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JACKO4EVER
23 December 2013 20:56:48

The 12z ECM provides more of the same.


The eastern seaboard of the US once again plays the role of cyclogenesis central, with each cold wave surging into the Atlantic kicking off another low pressure system:


The upper cold trough over the eastern US here http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-24.GIF?23-0


triggers the low pressure SE of Newfoundland here http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-48.GIF?23-0


which develops in 24 hours to this http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-72.GIF?23-0


and becomes our Friday storm http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-96.GIF?23-0


 


Meanwhile the next LP is triggered by the cold uppers leaving the US on the final chart (T+96), which develops to this in mid-Atlantic at T+120: http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-120.GIF?23-0


Then another at T+168 http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-168.GIF?23-0


And another at T+216: http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-216.GIF?23-0


The final one seems to be taking a more NE track, heading perhaps for southern Greenland instead of straight across the Atlantic.

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Great commentary there. Again, hints of a pressure rise to the South- pushing the jet North and allowing us to be on the mild side of things. So the pattern change may not be what some people want, if it's cold your looking for. In the meantime very wet and windy.

marting
23 December 2013 21:12:11
Tonight's ECM ensembles continue to show a reduction in temps, following general pattern of all moving south?
Martin
Martin
Greasby, Wirral.
Rob K
23 December 2013 21:34:39
Yes, can't see any suggestion of the pattern moving north as Jason suggests. Quite the opposite in fact. Could well be the worst sort of winter pattern for the south: wet and cold but not quite cold enough for snow.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Sevendust
23 December 2013 22:12:25

Yes, can't see any suggestion of the pattern moving north as Jason suggests. Quite the opposite in fact. Could well be the worst sort of winter pattern for the south: wet and cold but not quite cold enough for snow.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


I recall you mentioning a while back that flooding may not be an issue in the current weather as it had been pretty dry for a while but the reality unfolding has seen far more rain than I was expecting and everything now is saturated. Winchester may well have picked up 5 inches of rain in just over 10 days and a pattern such as you suggest will simply exacerbate the problem. Brians MLblocking winter looks doomed

nickl
23 December 2013 22:21:53

Yes, can't see any suggestion of the pattern moving north as Jason suggests. Quite the opposite in fact. Could well be the worst sort of winter pattern for the south: wet and cold but not quite cold enough for snow.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


or maybe just the right side of marginal rob which we all know delivers the most snowfall !!  on a more serious note, ecm extended ens are now consistently taking the jet south through week 2 with a general trough in nw europe and the secondary systems running nw/se into the continent.  naefs isnt in quite the same place but there were a few gfs members headed this way (as was the op) so perhaps its the GEM ens holding naefs back in this regard.


 

Rob K
23 December 2013 22:34:05

Yes, can't see any suggestion of the pattern moving north as Jason suggests. Quite the opposite in fact. Could well be the worst sort of winter pattern for the south: wet and cold but not quite cold enough for snow.

Originally Posted by: Sevendust 


I recall you mentioning a while back that flooding may not be an issue in the current weather as it had been pretty dry for a while but the reality unfolding has seen far more rain than I was expecting and everything now is saturated. Winchester may well have picked up 5 inches of rain in just over 10 days and a pattern such as you suggest will simply exacerbate the problem. Brians MLblocking winter looks doomed

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Yes it has got pretty soggy. We're lucky here as we are on free draining heathland soil so it never gets too wet but even here there are temporary floods on a few roads at the moment.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1501.png 

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1504.png . - yikes
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Rob K
23 December 2013 22:57:51
Just look at that cold pool over America.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2402.png 
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Gooner
23 December 2013 23:06:13


The 12z ECM provides more of the same.


