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Polar Low
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 6:25:39 PM
Phil G
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 6:56:25 PM
Charts have certainly been more interesting over the last few days with the output showing some quite cold air to the north and depressions moving NW to SE with occasional northerly winds following at times.
Whether Idle
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 7:55:46 PM


Well it's not a hugely significant cold 'snap' by any means but sub -8s at 850 in a stiff NE breeze will make it feel much more akin to early winter than Autumn.
2m tmaxes of around +4C on Wednesday next week will threaten wintry ppn especially at height I would think.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


In the context of many of the past 14 years worth of winters, a day with a max of +4 could have challenged as one of the coldest days of winter down south.  So I think some perceptions are warped by very recent memories of colder winters.  Set within a longer recent context,(1999 onwards) this forecast TMax is quite notable, but against 2009 onward it is not as notable.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Gooner
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 7:57:54 PM
Gooner
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 8:00:49 PM



Well it's not a hugely significant cold 'snap' by any means but sub -8s at 850 in a stiff NE breeze will make it feel much more akin to early winter than Autumn.
2m tmaxes of around +4C on Wednesday next week will threaten wintry ppn especially at height I would think.


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


In the context of many of the past 14 years worth of winters, a day with a max of +4 could have challenged as one of the coldest days of winter down south.  So I think some perceptions are warped by very recent memories of colder winters.  Set within a longer recent context,(1999 onwards) this forecast TMax is quite notable, but against 2009 onward it is not as notable.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


The last 4 winters IMBY have seen the works door shut each year due to poor weather , for me last year was notable by the lack of severe frosts, Banbury canal didnt freeze through the winter, which is quite rare....for recent years it has to be said .


4c would be welcome


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Chiltern Blizzard
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 8:04:37 PM



Well it's not a hugely significant cold 'snap' by any means but sub -8s at 850 in a stiff NE breeze will make it feel much more akin to early winter than Autumn.
2m tmaxes of around +4C on Wednesday next week will threaten wintry ppn especially at height I would think.


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


In the context of many of the past 14 years worth of winters, a day with a max of +4 could have challenged as one of the coldest days of winter down south.  So I think some perceptions are warped by very recent memories of colder winters.  Set within a longer recent context,(1999 onwards) this forecast TMax is quite notable, but against 2009 onward it is not as notable.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Was thinking something very similar.... pre-2009, this would have been vying for the main event of the "winter" in some years and many would have been excited at the thought of a flurry of sleety snow!  How things have changed!


Andrew


Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
GIBBY
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 8:40:50 PM

Good evening. Here is the evening report on the 12 midday outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Tuesday November 12th 2013.


All models shows the UK under a ridge of High pressure with light winds and frost overnight. Tomorrow will see the ridge cling on over the South while freshening Westerly winds bring rain and strong winds into the NW late tomorrow, moving quickly SE across all parts overnight and followed by strong NW winds and showers in the North and East. Through Thursday and Friday things calm down again across the South as High pressure builds again. Over the weekend the weather slowly changes again from the NW as freshening Westerly winds bring a trough down over the North on Saturday and the South on Sunday.


GFS then shows a cold Northerly flow for a day or two as we approach midweek next week with showers, wintry in the North. Pressure quickly builds though and milder air topples over the UK in a fresh Westerly wind with a lot of cloud and largely dry weather. Another cold surge sinks South behind a cold front attached to an intense Northern European Low pressure with another spell of squally wintry showers. Late in the run milder air again returns as each new High cell to the West sinks SE and opens the door to Atlantic milder conditions with a North/South split developing at the end of the run.


UKMO closes it's run with Low pressure moving SE close to Northern Scotland with a trough crossing East over the UK through Monday with rain and freshening winds for all in average temperatures.


GEM tonight also shows Low pressure slipping SE over the UK with cold and windy weather developing with rain giving way to wintry showers and probable night frosts. Conditions in the West would be better as High pressure moves in over these areas later with the addition of fog into the wintry mix by night and morning.


NAVGEM shows Low pressure slipping SSW over the UK early next week ending close to the SW of Britain with a chilly and cyclonic flow over the UK bringing rain bearing troughs and showers across the UK, perhaps wintry in the North.


ECM shows a cold Northerly flow developing behind a Low pressure area sinking South just to the East of the UK early next week. The weather will be unsettled with rain or showers at times and it will be cold enough for a time for wintry showers over the hills and maybe some lower ground in the North for a time. Late in the run as Low pressure fills and moves away from the South a ridge of High pressure develops over the UK with fog, dense and freezing in places becoming the likely weather issues for a time ahead of milder air poised to move in from the West over Northern areas following Day 10. 


The GFS Ensembles show nothing overly exciting for mild or cold lovers tonight as despite alternating milder and colder days the end result seems to be a very close to average mean for the run for areas North and South. Rainfall amounts though common are never particularly excessive and often of a showery nature. The operational was one of the colder options especially for Northern locations.


