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Gandalf The White
10 December 2013 23:46:44


Bitterly cold, raging easterly wind's on the way for christmas. The cold will be so brutal that it will last till the end of time and affect all parallel universes 


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/cfs/runs/2013121006/run1m/cfs-0-384.png?06


Originally Posted by: Zubzero 


I posted about this earlier - it was the 06z run and sadly but predictably it's gone on the 12z.


The 12z evolution takes the LP on a more northerly track and it doesn't stall, so there's no WAA to create the block. The surface high tries to form but stays as a ridge that gets shunted eastwards.


Several runs today have hinted at stalling low pressure and that is one of the key ingredients to breaking the emerging pattern of Atlantic dominance.  I think Nick alluded to this earlier this evening.  A stalling LP opens up the possibility of WAA to give some height rises to our north and the potential for a slider/triple point low to take some energy SE.


Still a long shot but it will be interesting to see if that evolution gathers support or gets lost.


Edit: and bang on cue, the 18z control run delivers this for Xmas Day


SP/500hPa: http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gensnh-0-1-348.png?18



Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


tallyho_83
10 December 2013 23:51:33
https://www.google.co.uk/#q=london+weather&undefined=undefined 
Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Gandalf The White
10 December 2013 23:51:47

https://www.google.co.uk/#q=london+weather&undefined=undefined

Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


I think snow grains at 6C has to be an error.  The uppers are higher than that and I doubt there's a layer anywhere above that is below freezing.


 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


tallyho_83
10 December 2013 23:55:29
Someone said that there was a snow shower (Quantum).

Back to the charts - looks bloody awful - no change for two weeks just 11-12c by day for most of England!? 😞
Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Quantum
11 December 2013 00:05:31


https://www.google.co.uk/#q=london+weather&undefined=undefined

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


I think snow grains at 6C has to be an error.  The uppers are higher than that and I doubt there's a layer anywhere above that is below freezing.


 


Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


The temps in the london area are variable, but as low as minus three in freezing fog patches. I think the snow grains are real, caused by very low cloud or fog. I don't think there is any need for cold uppers, as this is going on right at the surface. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Gandalf The White
11 December 2013 00:10:56



https://www.google.co.uk/#q=london+weather&undefined=undefined

Originally Posted by: Quantum 


I think snow grains at 6C has to be an error.  The uppers are higher than that and I doubt there's a layer anywhere above that is below freezing.


 


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


The temps in the london area are variable, but as low as minus three in freezing fog patches. I think the snow grains are real, caused by very low cloud or fog. I don't think there is any need for cold uppers, as this is going on right at the surface. 


Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


Yes, but the report said +6C.  I don't see how the air could be cold enough above, given that we're talking about an inversion?


 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Quantum
11 December 2013 00:17:34




https://www.google.co.uk/#q=london+weather&undefined=undefined

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


I think snow grains at 6C has to be an error.  The uppers are higher than that and I doubt there's a layer anywhere above that is below freezing.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


The temps in the london area are variable, but as low as minus three in freezing fog patches. I think the snow grains are real, caused by very low cloud or fog. I don't think there is any need for cold uppers, as this is going on right at the surface. 


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Yes, but the report said +6C.  I don't see how the air could be cold enough above, given that we're talking about an inversion?


 


Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


Yes but other reports from london come in with temps below freezing. The temp seems to drop sharply in patches of freezing fog. Actually its pretty dam wierd with a local 10C range in temps, I suspect the temp and the precip were recorded at slightly different times, hence the discrepancy. Or perhaps the sensors were placed differently, perhaps the thermometer was 30m up and the snow grains came out for fog in a ridiculously shallow inversion?


 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
nouska
11 December 2013 00:22:43
Is this not the type of conditions that can lead to 'industrial snow' - temperature inversion with pockets of freezing fog.
Rob K
11 December 2013 01:01:22

Lol why we are all miserably looking at terrible charts, London has just had a light snow shower!!!