The eastern seaboard of the US once again plays the role of cyclogenesis central, with each cold wave surging into the Atlantic kicking off another low pressure system:


The upper cold trough over the eastern US here http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-24.GIF?23-0


triggers the low pressure SE of Newfoundland here http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-48.GIF?23-0


which develops in 24 hours to this http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-72.GIF?23-0


and becomes our Friday storm http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-96.GIF?23-0


 


Meanwhile the next LP is triggered by the cold uppers leaving the US on the final chart (T+96), which develops to this in mid-Atlantic at T+120: http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-120.GIF?23-0


Then another at T+168 http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-168.GIF?23-0


And another at T+216: http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-216.GIF?23-0


The final one seems to be taking a more NE track, heading perhaps for southern Greenland instead of straight across the Atlantic.


Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


Great commentary there. Again, hints of a pressure rise to the South- pushing the jet North and allowing us to be on the mild side of things. So the pattern change may not be what some people want, if it's cold your looking for. In the meantime very wet and windy.

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Jas the charts that I have been looking show a cooler trend ................any chance you can post the links to the charts you have been looking at old chap


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Hungry Tiger
23 December 2013 23:40:29


Good evening from a very stormy West Country. Here is the latest look at the midday outputs from the NWP output for today Monday December 23rd 2013.


All output tonight shows a very intense depression West of the Hebrides with some exceptionally low central pressure readings over the next 12-24 hours as its is shown to move gently North. The spell of torrential rain and severe gales continues across Southern Britain for another 6-9 hours before a clearance from the West later in the night sees wind speeds fall and the rain turn more showery as it turns somewhat colder. In the far NW storm force winds for a time later tonight and at first tomorrow are possible.  All areas are shown to see a windy day tomorrow as the Low still has total influence over all areas tomorrow with a mix of sunshine and squally showers for all. Through Christmas day and Boxing Day the weather relaxes somewhat in a sunshine and showery mix with some welcome relief from strong winds for most. By Friday a new intense Low moves NE close to Western Ireland deepening explosively and returning rain and severe gales once more to all areas through the course of the day. the weekend then becomes rather colder and showery again in a blustery Westerly flow.


GFS then shows a continuation of wet and stormy conditions through the period from the weekend and over the New Year with continued flooding and high wind speeds still very newsworthy at times. Once into the New Year though still very changeable and often wet the weather becomes less stormy and steadily colder at times with some sleet or snow featuring across the UK and not always just over the hills.


UKMO tonight shows Sundays chart with yet another rapidly deepening depression moving NE close to Northern Ireland with severe gales renewed over Southern Britain and heavy, persistent rain sweeping NE to England and Wales through the day.


GEM tonight shows a barrage of Low pressure and strong winds across the UK on the run up to the New Year and some way beyond with an awful lot of rain and periods of very strong winds the main ingredients of the weather with academically average temperatures throughout.


NAVGEM too shows no let up in the windy and very wet weather at times from Christmas out to New Years Eve at least.


ECM also shows very changeable and often wet and windy weather well into the New Year though the intensity of the wind may reduce somewhat as we move into 2014.


The GFS Ensembles show very changeable conditions continuing throughout with wet weather at times for all. The very worst of the rain may lessen with time. The colder weather that develops from the operational late in the run is not well supported by other members of the ensemble group.


The Jet Stream continues to power Eastward over the Atlantic and around the British Isles throughout the run with the usual oscillating pattern North then South very indicative of very changeable and stormy weather.


In Summary there is still a lot of support for a lot more very strong winds and heavy rain for a good while yet before things improve somewhat. It is unlikely that any improvement of note in the current pattern will take place this side of the New Year and with a very strong Jet Stream in conjunction with stark temperature contrasts over the States showing little signs of relenting the pattern could well last out towards the middle of January before any significant change arrives.


Originally Posted by: GIBBY 


Sounds drastic - Usually when a situation like this happens - an exceptionally severe storm materialises from the likes of this.


Worrying if you ask me.


