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nsrobins
19 December 2013 11:37:59

The feature runing across England this evening is probably about nailed by NAE and Euro4 now (NAE doing what it does best adjusting south a bit). A farily sharp baroclinic zone will generate deepish convection running ENE with the greatest potential for intensity induced snowfall on it's Northern edge - say S Wales across the Midlands after dark.
I wouldn't expect anything more substantial than an hour of wet snow especially higher up, and the decline of the feature will continue as it pushes quickly east.

For the next five days the unsettled theme continues unabated, and I still can't see any sustained signs of a break in the zonal set-up. although trending cooler.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Jiries
19 December 2013 12:23:18

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1021.png


My wife's flight to Chicago on that day the plane would have a bumpy start to the flight as it will cross over this deepening LP. 

JoeShmoe99
19 December 2013 13:08:46


The feature runing across England this evening is probably about nailed by NAE and Euro4 now (NAE doing what it does best adjusting south a bit). A farily sharp baroclinic zone will generate deepish convection running ENE with the greatest potential for intensity induced snowfall on it's Northern edge - say S Wales across the Midlands after dark.
I wouldn't expect anything more substantial than an hour of wet snow especially higher up, and the decline of the feature will continue as it pushes quickly east.

For the next five days the unsettled theme continues unabated, and I still can't see any sustained signs of a break in the zonal set-up. although trending cooler.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Indeed, the ECM +240 is a horrow show for 'coldies'


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2401.gif


 

Rob K
19 December 2013 13:48:15



The feature runing across England this evening is probably about nailed by NAE and Euro4 now (NAE doing what it does best adjusting south a bit). A farily sharp baroclinic zone will generate deepish convection running ENE with the greatest potential for intensity induced snowfall on it's Northern edge - say S Wales across the Midlands after dark.
I wouldn't expect anything more substantial than an hour of wet snow especially higher up, and the decline of the feature will continue as it pushes quickly east.

For the next five days the unsettled theme continues unabated, and I still can't see any sustained signs of a break in the zonal set-up. although trending cooler.


Originally Posted by: JoeShmoe99 


Indeed, the ECM +240 is a horrow show for 'coldies'


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2401.gif


 


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Not exactly a mild fest though is it! http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2402.gif


 


And looking from above there is a decent pressure rise over the N Pole with the PV almost split in two by 240hrs.


 


http://meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013121900/ECH1-240.GIF?19-12


I'm certainly not pessimistic about the chances of a decent cold/snowy spell in January.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Maunder Minimum
19 December 2013 14:15:21


Not exactly a mild fest though is it! http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2402.gif


 


And looking from above there is a decent pressure rise over the N Pole with the PV almost split in two by 240hrs.


 


http://meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013121900/ECH1-240.GIF?19-12


I'm certainly not pessimistic about the chances of a decent cold/snowy spell in January.


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


There have been persistent indications from various models of a pressure rise over the Pole towards the end of the month. Quite what effect that would have on weather in the UK is open to question, but it does look as though the Polar Vortex and consequently, the Polar Night Jet, is going to be disrupted. Will be interesting to see how it pans out.


New world order coming.
Gooner
19 December 2013 14:51:36



The feature runing across England this evening is probably about nailed by NAE and Euro4 now (NAE doing what it does best adjusting south a bit). A farily sharp baroclinic zone will generate deepish convection running ENE with the greatest potential for intensity induced snowfall on it's Northern edge - say S Wales across the Midlands after dark.
I wouldn't expect anything more substantial than an hour of wet snow especially higher up, and the decline of the feature will continue as it pushes quickly east.

For the next five days the unsettled theme continues unabated, and I still can't see any sustained signs of a break in the zonal set-up. although trending cooler.


Originally Posted by: JoeShmoe99 


Indeed, the ECM +240 is a horrow show for 'coldies'


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2401.gif


 


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013121900/ECH0-240.GIF?19-12


I wouldn't call that a horrow show ?


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


nsrobins
19 December 2013 15:08:58

And GFS ENS Pert #7 wins the award today for what 'could' happen around the New Year should heights be allowed to get to the North of us.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?code=7&ech=360&mode=0&carte=0


CFS I see also having another go at a Scandy height rise in the first week of Jan but it's been doing this for so long now you wonder if it's worth paying any attention.


 


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
ARTzeman
19 December 2013 15:14:25

I rather like the Fax 120......






Some people walk in the rain.
Others just get wet.
I Just Blow my horn or trumpet
19 December 2013 16:11:56

GFS 12z is a nightmare. 90mph+ winds north west Ireland, Northern Ireland, west and north Scotland, Western Isles, Northern Isles, Essex and Kent

JoeShmoe99
19 December 2013 16:18:21


GFS 12z is a nightmare. 90mph+ winds north west Ireland, Northern Ireland, west and north Scotland, Western Isles, Northern Isles, Essex and Kent


Originally Posted by: ManUtdMatt1986 


Yes thats a nasty looking storm on Monday


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn961.png


 

19 December 2013 16:21:43



GFS 12z is a nightmare. 90mph+ winds north west Ireland, Northern Ireland, west and north Scotland, Western Isles, Northern Isles, Essex and Kent


Originally Posted by: JoeShmoe99 


Yes thats a nasty looking storm on Monday


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn961.png


 


Originally Posted by: ManUtdMatt1986 


and then Tuesday for the south east. Oh dear.

johnm1976
19 December 2013 16:30:39
There is quite a lot of stratospheric warming over North East Asia and a little less over the Atlantic and europe being consistently modelled by GFS which is squashing the stratospheric vortex into an unusual sausage shape running from approx the US, over the Pole and down towards the Crimea with the vortex centering over Scandinavia.