The Jet Stream shows the flow migrating North over the Atlantic over the coming days before the flow turns South over the UK early next week. In the longer term there is no clear cut indication of where the flow might lie beyond the middle of next week from tonight's output.


In Summary tonight the weather looks pretty likely to turn colder next week with a spell of unsettled weather when most observers will be looking for their first flakes of snow of the season. However, away from higher ground rain is more likely in the form of showers but over the hills of the north a covering is possible. It looks like it would only be a matter of days before the flow is cut off as pressure builds over or to the SW of the UK bringing the threat to a return of milder air into the North while Southern regions look likely to become under threat of some cold and foggy weather if High pressure remains close by. Frosts though will become a good deal more widespread and frequent in all areas than we have seen so far this Autumn.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Polar Low
Wednesday, November 13, 2013 7:02:31 AM

 


 Thing of beauty      and at the pole Epic!


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=216&mode=1&map=1&archive=0


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=240&mode=1&map=1&archive=0

Polar Low
Wednesday, November 13, 2013 7:07:25 AM

ukmo joins the party lovely heights tease at the pole lovely split


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?nh=1&ech=144&carte=1021


 

Polar Low
Wednesday, November 13, 2013 7:13:04 AM

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=234&mode=0&carte=1 


Never really?? ydin question I dont believe it

Charmhills
Wednesday, November 13, 2013 7:46:57 AM

Looks like a cold snap to me rather than a beginning of a cold spell.


http://www.jp2webdesign.co.uk/two/ensembles/


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Quantum
Wednesday, November 13, 2013 8:48:51 AM

I don't think the models really have a clue what's going on. I mean look at the GFS, actually pushing low pressure right over greenland, yet somehow still managing to maintain a northerly flow over the uk. There is very little consistancy between the models about what happens after the initial northerly either. But I think, if the HP fails to get towards greenland, then we are looking at something pretty transient. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
GIBBY
Wednesday, November 13, 2013 9:10:51 AM

Good morning everyone. Here is today's look at the midnight outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for Tuesday Noveember 13th 2013.


All models show that the weather will remain changeable between now and the start of next week as High pressure holds to the SW of Britain. Occasional cold fronts will cross SE, one such one overnight tonight and another on Sunday with rain for a time for all. Through this 5 day period temperatures will be close to normal but rather chilly at times in the North. Sunshine after today and tomorrow will be at a premium as cloudier skies from the Eastern Atlantic invade the UK over Friday and Saturday holding temperatures back somewhat even in the South at the weekend.


GFS then shows a spell of colder and unsettled conditions early next week with spells of rain with sleet or snow over the hills and the risk of overnight frosts as skies clear overnight. However, this situation doesn't last long as High pressure reverts to a position SW of the UK allowing milder Atlantic weather to return. As a result the rest of the run becomes a case of changeable and sometimes wet conditions with wind, rain and showers occurring for all areas periodically with temperatures close to average.


UKMO shows Low pressure up to the NE with a rather cold WNW flow with showers and sunny spells following a band of rain SE through the day on Tuesday. Snowfall will be reserved for the higher ground of the North.


GEM shows a more sustained cold period developing from early next week with Low pressure close to the East giving a cold Northerly airflow. A ridge then develops across the UK briefly with another surge of cold Northerlies as Low pressure deepens to the East of Britain at the end of the run. Rain or wintry showers would be the order of the day through the period with temperatures below average and frost developing at night as the ridge towards the end of the week allow skies to clear.


NAVGEM maintains it's quest of dropping Low pressure down to the West of Britain early next week with wet and windy weather with temperatures on the low side of average without ever being desperately cold. As a result of this the weather will be very unsettled and often wet in cyclonic winds. Snow would reserved mostly for the high ground of Scotland.


ECM today shows deep Low pressure migrating SE across the North Sea to SE Europe next week as pressure builds from the NW later. The weather will become cold and unsettled next week with rain or sleet at times and snow over all higher ground in a blustery and chilly wind from the North. Late in the run drier conditions move down from the NW with cold and frosty weather developing later with freezing fog problems likely to become an issue.


The GFS Ensembles clearly show a trend towards a rather colder and unsettled period next week. Things never become desperately cold however and any snowfall will be reserved for the hills of the North for the most part. The north look like it may become somewhat less chilly later while the SE appear to hang on to the rather chilly conditions for longer though at the outer limits of the run there is much spread between the members as normal.


The Jet Stream shows the flow ridging North high over the Atlantic at the moment and away across Northern Europe. Later in the weekend and next week it dives South across the UK and then some output shows it setting up a position to the South and West of the UK by the end of next week, this mostly shown by ECM.


