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Charmhills
13 December 2013 10:05:03

Looks like a very unsettled period of weather coming up leading upto Christmas and possibily beyound.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Rob K
13 December 2013 10:54:44


Those storms will be feeding off deep cold generated by record U.S. snowcover, as it clashes with mild TM air in the Atlantic. Gradually, the thermal gradient will decline, as the Atlantic cools, but that still leaves the potential for a fortnight of fury.


 


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


Sounds like a Daily Express headline!


 


The 06Z GFS continues the theme of the 00Z with a chunk of the vortex heading in our direction: http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3601.png


If that was true then the potential is there for a rather wintry spell after Christmas and into the new year.


 


Eg


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3841.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3842.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn38417.png


(usual caveats apply!)


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
tallyho_83
13 December 2013 10:59:16
Finally a colder FI on the OP run:

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn38417.png 


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Russwirral
13 December 2013 11:02:04
well then... potential for some snow around xmas day has dramatically increased.

nest few runs will be interesting.


Rob K
13 December 2013 11:15:05

well then... potential for some snow around xmas day has dramatically increased.

nest few runs will be interesting.

Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


Yes the charts are looking rather similar to Xmas 2004 which provided some surprise snowfall for quite a few.


 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/archive/ra/2004/Rrea00120041225.gif


 


Remember when the ensembles were more or less 100% boring dull HP right out until the solstice? A lot can change in a week!


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Brendon Hills Bandit
13 December 2013 11:33:09
Still very far off of course, but I hope that it does snow around the Christmas/New year week, I think that it is the 'perfect' time for snow - festive feel etc., people on holiday and not travelling/working. Looks like there will deffo be a westcountry blizzard around new year LOL.
220m asl, edge of Brendon Hills
kmoorman
13 December 2013 12:04:41

Still very far off of course, but I hope that it does snow around the Christmas/New year week, I think that it is the 'perfect' time for snow - festive feel etc., people on holiday and not travelling/working. Looks like there will deffo be a westcountry blizzard around new year LOL.

Originally Posted by: Brendon Hills Bandit 


 


The latest GFS is showing the Polar Vortex moving SE towards the UK in a number of members.  Interesting for the run up to the New Year.


Home: Durrington, Worthing, West Sussex. (16 ASL)
Work: Canary Wharf, London
Follow me on Twitter @kmoorman1968
JACKO4EVER
13 December 2013 12:11:21


Still very far off of course, but I hope that it does snow around the Christmas/New year week, I think that it is the 'perfect' time for snow - festive feel etc., people on holiday and not travelling/working. Looks like there will deffo be a westcountry blizzard around new year LOL.

Originally Posted by: kmoorman 


 


The latest GFS is showing the Polar Vortex moving SE towards the UK in a number of members.  Interesting for the run up to the New Year.


Originally Posted by: Brendon Hills Bandit 


Possibly good for Northern members with a little evevation, otherwise such synoptics often bring very wet and miserable weather to vast areas of England and Wales. Looking at most model output this morning, I fear we could be in for a very wet spell of weather regardless of mild or cool- and the wind will undoubtedly start to make the headlines.

Gavin P
13 December 2013 12:23:21

Hi all,


Here's today's video update;


JMA Friday (13/12/13)


http://www.gavsweathervids.com


A look at the month ahead and then beyond with the Korean model.


Have to say, things aren't looking terribly inspiring this winter.


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
Russwirral
13 December 2013 12:36:52



Still very far off of course, but I hope that it does snow around the Christmas/New year week, I think that it is the 'perfect' time for snow - festive feel etc., people on holiday and not travelling/working. Looks like there will deffo be a westcountry blizzard around new year LOL.

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


 


The latest GFS is showing the Polar Vortex moving SE towards the UK in a number of members.  Interesting for the run up to the New Year.


Originally Posted by: kmoorman 


Possibly good for Northern members with a little evevation, otherwise such synoptics often bring very wet and miserable weather to vast areas of England and Wales. Looking at most model output this morning, I fear we could be in for a very wet spell of weather regardless of mild or cool- and the wind will undoubtedly start to make the headlines.