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Gandalf The White
23 December 2013 23:52:52

Tonight's ECM ensembles continue to show a reduction in temps, following general pattern of all moving south?
Martin

Originally Posted by: marting 


Indeed they do. Here is the 12z ECM ensemble for London:


http://www.weathercast.co.uk/services/ensemble-forecast.html


The main cluster of members sits around maxima of 5-6C and minima close to or a little below 0C.  Noticeably fewer members going for anything above average for early Jan, perhaps 10-15% from Day 11 onwards.


The Op has four distinct periods of rain, the first 3 well supported by the ensemble members, the last one rather less so.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Hungry Tiger
23 December 2013 23:55:30

High pressure attempting to get in from the east later on - Doesn't get far though.


http://www.jp2webdesign.co.uk/ds/gfs.htm


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


GIBBY
24 December 2013 08:27:48

Good morning folks. Here is todays report taken from the 12 midnight outputs of NWP for today Christmas Eve 24th December 2013.


All models show an intense depression close to the far NW of Scotland with a showery WSW flow over the UK following the stormy fronts clearance over the SE later this morning. The showers will be heavy but scattered with some snow over the hills at times. The strong winds will gradually subside away from the far NW by tonight. Christmas Day and Boxing Day are shown with our deep depression filling to the North and moving away with both days being dry and bright days for many though coastal areas of the South and West may see scattered showers, still wintry over the hills. It will feel rather cold. Late on Boxing Day another rapidly deepening Low is shown to drift past Western Ireland and Scotland with yet more heavy rain and severe gales over Boxing Night clearing to sunshine and showers, wintry on hills again over Friday and Saturday.


GFS then shows a cool and showery end to the weekend as winds blow down from the NW though much lighter than previously. Then as next week begins it's back to square 1 as a new deepening Low swings NE over the North with strong winds and rain for all followed by showers, turning wintry from the North on New Years Eve. Then through the extended parts of it's output the run keeps very changeable conditions going over the UK with showers or longer spells of rain in near average temperatures but it looks less stormy than recently.


UKMO closes it's run with Low pressure up to the NW of Britain with another set of fronts carrying strong winds and rain across the UK to start next week.


GEM today also keeps Low pressure belts to the North and NW with strong WSW flows over the UK with spells of rain and showers for all in average temperaturs.


NAVGEM is similar with deep Low pressure ending up just to the West of the UK a week from now with wet and windy weather still the most dominant weather events for the UK in temperatures near average.


ECM this morning also shows very changeable conditions persisting into the New Year with fast moving depressions crossing the Atlantic to the NW or indeed over the UK maintaining the very frequent areas of rain followed by showers type weather going. The depressions are shown to be less deep though and as a result the winds should not be as fierce later.


The GFS Ensembles trend very slightly downward in the 850 values late in the run but there is little overall evidence of a major shift towards anything generally cold. Instead there is less heavy rain shown later in the run with the emphasis shifting more towards the NW later.


The Jet Stream profile remains wrong for cold over the UK in the coming two weeks. The flow remains strong and while it remains just South of the UK currently it moves back North over the UK later and tracks in a NE direction across or to the NW of Britain late in the run.


In Summary the weather remains very unsettled for the foreseeable future. There is still room for more severe weather in the pre New Year period as more storm systems develop very deeply to the NW. However, as time goes the depressions look less intense as we move into the New Year and while they will still each bring their own version of wind and rain to many areas they look less inclined to bring severe gales. However, the further rain they bring will only exasipate the already saturated ground to maintain a flood risk in places. For those looking for colder weather I have nothing to report this morning as if anything the amount of wintriness in the showers on the passing of each storm system looks likely to become more and more restricted to the ususal locations over the mountains of the North with temperatures holding up well towards average in the basic West or SW flow.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
ARTzeman
24 December 2013 09:33:20

Thank you Martin.


Output for this Friday is more winds that I could do without for off visiting people...






Some people walk in the rain.
Others just get wet.
I Just Blow my horn or trumpet
GIBBY
24 December 2013 09:37:20


Thank you Martin.


Output for this Friday is more winds that I could do without for off visiting people...


