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David M Porter
21 December 2013 18:15:33

So just how nasty will the weather get on Monday?


As you were folks.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Gandalf The White
21 December 2013 18:16:45


So just how nasty will the weather get on Monday?


As you were folks.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Very, in a word.


Just posted in the other thread that ECM shows 80mb of deepening in 48 hours to midday Monday.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122112/ECM1-72.GIF?21-0



Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Whether Idle
21 December 2013 18:17:30

Some light relief from perterbation 7 in the 12 z GEFS at the farthest reaches of FI (JFF).  *cough*


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?code=7&ech=384&mode=0&carte=0


edit and ptb 15.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?code=15&ech=384&mode=0&carte=0


Apologies, but I needed a break from raging zonality, which is the form horse.


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Polar Low
21 December 2013 18:27:18

 That depth of cold on a straight westerly making it right across is really quite unsual and rare imo


 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?nh=0&ech=48&carte=1007

Polar Low
21 December 2013 18:31:59
Gooner
21 December 2013 18:35:59


Some light relief from perterbation 7 in the 12 z GEFS at the farthest reaches of FI (JFF).  *cough*


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?code=7&ech=384&mode=0&carte=0


edit and ptb 15.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?code=15&ech=384&mode=0&carte=0


Apologies, but I needed a break from raging zonality, which is the form horse.


 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Don't apologise , all good to see


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


David M Porter
21 December 2013 18:36:49



So just how nasty will the weather get on Monday?


As you were folks.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Very, in a word.


Just posted in the other thread that ECM shows 80mb of deepening in 48 hours to midday Monday.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122112/ECM1-72.GIF?21-0



Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


From the BBC forecast I saw earlier today, it looks as though NW/Northern Scotland is in the firing line for the strongest winds later on Monday and into Tuesay, but it'll probably be rather windy pretty much everywhere I imagine. Just hope it diesn't cause too much disruption, especially for those people travelling before Xmas.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Gooner
21 December 2013 18:38:12

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122112/ECH0-168.GIF?21-0


Some chillier air sits over the UK at least


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122112/ECH1-168.GIF?21-0


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Polar Low
21 December 2013 18:42:14

Indeed David hope eveyone keeps safe and drives with that in mind.


Most people in Chelmsford seem to drive faster as the weather pulls in for some stupid reason and no soup or bread on shelfs of course





So just how nasty will the weather get on Monday?


As you were folks.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Very, in a word.


Just posted in the other thread that ECM shows 80mb of deepening in 48 hours to midday Monday.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122112/ECM1-72.GIF?21-0



Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


From the BBC forecast I saw earlier today, it looks as though NW/Northern Scotland is in the firing line for the strongest winds later on Monday and into Tuesay, but it'll probably be rather windy pretty much everywhere I imagine. Just hope it diesn't cause too much disruption, especially for those people travelling before Xmas.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 

Stormchaser
21 December 2013 19:00:54

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122112/ECH1-240.GIF?21-0


ECM just pulled a chart full of longer-term cold potential out of the hat, with a notable Arctic High and LP digging towards Europe...


...but it comes after it treats the Friday storm in a very different way to GFS and UKMO, so confidence is very low.


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

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Keep Calm and Forecast On
Polar Low
21 December 2013 19:06:40
Maunder Minimum
21 December 2013 19:22:07


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122112/ECH1-240.GIF?21-0


ECM just pulled a chart full of longer-term cold potential out of the hat, with a notable Arctic High and LP digging towards Europe...


...but it comes after it treats the Friday storm in a very different way to GFS and UKMO, so confidence is very low.


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


There have been persistent signals for a pressure build over the Pole leading to negative AO - the question which remains, is what impact that will have on our weather. Very hard to determine, since a negative AO is not as certain as a negative NAO when it comes to delivering for the UK.


One thing is certain however, it will change our prevailing weather pattern.


New world order coming.
nickl
21 December 2013 19:39:56



http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122112/ECH1-240.GIF?21-0


ECM just pulled a chart full of longer-term cold potential out of the hat, with a notable Arctic High and LP digging towards Europe...


