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NickR
  • NickR
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
26 December 2013 23:40:18

Too full and boozed out from Christmas to do much with this opening post.


Onwards...


Nick
Durham
[email protected]
NickR
  • NickR
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
26 December 2013 23:41:02
nouska's post from the old thread..

There are certainly more options between 0 and 180 wind direction than what there was - most are still indicating winds returning round the base of a trough - possible battleground location?.

http://i.imgur.com/s5nMGkj.png 

http://www.weerplaza.nl/...wachting/?type=eps_pluim 
Nick
Durham
[email protected]
TomC
  • TomC
  • Advanced Member
27 December 2013 00:01:38
The ecm postage stamps at T+240 and beyond show a wide range of scenarios few are blocked (5 by my count) the rest show a range of NW / transient northerlies etc
nouska
27 December 2013 00:17:55
http://i.imgur.com/RmySJHy.png  Nothing much showing for any of the categories at that range but does show the control 500 heights.

Gooner
27 December 2013 00:43:38

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gensnh-18-1-348.png?18


I'm sure many would pick these as an outcome


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gensnh-6-1-372.png?18


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gensnh-11-1-288.png?18


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Karl Guille
27 December 2013 01:03:09
Need to see more of these on a regular basis and closer to the reliable timeframe before we can even hope for something colder! ECM Op was one of the coldest runs on the 12z but at least shows us what we could get if everything fell in the right place!!
St. Sampson
Guernsey
nsrobins
27 December 2013 01:14:07

As much as I admire the enthisiasm, nothing has really changed in the last week and the MetO extended outlooks continue to have a pretty decent grasp on the outlook IMO. It's pretty much zonal Atlantic strong jet driven mobility right into January with any othe roption still very much in the minority.
There would have to be an awful lot more evidence than a few hand-picked ensemble pertubations to persuade me otherwise I'm afraid.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Jim_AFCB
27 December 2013 07:48:47

Agree with this.


 


There are no consistent indications of much of a chance to the current setup in the next 7-10 days or so, and until the models consistently start to show this in that time frame, I will still expect more of the same of what we have had for the foreseeable, albeit less severe.


 


That said, things can change within a relatively short period of time and of course it is possible we could get to a situation where, towards the end of the first week in Jan, we could be looking down the barrel of a cold spell. But I just can't see that at the moment.


 


It is interesting to see one poster after another, both here and in the other place, picking out charts showing cold spell possibilities, then I read Gibby's assessments. The latter, together with my own look at the charts, leads me to discount any realistic possibility of the former. For now.


Jim, Bournemouth, Dorset. Home of the mighty Cherries
Bournemouth Weather Onine - Click here. 
Rob K
27 December 2013 07:50:33
Morning all. Not much to cheer on the charts today with lots of blocking on offer over the pole but also blocking to our south effectively creating a nice corridor to funnel all the low pressure systems over us. The Scandi high once again proving to be an illusion.

And I've got to go back to work today. Bah humbug!
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
GIBBY
27 December 2013 08:09:07

Good morning. Here is the reports on the midnight outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Friday December 27th 2013.


All models show a deep depression to the NW of Britain today moving slowly away North over the next few days but maintaining a showery Westerly flow over the UK with some of these falling wintry in the North. Strong winds will slowly moderate. By Sunday a new Low brings further fronts NE with rain in tow for all areas and further strong winds. The pattern then continues up to the New Year with all models showing rain bands mixed with showery interludes in basically quite strong SW winds and average temperatures.


GFS then shows New Year celebrations taking place under windy and often wet conditions with SW winds continuing to blow and maintaining average temperatures. Then as we move through Week 1 of 2014 and into Week 2 little change is shown with Low pressure continuing to race over the Atlantic over or to the North of the UK with spells of rain alternating with brighter and clearer spells with showers, wintry on hills in the North.


UKMO ends it's run with the chart for next Thursday showing Low pressure over the entire North Atlantic with one small and vigorous centre moving NE then North up the spine of Britain bringing more wet and windy conditions well into the New Year.


GEM today shows very unsettled weather under deep and complex Low pressure to the North then over the UK before sliding it SE late in the run towards NW Europe. There would be spells of wet and windy weather with showery spells intermixed. With time the air would turn colder with wintry showers for many by Day 9 before a toppling ridge from the Azores High gives a quieter interlude before new Low pressure steams across the Atlantic towards Britain soon after the end of Day 10.


NAVGEM shows Low pressure out to the NW in the first few days of 2014 with a strong WSW flow bringing spells of rain and strong winds across the UK throughout.


