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Maunder Minimum
Monday, November 18, 2013 8:09:31 AM
Quantum
Monday, November 18, 2013 8:11:51 AM



It reminds me of one of those old lava lamps,


The way the HP cell plops up in the Atlantic to our north and detaches from the main body.


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Although NAVGEM and ECM now stand alone. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
roger63
Monday, November 18, 2013 8:37:44 AM




It reminds me of one of those old lava lamps,


The way the HP cell plops up in the Atlantic to our north and detaches from the main body.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Although NAVGEM and ECM now stand alone. 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


GFS has changed somewhat from yesterday.It had HP moving into the Atlantic around 180h but this morning HP is located further east north of UK and into Scandinavia though not as far north as the cold  ECM output.

GIBBY
Monday, November 18, 2013 9:01:20 AM

Good morning everyone. Here's my take on how the models are shaping up for the impending cold spell for this morning Monday November 18th 2013.


All models do indeed show an impending and probably prolonged cold period beginning today in the North and West and tonight elsewhere. The current cloudy and dull conditions across the South with some light rain will be pushed away SE this evening and tonight then all areas will be covered by a NW flow with wintry showers affecting all Northern and Western areas with settling snow on the hills and frost and icy roads elsewhere. This lasts until Wednesday when a new Low moves down the North Sea with a spell of strong winds and rain preceded and followed by the risk of snow over the hills as it pulls away South on Thursday. High pressure builds in across Northern areas particularly by the end of the week with frost and fog widespread by night with cold crisp days where fog clears. In the South more of a NE or East wind looks likely to persist removing the risk of wide scale fog but keeping some cloud and the possibility of wintry showers instead, especially near the SE coast.


GFS shows the South cold and breezy through the weekend while northern areas stay brighter and cold with frost and fog patches. It should stay largely dry though. The status-quo persists through much of the remainder of the run though the Easterly flow in the South is shown to veer SE and decrease as renewed High pressure then settles the whole of the UK into fine and cold weather at the end with further frost and more widespread fog problems.


UKMO this morning ends it's run with High pressure positioned over Northern Scotland with ridges to Iceland, Scandinavia and the Azores. A cold NE flow is maintained across the South with largely dry conditions apart from the odd wintry shower near the Coast. Elsewhere would be dry, bright and sunny by day with frost and freezing fog patches overnight, likely to be slow to clear in places.


GEM today has a more UK based High pressure area over the weekend and the start of next week with frost and fog widespread in light winds. Towards the end of the run the High is shown to pull slowly NW introducing a cold NE feed across Southern and Eastern England with a few showers by midweek next week.


NAVGEM keeps High pressure much further NW, near Iceland which keeps all of the UK under a cold and wintry North then NE flow with wintry showers all down Eastern coasts throughout and spreading well inland at times towards Central areas. The West would stay largely dry with clear or sunny spells but it would be cold for all with widespread night frosts though little fog from this set-up.


ECM builds High pressure in temporarily from the West and NW to affect all but the far SE towards the weekend with a cold, dry period with frost and patchy fog for all Western and Northern areas in particular. Eastern and SE coastal areas will continue with an onshore NE wind bringing the risk of the odd wintry shower. Then as the High retracts North towards Northern Scandnavia an unstable, fairly light but cold Easterly flow will increase the threat of wintry precipitation late in the run, more especially for Southern and Eastern areas.


The GFS Ensembles show that any mild weather is fairly unlikely through the forecast period. It is therefore more likely to trend rather colder than average overall with not much in the way of rain indicating the proximity of High pressure to the UK. The High's position is mandatory for cold weather over the UK and most do trend for it to be towards the North giving the UK a good chance of seeing some early winter chill.


The Jet Stream today shows the flow buckling South across the UK to feed a Southern arm of the flow over Southern Europe. A split flow is shown later in the week before the pattern become diffuse and unclear next week.


In Summary today the models have taken a step forward towards a more cold prospect being maintained over the UK for the majority of the period at least. With a much increased trend to show High pressure to the North of the UK it leaves the gates open for Northerly or Easterly incursions to envelope the UK aided by Low pressure over Southern Europe. There is a rather unsettled period to get through during the middle of this week before the pattern will clarify further but as it stands cold weather looks set to stay for quite a while and though mostly High pressure based ECM and NAVGEM show the possibility of a much more unstable NE flow setting up with the chance of some wintriness scattered about towards the end of the outputs. Frosts look like becoming widespread but with the prospect of High pressure staying just offshore to the North of the UK the slightly stronger breeze may limit this somewhat from what was being shown recently.


Transcript taken from:-http://www.norton-radstockweather.co.uk/Model-Analysis(2859336).htm


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Polar Low
Monday, November 18, 2013 9:19:13 AM

Thanks Martin

Polar Low
Monday, November 18, 2013 9:29:13 AM

Thanks James you can see that nicely here


http://www.meteo.psu.edu/~fxg1/ECMWF_0z/hgtcomp.html


You can also see how important the energy in Europe plays on ecm it ridges here up to the pole  between energy in Europe and at Canada also the important alignment has changed over the last few runs.



http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/ecmimages/20131118/00/npsh500.240.png


Remarkable to see the PV so broken and depleted on the ECM 00z op run!


It and GFS diverge by just 96 hours, with GFS insisting on having the Atlantic energy pile into Greenland while ECM instead focuses the energy on a new trough over Canada.