Originally Posted by: ARTzeman 


Yes indeed. I'm unable to update my website this morning due to power failures in the SE from yesterdays storm where my server resides.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Stormchaser
24 December 2013 10:09:17

GFS is being fairly consistent in modelling an active frontal system for Sunday/Monday with winds almost as strong as we've just had here in the south, and there is support from ECM and UKMO for this.


http://modeles2.meteociel.fr/modeles_gfs/runs/2013122400/150-289.GIF?24-0


It does look to be a much briefer affair, though.


 


Rainfall looks to be a bigger concern for many:


http://modeles2.meteociel.fr/modeles_gfs/runs/2013122400/168-777.GIF?24-0


...particularly in the far West but also around here - Boscombe Down had the highest rainfall total yesterday, and that's not far north of me. I'm amazed that it saw more than all of the stations across Devon and Cornwall, but that's what it says on the Met Office summary page.


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

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2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
The Beast from the East
24 December 2013 10:38:06

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gem/runs/2013122400/gem-0-240.png?00


GEM offers some hope for coldies


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
24 December 2013 10:43:25

GFS tries but fails to build heights. Could be another long and frustrating spell of model watching. Dont expect anything before mid Jan is my advice. Might happen sooner, which would be a bonus


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Gooner
24 December 2013 11:15:09


GFS tries but fails to build heights. Could be another long and frustrating spell of model watching. Dont expect anything before mid Jan is my advice. Might happen sooner, which would be a bonus


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3121.png


This would bring something wintry


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
24 December 2013 11:24:29

Can't see any sign in the models of an end to the temperature gradient driven storm factory off the Eastern Seaboard. This is a very stable pattern, and it's hard to see what will break it until the Gulf of Mexico runs out of very warm air, or Canada runs out of very cold. Hard to see how any blocking could form, let alone be sustained.


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
Jiries
24 December 2013 11:33:54


Can't see any sign in the models of an end to the temperature gradient driven storm factory off the Eastern Seaboard. This is a very stable pattern, and it's hard to see what will break it until the Gulf of Mexico runs out of very warm air, or Canada runs out of very cold. Hard to see how any blocking could form, let alone be sustained.


Originally Posted by: RobN 


Not yet until end of Jan when I return from Canada can lose the very cold air and anyway it cannot last too long the very cold air over there as it arrived very early this winter than normal.  

JACKO4EVER
24 December 2013 12:37:59


The 12z ECM provides more of the same.


The eastern seaboard of the US once again plays the role of cyclogenesis central, with each cold wave surging into the Atlantic kicking off another low pressure system:


The upper cold trough over the eastern US here http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-24.GIF?23-0


triggers the low pressure SE of Newfoundland here http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-48.GIF?23-0


which develops in 24 hours to this http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-72.GIF?23-0


and becomes our Friday storm http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-96.GIF?23-0


 


Meanwhile the next LP is triggered by the cold uppers leaving the US on the final chart (T+96), which develops to this in mid-Atlantic at T+120: http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-120.GIF?23-0


Then another at T+168 http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-168.GIF?23-0


And another at T+216: http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-216.GIF?23-0


The final one seems to be taking a more NE track, heading perhaps for southern Greenland instead of straight across the Atlantic.


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Great commentary there. Again, hints of a pressure rise to the South- pushing the jet North and allowing us to be on the mild side of things. So the pattern change may not be what some people want, if it's cold your looking for. In the meantime very wet and windy.

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


Jas the charts that I have been looking show a cooler trend ................any chance you can post the links to the charts you have been looking at old chap

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Just a general observation Marcus, quite a few runs have flirted with a pressure rise to the South at the end of the timeframe. Interestingly, now the 15 day ECM is still showing LP domination but with those lows spinning further and further North, quite possibly due to the jet and HP influence to the South. Very interesting developments if you don't mind mild, but to be honest very little to grasp if your a coldie. Still lots of rain on offer- though frosts should be kept to a minimum hopefully.

nickl
24 December 2013 12:47:19



The 12z ECM provides more of the same.