Originally Posted by: Brendon Hills Bandit 


 


Like i said the other day - i reckon if the LPs move just a little bit further south, we could end up with a few surprise snowfalls.. which in my opinion are the best kind.  All to often we are numb with model watching by the time (if) actually snow arrives to fully enjoy it... When it snows and its not expected - it brings back similar excitement like when i was a child - excellent stuff


mikeyo
13 December 2013 12:36:54


Hi all,


Here's today's video update;


JMA Friday (13/12/13)


http://www.gavsweathervids.com


A look at the month ahead and then beyond with the Korean model.


Have to say, things aren't looking terribly inspiring this winter.


Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


 


Oh dear, not good for coldies! I just hope thos xmas crackers don't contain razor blades or anything sharp for that matter!

Hippydave
13 December 2013 12:51:01

Interesting looking 6z GFS - chilly and unsettled in FI, with a general cooling trend to the end on the London ens (interestingly the Aberdeen ens is above average in far FI, other than the OP). The jet sinks a fair way south out in FI - might lead to an unexpected height rise up North if the trend is maintained and the PV energy diminishes or wanders off elsewhere.


Before that mild & unsettled down south with cooler intervals, less mild up North


Suspect the wind will be more of an issue in the near term than anything.


Still, at least I don't have to worry about fog on the cycle in to work for the forseeable


 


 


Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
marting
13 December 2013 12:52:47

Having watched the GFS ensembles for the last 2 days there is a slight trend for a dip now just after christmas - as shown in the last two runs. The ECM ensembles wont show anything for this at present as 5c in Holland is what you woudl expect from a North Westerly based cool down. Will eb watching to see if it developes further into the post christmas / new year wintry episode.


Martin


Martin
Greasby, Wirral.
roger63
13 December 2013 13:00:44


Interesting looking 6z GFS - chilly and unsettled in FI, with a general cooling trend to the end on the London ens (interestingly the Aberdeen ens is above average in far FI, other than the OP). The jet sinks a fair way south out in FI - might lead to an unexpected height rise up North if the trend is maintained and the PV energy diminishes or wanders off elsewhere.


Before that mild & unsettled down south with cooler intervals, less mild up North


Suspect the wind will be more of an issue in the near term than anything.


Still, at least I don't have to worry about fog on the cycle in to work for the forseeable


 


 


Originally Posted by: Hippydave 


Maybe  you not are not worried about fog now,but you risk getting blown off your bike if some of the deep LP's eg efnsembles 1 13 &14 materialize.Very low central pressures of 935mb close to  the uk over festive period.

Quantum
13 December 2013 13:02:44

I think I see a light at the end of the tunnel. Small light, long dark tunnel. The ECM and the GFS are in good agreement to 240h. After that the GFS explodes a deep high over the arctic which propagates towards greenland. Meanwhile in the atlantic we have a southerly tracking jet and over N america the cold on the E seaboard is subsidiing, with some WAA apparant in the NW. Now, these signals, have been sparsely appearing on the ECM recently so I think its fair to say that there is a pattern change on the way. However it is extremely unlikely that this pattern change will come in time for xmas. We are probably looking at start of january for a chance of some northern blocking, but if we are very lucky it may be a few days before that. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
johnm1976
13 December 2013 13:05:10
The models have changed from showing HP lodged over Europe to showing a maritime flow with the jet sweeping south and possible polar maritime conditions post Christmas.

I'd take a bit of that - it's not likely to deliver snow to me in the SE but at least conditions should be wintry for a couple of days at least.

There is also some minor strat warming being modelled by GFS from about 204h over the North Atlantic, the UK and Scandinavia at 10hPa level. It will be interesting to see if it verifies or upgrades and if so can it be linked to any downstream effects.

I think model watching is quite interesting right now.
stophe
13 December 2013 13:13:08


Still very far off of course, but I hope that it does snow around the Christmas/New year week, I think that it is the 'perfect' time for snow - festive feel etc., people on holiday and not travelling/working. Looks like there will deffo be a westcountry blizzard around new year LOL.