ECM today shows a wet and often windy start to 2014 too with just relatively short drier spells as ridges attached to an Azores High cross the UK for a day or two in the first week before by Day 10 the chart looks like the UK could be staring down the barrel of another very wet and windy period with Westerly gales.


The GFS Ensembles show very stubborn resilience to any form of change from an Unsettled Atlantic based pattern with rain at times and temperatures close to the long term mean for areas North and South of the British Isles.


The Jet Stream continues to trek across the Atlantic Ocean in the general direction of the British Isles for the foreseeable future. It does shift briefly South at times allowing trough to dig deeper down over the UK but not sufficiently so on this morning's output to offer any form of pattern change by encouraging any meaningful High Level blocking to the East and NE to affect the UK anytime soon.


In Summary the current pattern is maintained this morning with spells of wet and windy weather alternating with spells of slightly colder weather with sunshine and showers. Temperatures look like staying largely close to average over the next two weeks but that doesn't exclude the odd colder interlude from polar maritime incursions giving some snow on Northern hills at times. Overall the prospect of any cessation of this powerful Atlantic train anytime soon remains low with an unsupportive Jet flow orientation and strength coupled with the resulting ever present High pressure belt well to the South keeping a strong Westerly flow over the Atlantic towards the UK.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



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nsrobins
27 December 2013 08:13:29

Morning all. Not much to cheer on the charts today with lots of blocking on offer over the pole but also blocking to our south effectively creating a nice corridor to funnel all the low pressure systems over us. The Scandi high once again proving to be an illusion.

And I've got to go back to work today. Bah humbug!

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Bah humbug indeed. No change again and the stuck record is getting a bit tiresome. I might nip back on Monday to see if anything has emerged from the chaos, but that's December and the first week of January gone down the pan as far as 'winter' is concerned IMHO


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Chiltern Blizzard
27 December 2013 09:06:22

As much as I admire the enthisiasm, nothing has really changed in the last week and the MetO extended outlooks continue to have a pretty decent grasp on the outlook IMO. It's pretty much zonal Atlantic strong jet driven mobility right into January with any othe roption still very much in the minority.
There would have to be an awful lot more evidence than a few hand-picked ensemble pertubationsto persuade me otherwise I'm afraid.

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 



The main thing to have changed in the past week is 'hope'. A week ago the charts were about as bad as they could get, now about half the runs show something good, or potentially good in the 10+ day range. The lack of consistency and the distance away of anything potentially wintry mean it should only be hope that is felt, rather than expectation... Odds don't favour, but don't rule out, cold imo in the next fortnight at least.

Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
Gooner
27 December 2013 09:07:15

Temps IMBY from 0z


8c 6c 4c 8c 9c 6c 7c 7c 8c 5c 3c 3c 5c 6c 4 c 3c


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Frost Hollow
27 December 2013 09:11:26

And it goes on....and i keep saving money on heating oil, coal & logs


The Beast from the East
27 December 2013 09:11:34

the hope of recent days seems to have been blown away. Of course, if we end up in this "tunnel" between the two highs, it will only mean more rain and misery. Happy New year


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Gooner
27 December 2013 09:14:04


the hope of recent days seems to have been blown away. Of course, if we end up in this "tunnel" between the two highs, it will only mean more rain and misery. Happy New year


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


It does seem that way , even I am struggling to find thing decent , I think I might have a month off


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


The Beast from the East
27 December 2013 09:19:46

a crumb of comfort is that ECM op was one of the mild options


http://www.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/vijftiendaagse/index.php


Also, Ferguson suggesting a chance of some cold weather in Jan


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Gooner
27 December 2013 09:24:56


a crumb of comfort is that ECM op was one of the mild options


http://www.knmi.nl/exp/pluim/vijftiendaagse/index.php


Also, Ferguson suggesting a chance of some cold weather in Jan


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


and March


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/cfs/runs/2013122606/run2/cfsnh-0-2016.png?06   


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Maunder Minimum
27 December 2013 09:32:18

the hope of recent days seems to have been blown away. Of course, if we end up in this "tunnel" between the two highs, it will only mean more rain and misery. Happy New yearUserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 



Well, what did you expect? As pointed out on many occasions, once zonality sets in at this time of year, it takes an earthquake to shift it. There is little point clutching at straws like a drowning man. The only possibility of a decent cold spell this side of mid-February, is if there is major disruption to the polar vortex, but that is unlikely for as long as Canada is feeding cyclogenesis into the North Atlantic.