In Summary today the weather is now more or less guaranteed to turn rather colder next week. With Low pressure close to the East and a fresh Northerly airflow it will feel much colder than anything we have experienced so far this season. There will be showers or longer spells of rain too moving through in the flow with some snowfall on all Northern hills and mountains with high level routes subject to some disruption. Longer term it looks likely that a change to more settled conditions from High pressure to the NW, (ECM) West, (GEM) or SW (GFS) is likely and depending on which solution is right will determine conditions over the UK. Any ridging from the NW will mean cold, frosty and foggy conditions being possible while from the SW would allow milder Atlantic winds to topple over the UK to return milder and cloudy conditions with occasional rain.


Transcript taken from:-http://www.norton-ra...is(2859336).htm


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
nsrobins
Wednesday, November 13, 2013 9:40:09 AM

Great summary as always Martin.

It's time to turn to the trusty ECM ensemble set to gauge confidence, and even on the 12Z set from yesterday there were some pretty cold options later in the period:
http://www.weathercast.co.uk/services/ensemble-forecast.html

This updates about 11Z for the 00Z run and I expect the operational to fall in the colder camp but with support.

A colder, seasonal regime now seems set for next week. How cold, and for how long is still open to invitation.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
David M Porter
Wednesday, November 13, 2013 9:40:25 AM

Has the ECM not updated on WZ? I'm still getting yesterday's 00Z ECM run on the WZ charts.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
nsrobins
Wednesday, November 13, 2013 9:57:29 AM

00Z run is on Meteociel David:
http://www.meteociel.com/modeles/ecmwf.php


Incidentally, I was in Asda last night and they are doing a pretty decent looking snow shovel for £8.
Wooden handle and stout plastic blade that looks like it might last


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
haghir22
Wednesday, November 13, 2013 10:15:49 AM


00Z run is on Meteociel David:
http://www.meteociel.com/modeles/ecmwf.php


Incidentally, I was in Asda last night and they are doing a pretty decent looking snow shovel for £8.
Wooden handle and stout plastic blade that looks like it might last


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 



YNWA
moomin75
Wednesday, November 13, 2013 10:31:51 AM

All is pointing to a good old-fashioned pre-2009 "toppler" to me.


A very brief cold blip before the milder weather returns.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Russwirral
Wednesday, November 13, 2013 10:42:41 AM


All is pointing to a good old-fashioned pre-2009 "toppler" to me.


A very brief cold blip before the milder weather returns.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


 


aye... remember those frustrating days well... :(


day 1... wet band - then clear... much colder later


day 2...heavy wintry showers Scotland NWales and later NE England


Day 3...Dry in the west Heavy wintry showers Eastern England


Day 4...Frosty...mild southwest


Day 5...Drizzle...with Snizzle for 30 mins over the moors... 


 


Rinse repeat


Ally Pally Snowman
Wednesday, November 13, 2013 10:45:40 AM

Starting to look very blocked a bit like the latest ECM. Massive potential!


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3001.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3601.png


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
moomin75
Wednesday, November 13, 2013 10:45:46 AM



All is pointing to a good old-fashioned pre-2009 "toppler" to me.


A very brief cold blip before the milder weather returns.


Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


 


aye... remember those frustrating days well... :(


day 1... wet band - then clear... much colder later


day 2...heavy wintry showers Scotland NWales and later NE England


Day 3...Dry in the west Heavy wintry showers Eastern England


Day 4...Frosty...mild southwest


Day 5...Drizzle...with Snizzle for 30 mins over the moors... 


 


Rinse repeat


Originally Posted by: moomin75 

Yep, that's pretty much it...and the rinse and repeat went on and on through December, January and February. Such was the synoptics of a "Modern Winter"!


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Hungry Tiger
Wednesday, November 13, 2013 10:52:00 AM



All is pointing to a good old-fashioned pre-2009 "toppler" to me.


A very brief cold blip before the milder weather returns.


Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


 


aye... remember those frustrating days well... :(


day 1... wet band - then clear... much colder later


day 2...heavy wintry showers Scotland NWales and later NE England


Day 3...Dry in the west Heavy wintry showers Eastern England


Day 4...Frosty...mild southwest


Day 5...Drizzle...with Snizzle for 30 mins over the moors... 


 


Rinse repeat


Originally Posted by: moomin75 



Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


ARTzeman
Wednesday, November 13, 2013 11:01:36 AM

Thanks Martin for the output.


Coldies will enjoy....






Some people walk in the rain.
Others just get wet.
I Just Blow my horn or trumpet
Steve Murr
Wednesday, November 13, 2013 11:19:14 AM
Morning all-

People still using the GFS then? I thought that had been abandoned last year due its performance which was worst than the throwing the grass in the air method-

ECM leads the way - with it it would seem UKMO and the crazy GEM
A notable cold spell on the way with the ECM at 240 demonstrating a split flow similar to the start of Nov 2010
Although to far away to give it to much credibility at the moment-

S
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