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


 


The latest GFS is showing the Polar Vortex moving SE towards the UK in a number of members.  Interesting for the run up to the New Year.


Originally Posted by: kmoorman 


Possibly good for Northern members with a little evevation, otherwise such synoptics often bring very wet and miserable weather to vast areas of England and Wales. Looking at most model output this morning, I fear we could be in for a very wet spell of weather regardless of mild or cool- and the wind will undoubtedly start to make the headlines.

Originally Posted by: Brendon Hills Bandit 


ECM operational going for 40mm in the next ten days.

http://www.weathercast.co.uk/meteo/eps/ensemble-rrrcum-london.gif 
Quantum
13 December 2013 13:20:21

The models have changed from showing HP lodged over Europe to showing a maritime flow with the jet sweeping south and possible polar maritime conditions post Christmas.

I'd take a bit of that - it's not likely to deliver snow to me in the SE but at least conditions should be wintry for a couple of days at least.

There is also some minor strat warming being modelled by GFS from about 204h over the North Atlantic, the UK and Scandinavia at 10hPa level. It will be interesting to see if it verifies or upgrades and if so can it be linked to any downstream effects.

I think model watching is quite interesting right now.

Originally Posted by: johnm1976 


The strat warming thing again? 


I might be completely wrong about this, but modest warming at the highest level in the stratosphere over the UK and other southern latitutes will have absolutely no effect on the PV whatsoever. If anything strat warming at lower latitues, like I have said before will have the opposite effect. Look at the chart from last year where the PV was displaced by SSW over N asia. It got significantly colder in the strat in the UK.


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
johnm1976
13 December 2013 14:27:33


The models have changed from showing HP lodged over Europe to showing a maritime flow with the jet sweeping south and possible polar maritime conditions post Christmas.

I'd take a bit of that - it's not likely to deliver snow to me in the SE but at least conditions should be wintry for a couple of days at least.

There is also some minor strat warming being modelled by GFS from about 204h over the North Atlantic, the UK and Scandinavia at 10hPa level. It will be interesting to see if it verifies or upgrades and if so can it be linked to any downstream effects.

I think model watching is quite interesting right now.

Originally Posted by: Quantum 


The strat warming thing again? 


I might be completely wrong about this, but modest warming at the highest level in the stratosphere over the UK and other southern latitutes will have absolutely no effect on the PV whatsoever. If anything strat warming at lower latitues, like I have said before will have the opposite effect. Look at the chart from last year where the PV was displaced by SSW over N asia. It got significantly colder in the strat in the UK.


Originally Posted by: johnm1976 


Just saying..... I don't know if you're right, I don't think anyone does.


I don't know if you're correct about modest warmings either. We had a week long cold cold snap at the beginning of Dec 2012 which was associated with very modest strat warming. The snap itself produced a couple of days lying snow down here in the SE, and right now most contributors would chew your arm off for something similar. The later more sustained snap of Jan 2013 was associated with a greater warming.


The one showing up now is quite reasonable  - 20 - 30c at 10hPa.


I only point it out because it might be interesting for some to monitor on GFS. I suppose we'll see if it is associated with anything downstream

nouska
13 December 2013 14:29:00


The models have changed from showing HP lodged over Europe to showing a maritime flow with the jet sweeping south and possible polar maritime conditions post Christmas.

I'd take a bit of that - it's not likely to deliver snow to me in the SE but at least conditions should be wintry for a couple of days at least.

There is also some minor strat warming being modelled by GFS from about 204h over the North Atlantic, the UK and Scandinavia at 10hPa level. It will be interesting to see if it verifies or upgrades and if so can it be linked to any downstream effects.

I think model watching is quite interesting right now.

Originally Posted by: Quantum 


The strat warming thing again? 


I might be completely wrong about this, but modest warming at the highest level in the stratosphere over the UK and other southern latitutes will have absolutely no effect on the PV whatsoever. If anything strat warming at lower latitues, like I have said before will have the opposite effect. Look at the chart from last year where the PV was displaced by SSW over N asia. It got significantly colder in the strat in the UK.


