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Gavin P
21 July 2013 10:10:06



To be honest we could do with some rain to water the gardens so I don't mind a breakdown this week.

I can't see a rampant jet establishing itself across the UK either as it would be highly unusual to have a hot dry July followed by a cold wet August.

I think the heat will be back just give it time.

Andy

Originally Posted by: nouska 


It would be unusual by 20th century standards, but I've been looking back through the CET index and back in the 18th and 19th centuries (and theres some speculation that the solar cycles are taking us back to more of an 19th century type climate) it was more common to get freak hot months in otherwise cool summers.


Will be interesting to see what happens for August - Will be a VERY hard month to predict at this rate.


Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


I think that is absolutely the case - no cycles will ever be an identical repetition - the analogues can sometimes be a useful guide but not when they go back before charts exist. We can only use historical records and there are plenty of examples of what you mention.


On the here and now, GFS has been very persistent in modelling and progressing a hurricane for E Coast US -  a reminder that all bets are off with regard to patterns being easily predicted for the next couple of months.


Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


Yep. I did a bit of a September musing in a video the other day and said that Septeber is often the hardest month to forecast because of the hurricane season throwing the atmopshere into turmoil.


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
RavenCraven
21 July 2013 10:47:53


Am starting to get very fearful about the weather ahead.


Don't like dealing in hyperbole, but the GFS ensembles are incredibly wet and quite cool - and another washout August could well be on the cards.


I will be lifting anchor on my ark in the next few days.


Originally Posted by: Steam Fog 



"Very fearful" is a spell of rainy weather that worrying? Not really sure that the ensembles are "incredibly" wet are they? Wet yes, but nothing really extraordinary.

As for not wanting to deal in hyperbole, er.... ;)

Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Quite what I was thinking. It seems some want to jump on the drama train when in fact its nothing out of the ordinary. I would argue that it looks probable that settled and warm conditions are likely to return as August arrives.

IanK
21 July 2013 11:03:46



To be honest we could do with some rain to water the gardens so I don't mind a breakdown this week.

I can't see a rampant jet establishing itself across the UK either as it would be highly unusual to have a hot dry July followed by a cold wet August.

I think the heat will be back just give it time.

Andy

Originally Posted by: nouska 


It would be unusual by 20th century standards, but I've been looking back through the CET index and back in the 18th and 19th centuries (and theres some speculation that the solar cycles are taking us back to more of an 19th century type climate) it was more common to get freak hot months in otherwise cool summers.


Will be interesting to see what happens for August - Will be a VERY hard month to predict at this rate.


Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


I think that is absolutely the case - no cycles will ever be an identical repetition - the analogues can sometimes be a useful guide but not when they go back before charts exist. We can only use historical records and there are plenty of examples of what you mention.


On the here and now, GFS has been very persistent in modelling and progressing a hurricane for E Coast US -  a reminder that all bets are off with regard to patterns being easily predicted for the next couple of months.


Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


Sorry, what do you mean regarding a hurricane? Looking at GFS I can't see anything and the NHC isn't watching anything?


http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/


nouska
21 July 2013 12:09:22
@Ian K - the GFS has been modelling a hurricane over the last few runs eg 00Z (nothing showing on the 06Z)

http://images.meteociel.fr/im/8008/gfsnh-2013072100-0-348_agz6.png 

discussion here.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/MIAMIMATS.shtml 

LOOKING WAY AHEAD TO THE END OF THE WEEK...THE OPERATIONAL GFS
CONTINUES TO ADVERTISE A STRONG TROPICAL SYSTEM MOVING ACROSS THE
ATLC. WHILE CONSISTENT...THE GFS REMAINS A STARK OUTLIER WITH
EVERY OTHER MODEL INCLUDING THE ENSEMBLE GFS AND THE USUALLY
BULLISH CANADIAN. THIS SEEMS TO BE A CONVECTIVE FEEDBACK
ISSUE...AND THE OFFICIAL FORECAST FOR THE END OF THE WEEK FAVORS
THE ECMWF SHOWING AN OPEN WAVE WITH WINDS TO 25 KT. NWPS DOES NOT
GO THAT FAR IN TIME...SO FORECAST SEAS ARE HEAVILY MODIFIED FROM
THE WAY OVERDONE WW3 WITH MAXIMUM SEAS TO 9 FT IN THE AREA OF
STRONG WINDS.