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=384&mode=10&carte=1 

Interesting - I wonder if that has anything to do with the jet heading south on the models or if it will allow HL blocking if it verifies?

I think we might be in for some interesting weather....

Stormchaser
19 December 2013 16:32:25

http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20131219/12/180/h850t850eu.png


Well then. That secondary LP is swinging a lot further south on this run! In fact it could undercut the HP to our NE, which is what perturbation 7 of the 06z GEFS did...


...could still slam the SE with some strong winds too.


 


What on earth will be ECM's reaction to GFS' exploration today...? Stay tuned to find out (6-7pm today).


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

https://twitter.com/peacockreports 
2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Quantum
19 December 2013 16:35:15

Jet stream ending up well to the south on the 12Z, height rises in the arctic, with a -ve AO developing. At this rate we might be on track for some decent blocking by january. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Stormchaser
19 December 2013 16:52:27


Jet stream ending up well to the south on the 12Z, height rises in the arctic, with a -ve AO developing. At this rate we might be on track for some decent blocking by january. 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Great to see some entertaining GFS op runs at last 


This run really does take the polar blocking to the next level, with a more robust Arctic High established by the end of higher-res... the PV is then split and beaten down to a sorry state by day 14. It's a little hard to believe that things could progress that quickly up there, but you never know I suppose.


The evolution for the UK has the Atlantic being a real bother, first aligning poorly and then aligning well but positioned too close to the UK... such drawn-out, painfull evolutions are certainly possible, just to warn anybody watching and/or posting in the forums who has not been through the silly season before! 


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

https://twitter.com/peacockreports 
2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Chiltern Blizzard
19 December 2013 17:12:16
Interesting 12z run... A far cry from the unrelenting Barletts of earlier last week. Whether it will evolve similar to this or whether the polar vortex will re-organise, time will tell, but earlier comments writing off January were clearly premature... I know the medium term forecasts weren't/aren't offering much good news for coldies, but since when have these been infallible... And if they are far from infallible, even if the gfs switched back to a Barlett at t384 tomorrow, there's definitely room for hope.

Andrew
Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
idj20
19 December 2013 17:13:58

Regarding GFS's output for the 24th, methinks it's been on the Red Bull again. Yesterday, it was showing a vicious-looking "daughter low" running along Southern England on the 26th, now the latest update shows things being almost dead calm for that same time period.
  I think the models are strugging to keep a firm grip on it all where anything beyond 56 hours becomes FI land, never mind 156 hours. The only common trend is for things to be changeable and temperatures sticking close to average values for the next seven days at least, while of course the threat of damaging gales will never be too far away.
  It's as if our climate has decided to do what it does best at as it switches to "Classic Mode".

And yes, I'm hoping for any downgrades on charts showing 90 mph-plus winds for the South East. One St Judes-type system is enough of the year for me.


Folkestone Harbour. 
The Beast from the East
19 December 2013 17:15:03

GEM also very similar to GFS. UKMO looks good too for a white christmas for some up north


All we need now is for ECM to get on board!


 


 


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
doctormog
19 December 2013 17:23:48
Still a very unsettled outlook on today's output with perhaps the slow drop in temperatures continuing. Perhaps we may end up in a wintry spell almost without realising we're getting there if everything slowly moves south run after run. It is a possibility but I guess only one of many.
Gooner
19 December 2013 17:24:17

12z gives us a colder run , plenty of wintry potential flying around


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


nsrobins
19 December 2013 17:42:54


 


What on earth will be ECM's reaction to GFS' exploration today...? Stay tuned to find out (6-7pm today).


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


The thought of ECM 'reacting' to GFS is somewhat amusing. The model runs are as far as I know completely independant


In attempting to scrutinise detail on the location and timing of any 'severe' end conditions over the next week, I would advise not being to concerned with fine detail run to run. Because of the volatility and parameters responsible for the genesis of these systems the synoptics must be given some width regards detail.
I am issuing a forecast for Christmas tomorrow and will be lacing the text with an extra helping of caveats on the timing of any storm events.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
David M Porter
19 December 2013 17:56:20


GEM also very similar to GFS. UKMO looks good too for a white christmas for some up north


All we need now is for ECM to get on board!


 


 


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


I just hope the weather doesn't prove to be too much of a problem on Tuesday (Xmas Eve) up here; I'm planning a trip through to Edinburgh by train on that day and don't really want the trains to be disrupted!


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Arbroath 1320
Gooner
19 December 2013 18:09:46

Perturbation 17 please:

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?ech=360&code=17&mode=0&carte=0

Originally Posted by: Arbroath 1320 


Not too sure it is that cold


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gensnh-17-0-360.png?12


15 has a huge block marching towards the UK


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gensnh-15-1-384.png?12


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Ally Pally Snowman
19 December 2013 18:17:06
Despite the optimism still very few cold runs. Cold zonal doesn't work in the south. Think it's going to be a while yet for snow


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
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