Originally Posted by: johnm1976 


This type of modest warming at the 10  hPa level was one of the precursor events for the January 1963 SSW. A screenshot of the page http://i.imgur.com/uFK0skO.png


The full paper.   http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/1520-0450%281964%29003%3C0001%3ATMWSWA%3E2.0.CO%3B2

Rob K
13 December 2013 14:30:15
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png 

The ensembles have certainly changed a lot in the past week, from virtually no precipitation to virtually no dry days!
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
johnm1976
13 December 2013 15:39:07
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png 

The ensembles have certainly changed a lot in the past week, from virtually no precipitation to virtually no dry days!


Looks like a definite dip on almost all runs between 27-29th Dec though....

Chiltern Blizzard
13 December 2013 15:45:03

On the face of it, I wouldn't expect a mobile set up to be especially wintry..... However, the 6z GFS charts indicate otherwise for a significant part of the population!  It's the low 500hpa thicknesses that seem to be the reason - although high Atlantic high pressure may not be there, it's not too dissimilar from the vortex displaced over the UK in mid-December 2010.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2641.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn26417.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2642.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2643.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2644.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn26410.png


Andrew


 


 


 


 


Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
Gandalf The White
13 December 2013 15:59:31



The models have changed from showing HP lodged over Europe to showing a maritime flow with the jet sweeping south and possible polar maritime conditions post Christmas.

I'd take a bit of that - it's not likely to deliver snow to me in the SE but at least conditions should be wintry for a couple of days at least.

There is also some minor strat warming being modelled by GFS from about 204h over the North Atlantic, the UK and Scandinavia at 10hPa level. It will be interesting to see if it verifies or upgrades and if so can it be linked to any downstream effects.

I think model watching is quite interesting right now.

Originally Posted by: nouska 


The strat warming thing again? 


I might be completely wrong about this, but modest warming at the highest level in the stratosphere over the UK and other southern latitutes will have absolutely no effect on the PV whatsoever. If anything strat warming at lower latitues, like I have said before will have the opposite effect. Look at the chart from last year where the PV was displaced by SSW over N asia. It got significantly colder in the strat in the UK.


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


This type of modest warming at the 10  hPa level was one of the precursor events for the January 1963 SSW. A screenshot of the page http://i.imgur.com/uFK0skO.png


The full paper.   http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/1520-0450%281964%29003%3C0001%3ATMWSWA%3E2.0.CO%3B2


Originally Posted by: johnm1976 


That's very interesting, thanks.


The conclusions are also of interest - peak time for a SSW event is the 2nd half of January, generally they occur on the eastern side of the PV.


Worth watching how - and if - this develops.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


White Meadows
13 December 2013 16:17:11



The models have changed from showing HP lodged over Europe to showing a maritime flow with the jet sweeping south and possible polar maritime conditions post Christmas.

I'd take a bit of that - it's not likely to deliver snow to me in the SE but at least conditions should be wintry for a couple of days at least.

There is also some minor strat warming being modelled by GFS from about 204h over the North Atlantic, the UK and Scandinavia at 10hPa level. It will be interesting to see if it verifies or upgrades and if so can it be linked to any downstream effects.

I think model watching is quite interesting right now.

Originally Posted by: nouska 


The strat warming thing again? 


I might be completely wrong about this, but modest warming at the highest level in the stratosphere over the UK and other southern latitutes will have absolutely no effect on the PV whatsoever. If anything strat warming at lower latitues, like I have said before will have the opposite effect. Look at the chart from last year where the PV was displaced by SSW over N asia. It got significantly colder in the strat in the UK.


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


This type of modest warming at the 10  hPa level was one of the precursor events for the January 1963 SSW. A screenshot of the page http://i.imgur.com/uFK0skO.png


The full paper.   http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/pdf/10.1175/1520-0450%281964%29003%3C0001%3ATMWSWA%3E2.0.CO%3B2


Originally Posted by: johnm1976 


Beat me to it!


Very true, it is warming at the 10hpa level which 'cascades' across the rest of the strat and so the slowing of the vortex begins.


Fongers crossed!!

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