...but it comes after it treats the Friday storm in a very different way to GFS and UKMO, so confidence is very low.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


There have been persistent signals for a pressure build over the Pole leading to negative AO - the question which remains, is what impact that will have on our weather. Very hard to determine, since a negative AO is not as certain as a negative NAO when it comes to delivering for the UK.


One thing is certain however, it will change our prevailing weather pattern.


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


indeed maunder - the trop charts from the strat data have shown negative flow above 75N for a fair while now.  we just cant get anything more than cold zonality whilst the canadian vortex is throwing that energy into the n atlantic. at last tonight we have gem, ecm and the whole ncep suite showing that in week 2, a general rise in heights to our north is possible. that should allow ridging this side of the pole to extend towards the arctic high. where will it be ? n atlantic, in our locale, to our east ?  all of a sudden - its potentially v interesting.  (and thats ignoring the phenominal conditions we have to get through first, courtesy of those very low dam numbers)

Gooner
21 December 2013 19:47:56



http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/jma.php?ech=156&mode=1


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


That looks absolutely awful for MBY


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gandalf The White
21 December 2013 19:55:00

I noticed a somewhat odd pressure pattern near the French/Italian border:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122112/ECF1-120.GIF?21-0


Data error or is there something else going on, I wonder?


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


UncleAlbert
21 December 2013 20:39:35


I noticed a somewhat odd pressure pattern near the French/Italian border:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122112/ECF1-120.GIF?21-0


Data error or is there something else going on, I wonder?


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


 


A graphic illustration of the Mistral I believe.

GIBBY
21 December 2013 20:39:44

Good evening. Here is the report on the 12 noon outputs from the NWP for today Saturday December 21st 2013.


All models continue to show a very volatile spell of weather on the road to Christmas with a very showery day tomorrow especially in the West followed by a thoroughly awful day on Monday as a vicious area of Low pressure winds up close to NW Britain with severe gales and storm force gusts affecting some areas through the day along with heavy and locally torrential spells of rain. Following this there will be heavy and squally showers rushing through on the wind with hail, thunder, sleet and snow all possible on Christmas Eve. Through Christmas Day and Boxing Day lighter winds look likely with showers more scattered as a result and confined to coastal areas adjacent to the breeze with some areas ending up dry and bright if rather cold.


GFS then exits Christmas with another active storm system sending strong winds and gales across the UK which only relaxes slowly as we move towards the end of the year. By New Years Eve another Low is formed close to Western Britain with more wind and rain for many areas which quickly clears NE in time for New Years day which looks much better and quieter across most areas. Changes then towards the end of the run revolve around rising pressure from the Southeast sending and weakening rain bearing systems towards Northern and Western areas while England and Wales become much quieter and drier if somewhat colder.


UKMO tonight shows post Christmas opening with another very powerful storm system to the North of the UK with strong to gale force WSW winds and heavy rain having cleared East to be replaced by showers with once more some wintry showers on hills and in the North.


GEM tonight shows unsettled and innitially stormy conditions soon after Christmas with storm force winds, heavy rain then squally and wintry showers with hail and thunder all thrown in at times. Winds do die sown towards the end of the year but the weather looks likely to remain cold and unsettled as we hit the New Year period with another Low pressure down to the SW and with pressure over Europe less in a hurry to rise.


NAVGEM shows very stormy weather a week from now with gale SW or West winds showers and longer spells of rain and showers, wintry on hills.


ECM tonight shows unsettled and sometimes stormy weather continuing right up to the New Year with nowhere immune from some very unpleasant conditions at times. Heavy rain will be all too frequent with some colder brighter weather with showers, wintry on hills in between the rain bands in temperatures close to or a little above average at times in the South later.


The GFS Ensembles show another disappointing set with average uppers throughout and spells of heavy rain all too frequent with sunshine and showers in between with wintry showers over the hills.


The Jet Stream shows the flow slipping South of the UK as we approach and over Christmas itself before it moves back North over and occasionally just to the NW of the British Isles towards the end of the run.