My point was that model runs can be skewed by tropical systems that may or may not develop.



Ally Pally Snowman
21 July 2013 12:18:42

Above average until the 28th now. No Moomin floods on show for the South just yet. Although if you get a direct hit from a thunder storm could be some local flooding.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png


 


 


Much wetter further North and West though could be some big floods on the way for the NW imparticular.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_Manchester_ens.png


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Polar Low
21 July 2013 12:40:42

 6z gfs looks a very warm run for s/e no day lower than 24c untill next sunday



Above average until the 28th now. No Moomin floods on show for the South just yet. Although if you get a direct hit from a thunder storm could be some local flooding.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png


 


 


Much wetter further North and West though could be some big floods on the way for the NW imparticular.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_Manchester_ens.png


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

Polar Low
21 July 2013 13:03:56

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?ech=48&carte=2000


Tuesday looks a wet day occluded front almost stalls at times


 

Essan
21 July 2013 17:18:24


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?ech=48&carte=2000


Tuesday looks a wet day occluded front almost stalls at times


 


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 



A hot, humid day with thunderstorms.


Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
nickl
21 July 2013 17:26:47

can all the 12z's be wrong ?


very interesting developments. i wonder why all three main ops so far should go the same way when this goes against general guidance thus far. you would expect at least one of them to stay 'on message'.

Stormchaser
21 July 2013 17:27:08


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?ech=48&carte=2000


Tuesday looks a wet day occluded front almost stalls at times


 

Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


The snaking line is a trough line and as Essan says that means thunderstorms (well... potentially and in this case most probably)




The 12z model runs are showing a marked change regarding how the trough energy behaves next week. The strength of the jet has fallen, and the sharpness of the loop down south risen, enough that the energy can barely progress NE at all, with most or all of the surface troughing staying a good way to our SW, particularly on the 12z UKMO and GEM op runs.


This leaves it warm to very warm across much of the UK with some convective features drifting through at times in a very slack flow




The reduction in westerly momentum has been a sight to behold. This should make anyone think twice about taking GFS FI as even a vague indication of what we might have early in August...


To be fair to it, GEM keeps showing a ramp-up in the westerlies post day 6 as well. Even ECM has shown the odd chart reflecting a raging westerly that has since dissolved away.


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Gooner
21 July 2013 17:54:28



http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?ech=48&carte=2000


Tuesday looks a wet day occluded front almost stalls at times


 

Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


The snaking line is a trough line and as Essan says that means thunderstorms (well... potentially and in this case most probably)




The 12z model runs are showing a marked change regarding how the trough energy behaves next week. The strength of the jet has fallen, and the sharpness of the loop down south risen, enough that the energy can barely progress NE at all, with most or all of the surface troughing staying a good way to our SW, particularly on the 12z UKMO and GEM op runs.


This leaves it warm to very warm across much of the UK with some convective features drifting through at times in a very slack flow




The reduction in westerly momentum has been a sight to behold. This should make anyone think twice about taking GFS FI as even a vague indication of what we might have early in August...


To be fair to it, GEM keeps showing a ramp-up in the westerlies post day 6 as well. Even ECM has shown the odd chart reflecting a raging westerly that has since dissolved away.


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


Right over MBY


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Whether Idle
21 July 2013 18:29:49



http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?ech=48&carte=2000


Tuesday looks a wet day occluded front almost stalls at times


 

Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


The snaking line is a trough line and as Essan says that means thunderstorms (well... potentially and in this case most probably)




The 12z model runs are showing a marked change regarding how the trough energy behaves next week. The strength of the jet has fallen, and the sharpness of the loop down south risen, enough that the energy can barely progress NE at all, with most or all of the surface troughing staying a good way to our SW, particularly on the 12z UKMO and GEM op runs.


This leaves it warm to very warm across much of the UK with some convective features drifting through at times in a very slack flow




The reduction in westerly momentum has been a sight to behold. This should make anyone think twice about taking GFS FI as even a vague indication of what we might have early in August...


To be fair to it, GEM keeps showing a ramp-up in the westerlies post day 6 as well. Even ECM has shown the odd chart reflecting a raging westerly that has since dissolved away.