Originally Posted by: Deep Powder 



Where? Nothing on meto radar......have to check me lamppost!

Originally Posted by: Quantum 



Came out of my work Xmas party and my phone was saying "flurries" as current weather. Actually freezing fog over the Thames. Felt very seasonal and atmospheric with a shallow layer of fog and the spires of St Paul's and the Shard poking through above. Didn't see any snow grains but quite possible. Certainly below freezing at the surface.

Edit: see current conditions thread for a pic
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
roger63
11 December 2013 06:51:26

This mornings 0h GFS ensembles  show an Atlantic rout compared to yesterday with HP pushed away to  SE Europe.


Figures for circulation type over UK  on xmas day are  (yesterday 0h in brackets)


Zonal 90%(65%),Anticyclonic 10%(35%).

nsrobins
11 December 2013 07:22:45

Reading about the excitement that the potential sighting of an unexpected snow grain generates just about sums it up at the moment.


The over-riding theme - average to mild, some rain at times, windy too in the North especially, but some benign conditions around towards the South - continues this morning and is set to last through Christmas at least.


If that's what you like, then good luck to you.

Personally, it's bo****ks and I'm not afraid to say it


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Retron
11 December 2013 07:29:37


The over-riding theme - average to mild, some rain at times, windy too in the North especially, but some benign conditions around towards the South - continues this morning and is set to last through Christmas at least.


If that's what you like, then good luck to you.

Personally, it's bo****ks and I'm not afraid to say it


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Yes, it's a shame IMO that the Continental feed isn't going to linger for longer. What's not to like about sunny days and crisp, frosty nights? It's a damned sight better than zonal dross in my view (as that just brings mildness down here), but that's what's on the menu from a couple of days time to - well, as far as the eye can see at the moment. The ECM control run last night showed zonality from a couple of days time all the way to T+360, which if it were to happen would write off a sixth of winter in one fell swoop!


The only hope once zonality arrives is that the models are over-cooking the strength of the jet and that the zonal train won't be running for as long as is currently forecast.


 


Leysdown, north Kent
doctormog
11 December 2013 07:53:58
To be honest the status quo is just great. Very mild nights and dry, settled and mild days. What's not to like in terms of practicality, comfort and heating bills? Sure snow would be great, but having seen two (albeit small falls) so far this season I'm happy for the mild conditions to continue for a while. Which, to stay on topic, is essentially what the models show.

The one fly in the ointment is the fact that more unsettled conditions are likely at times in the coming week. (And with that more average conditions in terms of temperature).


GIBBY
11 December 2013 08:07:22

Good morning folks. Here's how I see the 12 midnight outputs of GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Wednesday December 11th 2013.


All models show a slack Southerly flow with a continental influence in the SE making for a foggy start for many with a touch of frost under clear skies for others. Elsewhere the air will be maritime and milder with a lot of cloud and some rain in the far NW. Through tonight cloud will extend East to many areas and troughs will begin to make headway across the British isles from tomorrow changing the weather to more changeable with rain at times, principally on Friday and Sunday with a colder and drier interlude lasting through Saturday as a ridge crosses by from the West.


GFS then shows all of next week with Low pressure out to the NW and troughs rushing NE across the UK in a strong to gale force SW flow. rain at times would occur everywhere and it could be very wet in the NW with copious totals through the period over hills and mountains. There will be less rain in the SE at first though even here towards the end of the run it will become very wet and potentially stormy at times as we move towards Christmas. A white Christmas looks unlikely away from Scottish mountains due to temperatures being near to or above average throughout.


UKMO closes it's run today showing a Low pressure trough swinging East across the UK next Tuesday with some rain and wind for all before clearer and colder conditions temporarily spreads in from the West through the day.


GEM is similar on Tuesday before an intense Atlantic depression spawns some powerful Low pressure areas which zip NE across the heart of the UK later with rain and storm force winds at times followed by squally showers on a strong Westerly breeze. Though technically quite mild in would feel cold in the strength of the wind and rain which in itself could be copious at times.