In Summary there is still an awful lot of newsworthy weather to get through before any of the models show anything of significant improvement over the coming period and even then there is still plenty of scope for further wind and rain to take us into the New Year. Temperatures in themselves will be close to average overall though this will be sufficiently cold enough for some snow over hills at times. The wind will also be a major feature with another worrying storm likely just after Christmas before things do look like moderating somewhat in terms of wind strength while rainfall build up could continue to be a problem throughout the period. Unfortunately for those looking for something rather traditionally colder and wintry will have to continue to wait as there still remains little signs of any major change to the overall pattern anytime soon while the Jet stream profile remains as it is.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
21 December 2013 21:02:54




So just how nasty will the weather get on Monday?


As you were folks.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Very, in a word.


Just posted in the other thread that ECM shows 80mb of deepening in 48 hours to midday Monday.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122112/ECM1-72.GIF?21-0



Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


From the BBC forecast I saw earlier today, it looks as though NW/Northern Scotland is in the firing line for the strongest winds later on Monday and into Tuesay, but it'll probably be rather windy pretty much everywhere I imagine. Just hope it diesn't cause too much disruption, especially for those people travelling before Xmas.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Indeed, I'm glad I'm only planning to travel to London, not Scotland. I think the problem in the south is not so much gales (though they're going to be noticeable) but trailing fronts bringing copious amount of rain. See e.g. current fax chart for 00Z Tuesday http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/datmdlout.aspx . There are already plenty of flood alerts in the South East, and elsewhere, and I shall be avoiding river valley routes.


Good scrollable flood map here:http://www.shoothill.com/FloodMap/


 


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
NickR
21 December 2013 21:05:21





So just how nasty will the weather get on Monday?


As you were folks.


Originally Posted by: DEW 


Very, in a word.


Just posted in the other thread that ECM shows 80mb of deepening in 48 hours to midday Monday.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122112/ECM1-72.GIF?21-0



Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


From the BBC forecast I saw earlier today, it looks as though NW/Northern Scotland is in the firing line for the strongest winds later on Monday and into Tuesay, but it'll probably be rather windy pretty much everywhere I imagine. Just hope it diesn't cause too much disruption, especially for those people travelling before Xmas.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Indeed, I'm glad I'm only planning to travel to London, not Scotland. I think the problem in the south is not so much gales (though they're going to be noticeable) but trailing fronts bringing copious amount of rain. See e.g. current fax chart for 00Z Tuesday http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/datmdlout.aspx . There are already plenty of flood alerts in the South East, and elsewhere, and I shall be avoiding river valley routes.


Good scrollable flood map here:http://www.shoothill.com/FloodMap/


 


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Not sure about that...


http://modeles2.meteociel.fr/modeles_gfs/runs/2013122112/57-289UK.GIF?21-6


http://modeles2.meteociel.fr/modeles_gfs/runs/2013122112/60-289UK.GIF?21-6


Nick
Durham
[email protected]
David M Porter
21 December 2013 21:27:01


I noticed a somewhat odd pressure pattern near the French/Italian border:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122112/ECF1-120.GIF?21-0


Data error or is there something else going on, I wonder?


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Yeah, I noticed that as well, Peter. I imagine that tomorrow's model runs will go a long way towards clearing that one up one way or the other.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
NickR
21 December 2013 21:32:53
At just 18hrs the 18Z already has the low 5mb deeper than the 12Z.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn181.png 
Nick
Durham
[email protected]
Russwirral
21 December 2013 21:51:42



I noticed a somewhat odd pressure pattern near the French/Italian border:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122112/ECF1-120.GIF?21-0


Data error or is there something else going on, I wonder?


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Yeah, I noticed that as well, Peter. I imagine that tomorrow's model runs will go a long way towards clearing that one up one way or the other.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


 


i would put that down to some sort of topography impact.. it matches exactly the contours of the Alps. 


 


Infact wouldnt a strong wind across the alps create the lift required that would reflect in a very strong dip in pressure?  makes sense to me.


 


 


NickR
21 December 2013 22:19:34
The low on the 27th looks even more damaging and dangerous, given its track.
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1501.png 
Nick
Durham
[email protected]
Gavin P
21 December 2013 22:26:06

Models really are looking the worst I've seen since I've been model watching (2000) in terms of storms for Tuesday and Friday - Horrendous stuff.


Suspect you'd have to go back to Christmas/New Year 97/98 for a comparatively horrendous period?


Not a winter cold/snow lovers will be wanting to compare 13/14 to I'm sure.


 


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
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