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23 September 2013 09:20:00

All of the high resolution models showed clearless sky for all of England yesterday yet many parts of the south where shrouded in cloud the whole time.

Its making forecasting on my page impossible.

Stormchaser
23 September 2013 09:30:52

A robust Scandi High on days 7-10 from ECM this morning. Can't recall seeing one quite so strong and well-defined in September.


The model gets there through having the trough near Iceland on day 4 positioned a bit further west and then fizzling out by day 6, whereas GFS and UKMO have it further east and remaining much stronger.


In short, ECM has less energy in the northern arm of the jet even at just 4 days range.


While ECM can never be overlooked at that range, the lack of support from other models puts a big question mark over it's strong Scandi High.




GFS still finds a lot of high pressure to the NE despite drawing energy in that direction from the UK days 6-10. Perhaps this represents a strong background signal for higher heights there. FI does look like one of those where the sensible reaction is to expect the blocking to the NE to be more resilliant, holding back the Atlantic.


Then again, we are in the heart of autumn! Although we do seem to be a long way from a 'normal' autumn; the polar profile is more like something you'd expect to see in late winter/early spring.


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

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2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Zubzero
23 September 2013 10:16:16


All of the high resolution models showed clearless sky for all of England yesterday yet many parts of the south where shrouded in cloud the whole time.

Its making forecasting on my page impossible.


Originally Posted by: ManUtdMatt1986 


No they did not  


Here is what the NAE from Saturday evening for Sunday showed


http://expert-images.weatheronline.co.uk/daten/proficharts/en/nae/2013/09/21/basis18/ukuk/tcdc/13092212_2118.gif


 


 


 


 

23 September 2013 10:22:47



All of the high resolution models showed clearless sky for all of England yesterday yet many parts of the south where shrouded in cloud the whole time.

Its making forecasting on my page impossible.


Originally Posted by: Zubzero 


No they did not  


Here is what the NAE from Saturday evening for Sunday showed


http://expert-images.weatheronline.co.uk/daten/proficharts/en/nae/2013/09/21/basis18/ukuk/tcdc/13092212_2118.gif


 


 


 


 


Originally Posted by: ManUtdMatt1986 


Thats still not right as many away from the south had clearless sky.

Polar Low
23 September 2013 10:38:22

Harvest Freezer festival for parts of n/e europe some two hundred miles further west on 0z run.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=240&mode=0&map=1&archive=0

Polar Low
23 September 2013 10:47:40

Strong and good support for scadi from both at 500


 


http://www.meteo.psu.edu/~fxg1/ECMWF_0z/hgtcomp.html

nsrobins
23 September 2013 10:53:41


Harvest Freezer festival for parts of n/e europe some two hundred miles further west on 0z run.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=240&mode=0&map=1&archive=0


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


I like the new ECM anomaly charts.
A -12 or so 850T anomaly for C Europe at +240. Impressive.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Polar Low
23 September 2013 10:56:41
23 September 2013 11:00:37


Would rather we started to see hints of Northern Blocking in late November rather than late September. It would be wasted now.

turbotubbs
23 September 2013 11:25:45



Would rather we started to see hints of Northern Blocking in late November rather than late September. It would be wasted now.


Originally Posted by: ManUtdMatt1986 

While this is true in a sense, we have also seen lots of pattern repitition in recent times, and there is always the idea/hope that once a pattern gets locked, it is very hard to change it...

Russwirral
23 September 2013 14:39:37




Would rather we started to see hints of Northern Blocking in late November rather than late September. It would be wasted now.


Originally Posted by: turbotubbs 

While this is true in a sense, we have also seen lots of pattern repitition in recent times, and there is always the idea/hope that once a pattern gets locked, it is very hard to change it...


Originally Posted by: ManUtdMatt1986 


 


Too true when considering we spent 10-15 years locked in a mild spell of patterns.