That's crucial to allowing the high pressure to stand tall on the ECM run.


http://www.meteociel.fr/ukmo/archives/2013111800/UW144-21.GIF


UKMO is almost right with ECM this morning, but the trough into Scandi doesn't dig south as much. At the same time, low pressure in the Atlantic is supressed further south, so a cut-off wedge of higher heights near Iceland is not out of the question shortly beyond day 6.


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 

Ally Pally Snowman
Monday, November 18, 2013 9:39:23 AM

The latest Met Office update is completely different to what the ECM is showing so something has to give soon.


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Polar Low
Monday, November 18, 2013 9:44:22 AM

Complete mess from gfs members I guess it cant handle that pressure rise as many starting to pick that up has a lot to do to get the right solution what ever that is of course.


 


Many more cold runs in the mix and for longer.


http://www.jp2webdesign.co.uk/two/ensembles/


 

Andy Woodcock
Monday, November 18, 2013 10:02:03 AM
Wow ECM at +240 is a peach with a scandy and arctic high, doesn't get much better than that.

It will not verify like that of course but indicates that continued northern blocking is likely and the November CET end up below average.

Andy
Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
The Beast from the East
Monday, November 18, 2013 10:03:24 AM

Overall, things looking better this morning. GFS is gradually coming round to the idea of more amplification.


NAVGEM has been very consistent throughout


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
White Meadows
Monday, November 18, 2013 10:03:47 AM


The latest Met Office update is completely different to what the ECM is showing so something has to give soon.


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

 


You mean the written 3-5 Day'er?


Seems to tie in with what ECM shows as far as I can see.


UKMO is consistent with ECM up to 144hrs 


Ally Pally Snowman
Monday, November 18, 2013 10:04:08 AM

Apparently the MOGREPS 15 yesterday was showing a return to SW or zonal and temps back to average. This is obviously why the Meto forecast is so poor. Lets hope the MOGREPS sees the light and starts following the ECM. This has been known in the past.


 


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
ARTzeman
Monday, November 18, 2013 10:06:11 AM

Thanks Martin.


Bright and cold up to the  end of the month...






Some people walk in the rain.
Others just get wet.
I Just Blow my horn or trumpet
Ally Pally Snowman
Monday, November 18, 2013 10:07:52 AM



The latest Met Office update is completely different to what the ECM is showing so something has to give soon.


 


Originally Posted by: White Meadows 

 


You mean the written 3-5 Day'er?


Seems to tie in with what ECM shows as far as I can see.


UKMO is consistent with ECM up to 144hrs 



Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


I think its still yesterdays 6 - 16 dayer which says a return to average and zonal. This is what the MOGRPS was showing apparently so we need it to switch to a more ECM like pattern today.


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Polar Low
Monday, November 18, 2013 10:19:50 AM

when you look at both the 0z means the adjustments between the big 2 are coming together and look much smaller than the opps  hinting that ecm is on the right route at that time.


ecm opp is very close to its mean at that time.


means


gfs


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rnz500m6.html


ecm


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem1441.html


 


 


 

nsrobins
Monday, November 18, 2013 10:34:37 AM

Is it too early for the ECM De Bilts?


http://www.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/vijftiendaagse/Data/15DAAGSE_06260_NWT.png


Mean around zero for next week.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
nickl
Monday, November 18, 2013 11:14:59 AM


Is it too early for the ECM De Bilts?


http://www.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/vijftiendaagse/Data/15DAAGSE_06260_NWT.png


Mean around zero for next week.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


is it neil ?  min yes but the mean is around +2 for the week?

nsrobins
Monday, November 18, 2013 11:26:16 AM



Is it too early for the ECM De Bilts?


http://www.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/vijftiendaagse/Data/15DAAGSE_06260_NWT.png


Mean around zero for next week.


Originally Posted by: nickl 


is it neil ?  min yes but the mean is around +2 for the week?


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


You are quite right - when it comes to De Bilt I have selective blindness 

Waiting on the ENS plot as I think we might start to see a split for next week with a trend to hold the block to the North from more members.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Gavin P
Monday, November 18, 2013 1:52:32 PM

Hi all,


Here's today's video update;


Very Cold ECMWF Run Today;


http://www.gavsweathervids.com


Other models nowhere near as cold, of course, but still some nice eye candy.


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
Quantum
Monday, November 18, 2013 3:35:47 PM

And the NAVGEM has left the party, leaving the ECM0 as the sole member of the cold club. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
nouska
Monday, November 18, 2013 3:43:54 PM
Don't expect much continuity till the track of Melissa is resolved - the optimum will be a burst of WAA if the far west track is the correct route.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/storm_graphics/AT14/refresh/AL1413W5_NL+gif/143939W5_NL_sm.gif 
Russwirral
Monday, November 18, 2013 3:53:15 PM

[quote=nouska;551157]Don't expect much continuity till the track of Melissa is resolved - the optimum will be a burst of WAA if the far west track is the correct route. http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/storm_graphics/AT14/refresh/AL1413W5_NL+gif/143939W5_NL_sm.gif[/quote]


 


Current Target - Greenland.


 


Nice :)


Gandalf The White
Monday, November 18, 2013 4:17:40 PM


Thanks for that. 


Looking at the latest GFS run Melissa looks to be picked up by an upper and surface low exiting Newfoundland at T+66 which gives it some extra energy before it tracks towards Greenland.


Melissa at T+48:


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013111812/gfsnh-0-48.png?12 


Upper low at T+66:


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013111812/gfsnh-0-66.png?12 


Merged system at T+84:


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013111812/gfsnh-0-84.png?12 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


The Beast from the East
Monday, November 18, 2013 4:18:04 PM

GFS not budging. Oh dear. I feel a bad evening coming on


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
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