You don't need crumbs in other words, you need overwhelming cross model agreement at t+96 before you can even consider a cold spell it at all likely.

New world order coming.
squish
27 December 2013 09:34:30
A stormy start to the New Year across the models - in fact all of next week looks atrocious

But a high of 1040mb near Svaalbard (UKMO+144) is something to watch as things can change very quickly.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rukm1441.gif 

Longer term a continuation of the stormy zonal conditions seems most likely, but as with last nights ECM there are signs here and there of a potential change around the corner.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rgem2401.gif 



D.E.W on Dartmoor. 300m asl
KevBrads1
27 December 2013 09:44:33

As pointed out on many occasions, once zonality sets in at this time of year, it takes an earthquake to shift it.

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 



I don't agree, zonality will last as long as it will last depending if the conditions favour at the time. It could last two months, it could last two weeks. It could take a seismic shift, it could take a small tweek, it depends on the state of the atmosphere and the variables at the time. To know how long it lasts would be like knowing how long a piece of string is.
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Quantum
27 December 2013 09:49:14

the hope of recent days seems to have been blown away. Of course, if we end up in this "tunnel" between the two highs, it will only mean more rain and misery. Happy New yearUserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

Well, what did you expect? As pointed out on many occasions, once zonality sets in at this time of year, it takes an earthquake to shift it. There is little point clutching at straws like a drowning man. The only possibility of a decent cold spell this side of mid-February, is if there is major disruption to the polar vortex, but that is unlikely for as long as Canada is feeding cyclogenesis into the North Atlantic. You don't need crumbs in other words, you need overwhelming cross model agreement at t+96 before you can even consider a cold spell it at all likely.

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


I agree, and this is what worries me . The 12Z yesterday was a bit more hopeful with something trying to happen from the NE, which would seem to be a better way of getting into a cold situ than anything from the NW atm. However apart from that one run, heights are refusing to build over scandi, and with that cold pool over canada any other means of getting to a cold spell all look futile. And despite a few short periods of moderation, the CFS is keeping the cold pool stuck until march, just like previous runs. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Chiltern Blizzard
27 December 2013 09:54:06

the hope of recent days seems to have been blown away. Of course, if we end up in this "tunnel" between the two highs, it will only mean more rain and misery. Happy New yearUserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 



The fact we have had some good charts in the past two days is grounds for hope, even if the 0z chart isn't do great... Too much store is being placed on the current ops imo.

Last week, I'd have given the chances of a cold spell developing in the next fortnight as <5%, now, based on all output of past few days, and not giving undue prominence to current ops, its more like 25-30%... So wintry weather still the underdog, but it's not a write-off.
Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
David M Porter
27 December 2013 09:56:17

the hope of recent days seems to have been blown away. Of course, if we end up in this "tunnel" between the two highs, it will only mean more rain and misery. Happy New yearUserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

Well, what did you expect? As pointed out on many occasions, once zonality sets in at this time of year, it takes an earthquake to shift it. There is little point clutching at straws like a drowning man. The only possibility of a decent cold spell this side of mid-February, is if there is major disruption to the polar vortex, but that is unlikely for as long as Canada is feeding cyclogenesis into the North Atlantic. You don't need crumbs in other words, you need overwhelming cross model agreement at t+96 before you can even consider a cold spell it at all likely.

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Well we had a spell of fairly strong atlantic zonality over last Xmas & New Year (albeit without the same stormy winds as seen in recent days), and I don't recall it lasting an eternity after that. I do seem to recall that at this time last year, there were some subtle hints in the FI range of some model runs of a possible pattern change once we had got past the first week of January 2013, but subtle hints is all they were, and I don't recall there being mich if any run-to-run consistency. I don't know whether the SSW that occured in January was forecast before the end of last December, but nonetheless it just went to show that not all zonal spells last for an eternity.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Stormchaser
27 December 2013 09:57:53

I was wary of the trend of the winter so far and it appears to have struck again, although GFS and ECM have actually moved towards each other rather than just ECM towards GFS.


Unfortunately that means that we see higher heights to our NE but only to an extent which traps troughs across the UK. Energy could still dig SE of course - GFS wasn't far away with that, and in that regard ECM is highly unlucky with the way the upstream energy behaves. The trapped trough across the UK frequently angles the jet stream south into Europe.


The net outcome looks to be a colder form of zonality for the most part, with a lot more rain and the risk of a severe wind event somewhere (ECM's 216-240h progression indictes a vicious secondary low racing across the south).


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