NAVGEM this morning shows Low pressure well to the NW in a week's time but with a strong SW flow over the UK ahead of a squally trough moving it's way slowly SE across the UK through next Wednesday. It would remain mild for many through the day.


ECM offers very changeable conditions next week with spells of strong and mild SW winds alternating with brighter and drier interludes when it would be briefly less mild. Overall the heaviest rain would be to the NW with the longest dry spells towards the SE.


The GFS Ensembles today show complete support for a relatively mild and unsettled spell to commence this weekend and last until Christmas at least. With winds often strong and from the SW the wettest weather will be in the North and West but even the SE will see some heavy rain at times if this run is to verify.


The Jet Stream remains very strong throughout the run and maintaining it's NE orientation firstly located NW of Britain but moving further SE over the UK and on towards Scandinavia next week keeping the UK under the influence of mild and string Atlantic winds throughout.


In Summary today there is an unsettled spell on the way. As the High to the SE migrates further away several hundred miles the UK is able to tap into more in the way of Atlantic mobility and aided by a powerful Jet Stream there is the potential for some powerful storm systems to develop over the North Atlantic and the North of Britain over the period. Details differ between the output but the general message is plenty of wet and windy weather to come with the usual caveats that the heaviest rain will be in the North and West while the SE sees the best of any drier interludes while all areas are at risk of gales, severe at times. It will remain generally mild though a few days of colder weather may be thrown in at times behind cold fronts when temperatures return to average briefly.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
ARTzeman
11 December 2013 08:13:05

Thank you Martin for the good output..


A warning to heed for some.






Some people walk in the rain.
Others just get wet.
I Just Blow my horn or trumpet
Arbroath 1320
11 December 2013 08:15:24

To be honest the status quo is just great. Very mild nights and dry, settled and mild days. What's not to like in terms of practicality, comfort and heating bills? Sure snow would be great, but having seen two (albeit small falls) so far this season I'm happy for the mild conditions to continue for a while. Which, to stay on topic, is essentially what the models show.

The one fly in the ointment is the fact that more unsettled conditions are likely at times in the coming week. (And with that more average conditions in terms of temperature).

Originally Posted by: doctormog 



Totally agree. Love the cold and snow but these mild sunny days are not so bad.

Looking at the GFS 0z ensembles for Aberdeen there are only the briefest of incursions below the -5 850 hPa line throughout the period which is pretty remarkable for the time of year. So nothing remotely cold on the horizon with the Euro High anchored in position for the foreseeable future.
GGTTH
Rob K
11 December 2013 08:22:23
Just goes to show - 2 or 3 days ago everyone was saying how the charts were showing HP influencing us as far as the eye can see, how boring etc etc, now the charts have changed completely! Ok they have changed to another uninspiring weather type, but still people are saying how the weather is set in stone for three weeks even though we have just seen how they can flip within a couple of days!
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
marcus72
11 December 2013 09:27:31

Just goes to show - 2 or 3 days ago everyone was saying how the charts were showing HP influencing us as far as the eye can see, how boring etc etc, now the charts have changed completely! Ok they have changed to another uninspiring weather type, but still people are saying how the weather is set in stone for three weeks even though we have just seen how they can flip within a couple of days!

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

 


I agree completely Rob. This was exactly the feeling I had at the end of last week when all the signs pointed to a couple of weeks of HP dominated weather. I had a hunch we'd be looking at a very different forecast by this morning....



Posted: 06 December 2013 10:29:43


On the face of it the models would certainly appear to be showing a “locked in” pattern for some time to come. There are also plenty of members on here who have far more experience and knowledge than I do when it comes to interpreting the medium to long range forecasts. However, I just can’t help feeling that by the middle of next week we’ll be looking at something completely different. There’s just something about the “certainty” of it all this morning that makes me feel mother nature is going to stick two fingers up to all the super-computers and their respective outputs. I have no idea whether it’ll be a cold easterly or a mild and stormy attack from the Atlantic but this scenario just looks ripe for something to pop up out of nowhere and surprise us all.