 


I believe the coldish outlook is only the charts reaction to the shortening dalight hours.  We get this everyyear, the waters around our little island will quickly warm up any cold air enough to make it a wet snow affair if any does arrive. before the end of November.


 


Saying that its always a nice occurance when you get snow falling when each day is getting shorter knowing each day theres less chance of the snow melting than the last day.


Stormchaser
23 September 2013 14:40:51




Would rather we started to see hints of Northern Blocking in late November rather than late September. It would be wasted now.


Originally Posted by: turbotubbs 

While this is true in a sense, we have also seen lots of pattern repitition in recent times, and there is always the idea/hope that once a pattern gets locked, it is very hard to change it...


Originally Posted by: ManUtdMatt1986 


In recent years Russian/Scandinavian Highs have had a tendency to crop up further west with each new spell of high latitude blocking. That's been the case Nov-Feb but I'm not sure it can be applied as early as October... the Atlantic could rev up and push things east instead.


In fact, it's the tendency for the Atlantic to wind down that's allowed the blocking to our NE to influence the UK in recent years, and with the Atlantic often most active in December, that seems to be the explanation for the Russian/Scandinavian High behaviour.


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

https://twitter.com/peacockreports 
2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Charmhills
23 September 2013 17:14:39

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rukm1201.gif


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rukm1441.gif


Muggy and wet Met/o 12z:


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Jiries
23 September 2013 17:41:55

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rmgfs1504.gif


Growing trend for warmer Sunday here which an upgrade and temps would be higher than the current failing warm spell.

doctormog
23 September 2013 18:10:43

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rmgfs1504.gif 
Growing trend for warmer Sunday here which an upgrade and temps would be higher than the current failing warm spell.UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: Jiries 



And only 8 degrees colder here too so it's not all bad 😕 😝

As someone mentioned earlier (apologies as I can't remember who it was) there appears to be an unusual amount of high pressure/blocking at northern latitudes for the time of year in recent/current output.
Quantum
23 September 2013 18:52:46

http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/ecmimages/20130923/00/ecmt850.192.png


 


This is an insanely deep cold pool for early October. Don't think Ive ever seen anything like it. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Matty H
  • Matty H
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
23 September 2013 18:55:46

All of the high resolution models showed clearless sky for all of England yesterday yet many parts of the south where shrouded in cloud the whole time.

Its making the forecasts on my page wrong .

Originally Posted by: ManUtdMatt1986 




Tidied 😎 👅


Good to see the mild weather hanging on. It's felt rather muggy today.
Dingle Rob
23 September 2013 19:04:13





Would rather we started to see hints of Northern Blocking in late November rather than late September. It would be wasted now.


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 

While this is true in a sense, we have also seen lots of pattern repitition in recent times, and there is always the idea/hope that once a pattern gets locked, it is very hard to change it...


Originally Posted by: turbotubbs 


In recent years Russian/Scandinavian Highs have had a tendency to crop up further west with each new spell of high latitude blocking. That's been the case Nov-Feb but I'm not sure it can be applied as early as October... the Atlantic could rev up and push things east instead.


In fact, it's the tendency for the Atlantic to wind down that's allowed the blocking to our NE to influence the UK in recent years, and with the Atlantic often most active in December, that seems to be the explanation for the Russian/Scandinavian High behaviour.


Originally Posted by: ManUtdMatt1986 


 


Evident in August 1977 and repeated every month until March 1978 if my memory serves me correct. 

GIBBY
23 September 2013 19:18:19

Good evening. Here is the report on the midday outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Monday September 23rd 2013.


All models show High pressure close to the East of the UK gradually weakening over the coming days giving rise to some warm sunshine by day but thick fog in places overnight. A weak trough intensifies a little towards Northern Scotland tomorrow and on Wednesday a showery trough of Low pressure will move North across Western areas late in the day. Some rain for Scotland will sink South tomorrow while showery rain moves North over Western Britain later on Wednesday. Later in the week pressure continues to fall, especially over the South with an increasing threat from thundery rain or showers looking likely by Friday gradually extending North and East to other areas over the weekend. It will stay reasonably warm though until the weekend away from Northern Scotland where it may be rather cold for a time over the next 48hrs.