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


Well put.  There again, I have been saying that the end of the heatwave and fine weather was being overdone for the SE.  It looks warm and sunny for some punctuated by the odd shower right out to the edge of reason at 144.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Stormchaser
21 July 2013 18:48:04

In Jeff Master's wunderground blog comments today (an American weather blog, for those unfamilliar with it)  there is a strong suggestion that the GFS has been and continues to wrongly model the MJO heading into phase 1 later on in it's runs, and that this incorrect modelling is being driven by convective feedback errors.


If that is truly the case then GFS FI isn't even worth glancing at


Anyway...


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1442.gif


ECM has an even sharper loop south in the jet stream by the looks of things; the trough region is very enlongated N-S on day 5 and on day 6 this draws hot air back up across the SE. This is accompanied by a thundery feature moving up through western France to be just SE of the UK at noon on Saturday. Looks like another chance for some fireworks as the main trough acts to draw that feature to the NNW


ECM hasn't dug the energy as far SW as GFS and UKMO though. In fact, looking around, it's the furthest NE of all the models for day 6.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1682.gif


This is now slightly more progressive with the westerlies than GFS. In recent runs ECM has been the most reluctant model to dig th energy SW, and that continues this evening.


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Stormchaser
21 July 2013 18:56:49

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1922.gif


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2162.gif


The westerlies are notably weaker on this run with much less of a trough to our NW.


Given the massive downgrades in Atlantic energy that we keep seeing lately, this isn't actually all that surprising to me


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GIBBY
21 July 2013 19:41:37

Good evening. After a tiring day for me here is a shortened version of the normal evening review of the midday outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM. 


This week looks like starting very warm or hot and humid with an increasing risk of thundery rain and thunderstorms over the coming few days. By midweek a cooler and fresher SW feed will be making some inroads into the UK but overall the second half of the week looks warm too with occasional showers and still some thundery ones about but also some warm sunny spells too.


GFS then shows a warm and showery weekend before cooler Westerly winds develop over the second half of the output with occasional rain mixed with drier and brighter conditions when temperatures will reach normal values at least.


The GFS Ensembles show a breakdown in the coming week with the precipitation involved with the cooler air much more concentrated towards Central and Northern parts as warm High pressure is never a million miles away from more Southern areas at times.


The Jet Stream is cutting across the Atlantic towards the British isles where it turns North later in the week. In the extending output the flow crosses the UK on a West to East trajectory with cooler conditions for all then for a time.


UKMO tonight shows slack Low pressure well to the SW later in the week with warm weather still present for most though it would likely be less hot and humid than currently. For many there would still be some good dry and bright spells with warm sunshine while occasional and sometimes thundery showers will punctuate these periods almost anywhere.


GEM tonight shows a UKMO type projection at the end of the week moving on to maintain a showery spell of weather with the North the most likely to see the most showers while later it becomes cooler for all as Westerly winds and rain at times is shown to end the run with Low pressure located over Northern Britain.


NAVGEM today shows low pressure located to the NW of the UK in a slack way with light breezes for all. With dry and bright weather still likely for many with quite warm weather still in the SE there will be scattered showers, some of which would likely to be heavy, perhaps with thunder.


ECM tonight shows a showery weekend to come in 6 days time with the trend for showers to be concentrated towards more Northern areas as pressure rises slowly towards the SW at the end of the run. Temperatures, though cooler than of late will be still above average at times, especially at times in the South.


In Summary, though changes to cooler and more showery weather is still likely to follow the thundery spell of the coming days it will be far from a write off weather wise later in the week as many will maintain a lot of fine and reasonably warm weather with scattered and sometimes heavy showers. Longer term too unsettled weather is likely to figure in the forecasts with these synoptics but there will also be a fair amount of fine and dry weather still with sunny spells which will likely hold emphasis over anything wet.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



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Downpour
21 July 2013 19:49:52

To be honest we could do with some rain to water the gardens so I don't mind a breakdown this week.

I can't see a rampant jet establishing itself across the UK either as it would be highly unusual to have a hot dry July followed by a cold wet August.

I think the heat will be back just give it time.

Andy

Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 



Agreed. Just moved house and the lawn at the new place looks like it hasn't been watered since the start of the hot spell. Hoping for some good growing weather for a bit.