Sorry, I know this is the model output thread and not the “I have a hunch” thread but with the output looking so dull I hope the mods don’t mind. It could actually be another one of those occasions that remind us not to be too confident, no matter what the models are showing. I may be eating my words come Wed but I’ll be watching with interest.


Purely from an IMBY perspective I’d be happy to take another week or two of high pressure influenced weather, as I look out on another beautiful clear and dry winters day.


Langstone, SE Hampshire
nsrobins
11 December 2013 09:52:23

Everyone full of Christmas spirit I see

My advice is to just take a quick peek every now and then and when you conclude that the westerly regime is set to continue, get back to the beer and cricket.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Arcus
11 December 2013 10:01:46


Everyone full of Christmas spirit I see

My advice is to just take a quick peek every now and then and when you conclude that the westerly regime is set to continue, get back to the beer and cricket.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


That's not going to provide much in the way of Seasonal cheer I fear Neil 


Some quite potent lows being progged by some of the models in the mid to longer term. I fear for some of the neighbours festive light displays.


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
nsrobins
11 December 2013 10:18:03



Everyone full of Christmas spirit I see

My advice is to just take a quick peek every now and then and when you conclude that the westerly regime is set to continue, get back to the beer and cricket.


Originally Posted by: Arcus 


That's not going to provide much in the way of Seasonal cheer I fear Neil 


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


No but it's an excuse for a beer - not that I need one.

Yes Ben several daughter lows are modelled to spin around the main vortex in the next week or so threatening the North especially with strong winds at times.
Actually if you run through the charts as a movie the way those small lows spin around the parent low reminds me of multiple vortices around a tornadic core. Mind you, I think of tornados when I empty the bath so it doesn't take much


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
nsrobins
11 December 2013 10:30:16

ECM De Bilts 11.12.13


 (cold, seasonal, proper and 'appropriate' winter weather fans)

 (weird people who like wind, rain and mild clammy rubbish)



 


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Gandalf The White
11 December 2013 11:10:23

Just goes to show - 2 or 3 days ago everyone was saying how the charts were showing HP influencing us as far as the eye can see, how boring etc etc, now the charts have changed completely! Ok they have changed to another uninspiring weather type, but still people are saying how the weather is set in stone for three weeks even though we have just seen how they can flip within a couple of days!

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


I don't think everyone was saying that?   I have been posting for quite a few days that the ECM ensembles were signalling the retreat of the Euro high pressure and that's what we've got showing up in the model output now.


The ensembles are not correct the whole time, as we know, and major pattern changes can appear but as a general rule they're a decent guide to the general weather type.


I don't see any evidence of blocking this side of Xmas and, in all probability not this side of the New Year.


I see GFS has developed the recent trend of showing some modest stratospheric warming on our side of the Pole.


T+240: http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013121106/gfsnh-10-240.png?6


T+360: http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013121106/gfsnh-10-360.png?6


The warming on the Asian side is still there and the PV i sbeing squeezed between the two.  Someone with more knowledge might be able to comment on the possible consequences.  Looking at the output the jetstream is on a more southerly track and quite intense:


T+240: http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013121106/gfsnh-5-240.png?6


T+360: http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013121106/gfsnh-5-360.png?6


That might be an encouraging sign that we can get some colder air our way - or it might just be an encouraging sign for makers of fence panels.....


 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Gandalf The White
11 December 2013 11:11:25


ECM De Bilts 11.12.13


 (cold, seasonal, proper and 'appropriate' winter weather fans)

 (weird people who like wind, rain and mild clammy rubbish)



 


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Careful Neil, you'll have Matty on your case...



Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


warrenb
11 December 2013 11:15:37
Looking a the 6z I will be getting a new fence for Christmas.
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