


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 

Gusty
20 July 2013 19:09:52


 


I've read on NW that back in 2006, the models were showing a breakdown just as they are now, but the Atlantic incursion just got downgraded further and further until at 'the last minute' it became pretty much negligible with temps remaining hot either side of an outbreak of thunderstorms. For all I know it could go that way this time, though I wouldn't bet on it getting as far this time as the jet stream looks stronger on the 96-144h output compared to what can be inferred from archived model output (basing that on a few charts posted on NW though!).


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


It did indeed SC and its happening again. IMO the jury is still out whether the cooler and fresher air will arrive next weekend. 


We shall see.


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
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Matty H
20 July 2013 19:13:53
It's looking like the projected temps of 35c a day or so back might be very tough to reach. Looking like 31, maybe 32 somewhere. Certainly higher humidity, so it will feel hotter. Looking more like high 20s for here on Monday, more like low 20s by Tuesday.
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