The eastern seaboard of the US once again plays the role of cyclogenesis central, with each cold wave surging into the Atlantic kicking off another low pressure system:


The upper cold trough over the eastern US here http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-24.GIF?23-0


triggers the low pressure SE of Newfoundland here http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-48.GIF?23-0


which develops in 24 hours to this http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-72.GIF?23-0


and becomes our Friday storm http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-96.GIF?23-0


 


Meanwhile the next LP is triggered by the cold uppers leaving the US on the final chart (T+96), which develops to this in mid-Atlantic at T+120: http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-120.GIF?23-0


Then another at T+168 http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-168.GIF?23-0


And another at T+216: http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-216.GIF?23-0


The final one seems to be taking a more NE track, heading perhaps for southern Greenland instead of straight across the Atlantic.


Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


Great commentary there. Again, hints of a pressure rise to the South- pushing the jet North and allowing us to be on the mild side of things. So the pattern change may not be what some people want, if it's cold your looking for. In the meantime very wet and windy.

Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Jas the charts that I have been looking show a cooler trend ................any chance you can post the links to the charts you have been looking at old chap


Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


Just a general observation Marcus, quite a few runs have flirted with a pressure rise to the South at the end of the timeframe. Interestingly, now the 15 day ECM is still showing LP domination but with those lows spinning further and further North, quite possibly due to the jet and HP influence to the South. Very interesting developments if you don't mind mild, but to be honest very little to grasp if your a coldie. Still lots of rain on offer- though frosts should be kept to a minimum hopefully.

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


but the 15 day ecm ens mean is consistently showing heights dropping over france as we head through week 2 ?????

Solar Cycles
24 December 2013 12:53:38




The 12z ECM provides more of the same.


The eastern seaboard of the US once again plays the role of cyclogenesis central, with each cold wave surging into the Atlantic kicking off another low pressure system:


The upper cold trough over the eastern US here http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-24.GIF?23-0


triggers the low pressure SE of Newfoundland here http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-48.GIF?23-0


which develops in 24 hours to this http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-72.GIF?23-0


and becomes our Friday storm http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-96.GIF?23-0


 


Meanwhile the next LP is triggered by the cold uppers leaving the US on the final chart (T+96), which develops to this in mid-Atlantic at T+120: http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-120.GIF?23-0


Then another at T+168 http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-168.GIF?23-0


And another at T+216: http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122312/ECH1-216.GIF?23-0


The final one seems to be taking a more NE track, heading perhaps for southern Greenland instead of straight across the Atlantic.


Originally Posted by: nickl 


Great commentary there. Again, hints of a pressure rise to the South- pushing the jet North and allowing us to be on the mild side of things. So the pattern change may not be what some people want, if it's cold your looking for. In the meantime very wet and windy.

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


Jas the charts that I have been looking show a cooler trend ................any chance you can post the links to the charts you have been looking at old chap


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Just a general observation Marcus, quite a few runs have flirted with a pressure rise to the South at the end of the timeframe. Interestingly, now the 15 day ECM is still showing LP domination but with those lows spinning further and further North, quite possibly due to the jet and HP influence to the South. Very interesting developments if you don't mind mild, but to be honest very little to grasp if your a coldie. Still lots of rain on offer- though frosts should be kept to a minimum hopefully.

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


but the 15 day ecm ens mean is consistently showing heights dropping over france as we head through week 2 ?????


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

Well I'm quite pleased with the output and so should anyone living in the North of Engalnd northwards if it's snow your after, trough digging further and further South can only be good for those of us in the North. I've already reorded two falls of snow this month, well more of a patchy dusting to be precise but non the less it's been a good month around here for interesting weather. Long may it continue!

Gooner
24 December 2013 13:28:57

So ECM is the be all and end all


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


nickl
24 December 2013 13:33:28

So ECM is the be all and end all

Originally Posted by: Gooner 



Nope but naefs trending in a similar direction. will have a better view by Boxing Day.
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