Chingford
London E4
147ft
nickl
21 July 2013 20:11:25
I guess todays op output reflects the upper trough being held west on the ens output. The pendulum can always swing back and forth. what the ecm 12z op does in fi is take the jet further north than the ens output has done (as did the 00z). The nett result is that the troughing in general seems quite shallow and conditions further south could be quite reasonable overall.
Steam Fog
21 July 2013 22:22:36
End of the week maxes of

25C in central and SE England on Thursday

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn9617.png 

26C in SE on Friday

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn12017.png 

27C on Sunday in NE England.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn13817.png 

ISTHERESNOW
21 July 2013 22:23:21
As with earlier posters I think it will be good to have some rain this week.. The grass in our field is now looking very poor and needs a good water....
Jiries
21 July 2013 23:06:03

End of the week maxes of

25C in central and SE England on Thursday

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn9617.png

26C in SE on Friday

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn12017.png

27C on Sunday in NE England.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn13817.png

Originally Posted by: Steam Fog 


It seem the trend of staying warm/hot to carry on in to early August as the weak LP remain stuck W of Ireland while in FI show cool and unsettled weather that was supposed to take place later next week/weekend only to be push back further into 2nd week.

Steam Fog
22 July 2013 06:12:09
Looking warm again next weekend.

A humid looking max of 29C in England next Saturday.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn13817.png 
GIBBY
22 July 2013 07:32:03

Good morning. Here is the early report on the midnight outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Monday July 22nd 2013.


All models show Low pressure out to the West and SW with hot and humid air over the UK with scattered thunderstorms developing through today and more extensively tomorrow. It will be very hot today in light winds. Through the oncoming days following this thundery phase the weather will slowly become cooler with rain showers becoming less thundery later in the week and perhaps becoming more restricted towards more northern and Western areas. Over the weekend Low pressure will close in on more Northern areas with cooler Westerly winds developing across the UK with troughs crossing East delivering rain at times followed by showers and average temperatures by then.


GFS delivers these more Westerly winds rather slower than some other output with the start of next week when cloud and rain crosses the UK with temperatures finally back down to average. Later in the output the unsettled weather continues for a time though a surge of warm weather would affect the South and East for a time as High pressure pushes warm and humid air across the South.


The GFS Ensembles indicate the fall off of the highest of temperatures over the next few days but keeps warm conditions in the South throughout this week before more average levels are achieved in more unsettled, cooler and Atlantic based weather.


The Jet Stream shows the flow crossing the Atlantic and hitting the buffers near the UK this week and being steered North across the UK to Northern Europe with the final Eastwards push looking more likely to occur at the start of next week.


UKMO today shows a trough to the West of the UK with a weak Southerly flow over the UK still feeding relatively warm and showery conditions across the UK but with some dry and warm sunny spells too and the risk of thunder would become less than it is currently.


GEM today shows low pressure to the SW at the weekend moving NE towards Scotland and engaging some sub tropical air spawning an active depression near the UK by Day 10 with strong winds and rain for all.


NAVGEM today shows the Low to the SW too late in the week and weekend with showers in places. After a cool down from the dizzy heights of recently it will still feel warm with mostly light winds and perhaps become very warm briefly in the SE again at the weekend.


ECM today shows Low pressure maintaining control over the UK through the start of next week with a centre somewhere over the North with showers or outbreaks of rain with temperatures much closer to average then.


In Summary today the pattern remains as before with Low pressure moving slowly in towards the UK later in the week. The result is that after the innitial stage of thundery weather a spell of bright weather with occasional less thundery showers will occur over the end of the week and weekend when though warm temperatures will fall back from the very high levels currently. As we look further into next week the weather looks like becoming more average for all with Westerly winds likely with occasional rain or showers and average temperatures but not precluding the chance of some dry and warmer spells in between, perhaps most likely in the South.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



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Charmhills
22 July 2013 07:35:09

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1442.gif


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rukm1441.gif


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1441.png


A warm/humid convective outlook this morning.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
RavenCraven
22 July 2013 07:57:39


 


Looks very nice to me. Perfect combination of warmth and thunder. 

Stormchaser
22 July 2013 08:34:00

The models are showing a huge plume building up through Europe on days 5 and 6, and a number of them are continuing to edge things further west with each new run.


Temps look to breach the mid-30's in central France next weekend. If we got some imports on a thundery low on Saturday... need I say more.


As potentially explosive as tomorrow is looking, it might not be the only time we go through it all in the next 7 days.


Temps look to remain in the mid-20's for a good part of the SE Wed-Fri before potentially climbing higher again on Saturday


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