GFS shows Low pressure extending NE across the UK with rain at times, some of it heavy especially in the South. Through next weekend the weather stays changeable with some rain at times as Low pressure continues to track NE across the UK at times. Temperatures would remain close to average on the whole with a change to somewhat more settled weather shown at the end of the run as High pressure slowly builds in from the West with bright days and fog again at night.


UKMO tonight shows Low pressure gaining strength near Southern Britain with some heavy rain or showers here with any fine and dry weather becoming confined towards the North and East where a cool SE wind develops.


GEM shows a feed of Low pressure from the SW on several occasions from the end of the week out to the end of the run each one pushing rain bearing fronts North and East across most areas with the most rain across Southern and Western areas with drier and brighter interludes most likely in the East while near average temperatures look likely.


NAVGEM shows High pressure out to the NE while deep Low pressure lies to the SW with fronts crossing NE over the UK at times bringing outbreaks of heavy rain at times with just brief brighter intervals. The most rain will concentrate on Southern and Western areas while the best of the brighter spells should be towards the North and East away from North Sea coasts.


ECM shows Low pressure anchored close to SW Britain with troughs pushing NE across many areas on regular occasions. With the air from Southerly latitudes the air would be inherently warm though the sheer expanse of cloud cover for much of the time would restrict temperatures to average levels. This same warm source of air could make some of the rain very heavy and thundery at times.


The GFS Ensembles indicate the closest grouping between the members for some considerable time with solid support for a steady fall in uppers over the coming few weeks eventually reaching the seasonal average. After a few more dry days the risk of rain for all increases with some quite wet conditions possible at times through the weekend and next week.


The Jet Stream shows the flow to the North weakening and becoming obsolete over the coming few days before the flow relocates to the South of the UK where it looks to remain over the reliable time frame tonight.


In Summary tonight we have more or less universal support for a change to more unsettled and at times wet weather as Low pressure to the SW comes much closer to UK air space by the weekend. The rain looks like being heavy at times perhaps with thunder as the flow from Southern parts of the North Atlantic will be quite warm. As usual in these situations the heaviest rain will be in the South and West while the NE will possibly see less though with a cool SE breeze on the North Sea coast at times.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Phil G
23 September 2013 22:13:23
GFS still not giving up on the potential for some heavy rain at the weekend.
Gooner
23 September 2013 22:45:02

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn24017.png


You could still say warm, even 10 days out


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Jiries
23 September 2013 23:31:39


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn24017.png


You could still say warm, even 10 days out


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Normal for October to get some warm spells so in the meantime this weekend may end up warmer and sunnier than this current failed warm spell.  In term sunnier doesn't mean all day sunny but with southerly flow should bring decent sunlight than complete overcast and cooish that we got recently for no reason.

Jiries
23 September 2013 23:33:31

GFS still not giving up on the potential for some heavy rain at the weekend.

Originally Posted by: Phil G 


It had been downgraded now with only risk of showers as now they showing low 20's temps than mid to high teens and widespread washout days.

vince
23 September 2013 23:44:57


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn24017.png


You could still say warm, even 10 days out


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


 


Tidied up , just for you xx  LOL

vince
23 September 2013 23:47:04



http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn24017.png


You could still say warm, even 10 days out


Originally Posted by: Jiries 


Normal for October to get some warm spells so in the meantime this weekend may end up warmer and sunnier than this current failed warm spell.  In term sunnier doesn't mean all day sunny but with southerly flow should bring decent sunlight than complete overcast and cooish that we got recently for no reason.


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


 


Agree George , yesterday  was certainly a let down for sunshine here and the jubilation of 24 degrees forcasted all weekend for Monday

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