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The Beast from the East
01 January 2014 10:46:55

GFS eventually builds a large block to the East.


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
doctormog
01 January 2014 10:47:09

Happy to take some drier weather as hinted at by the models this morning, but please, please, please no easterly (or worse still, south-easterly). Never fails to bring miserable weather in my neck of the woods, whatever the season.UserPostedImage
But regardless....a Happy New Year to all.

Originally Posted by: ghawes 



You just had to say it didn't you Graeme? 😝

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3721.png 

Happy New Year anyway. [sn_bsmil]
Chiltern Blizzard
01 January 2014 10:47:40


The ECM Ensembles Mean chart

Originally Posted by: Retron 


..is useless today. What do you get when you average a load of SW'ly runs with a bunch of easterly or NE'ly runs? Exactly! UserPostedImage

Originally Posted by: GIBBY 



I wouldn't necessarily be so dismissive... A 'blended' solution shouldn't be ruled out, albeit that this would be rather dull from a model-watching perspective.

Andrew

Ps thanks for your interpretation of the ECMs reently - very helpful.

Pps. Dare I say it but ECM op at 240z has shades of Feb 91 - theren have jinxed it now!

Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
Gooner
01 January 2014 10:47:40

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014010106/gfsnh-0-372.png?6


A battle setting up


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014010106/gfsnh-1-372.png?6


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Rob K
01 January 2014 11:03:04
A nice end to the GFS run there with the Atlantic low losing the battle against a giant block to the east. That would potentially set up something rather tasty for later in January.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Phil G
01 January 2014 11:07:00
GFS was hinting at HP building from the NE around a week ago and with support from ECM the odds have shortened slightly in favour of cold. Still a long way out however and there was a big change in the GFS where next Tuesdays storm appears to be sucked back into a larger storm off the Eastern seaboard.
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1501.png 
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1681.png 

Key component further down the line could be the way this Atlantic activity pans out.
nickl
01 January 2014 11:11:12
Incidentally, yesterday's ECM ens for Berlin, Warsaw and Stockholm do not smell of a trend to an impending easterly. Wonder if the 00z will show a change
Ally Pally Snowman
01 January 2014 11:21:36

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014010106/gfsnh-10-312.png?6 
GFS increases the warming

Originally Posted by: Gooner 




Look at the warming by day 16 incredible. Could have a massive effect on our weather if the warming is this extreme.

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=384&mode=10&carte=1 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Gooner
01 January 2014 11:49:15

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014010106/gfsnh-10-312.png?6  GFS increases the warming

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

Look at the warming by day 16 incredible. Could have a massive effect on our weather if the warming is this extreme. http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=384&mode=10&carte=1

Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Blimey some huge warming , what effect though??  who knows ???


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


White Meadows
01 January 2014 11:51:18
ECM has teased in recent days since Xmas. It's a case of jam tomorrow and no doubt disappears on tonight's 12z.
For the mean time I'll take anything over this continuous wet & very windy nightmare down south.
Chiltern Blizzard
01 January 2014 12:09:51

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014010106/gfsnh-10-312.png?6 
GFS increases the warming

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 




Look at the warming by day 16 incredible. Could have a massive effect on our weather if the warming is this extreme.

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=384&mode=10&carte=1 

Originally Posted by: Gooner 



Quite a turn around from only yesterday when the strat warming looked to be waning... A pool of >+8 now. Does anyone have any info on how significant this warming is compared to last or other years?

Andrew
Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
Quantum
01 January 2014 12:59:13
Quite a turn around from only yesterday when the strat warming looked to be waning... A pool of >+8 now. Does anyone have any info on how significant this warming is compared to last or other years? Andrew


Its off the scale nouska used in his paper


http://p-martineau.com/ssw-animations/


 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
johnm1976
01 January 2014 13:05:27
CFS daily, ECM and GFS all hinting at change but a significant strat warming is now appearing on GFS, NAVGEM and JMA. On GFS the strat vortex is obliterated out in FI. The strat has been unusually cold over the pole this winter - if this verifies it should shake things up and produce some late Jan/ Feb cold, potentially sustained.

OT, but SSWs are now a common feature of winter. Any ideas on why this is? Ozone is formed by a photochemical reaction, something to do with low solar activity?

OK, now having mentioned strat warming for the 15 millionth time (and noting I'm not the only one commenting on it here) I'm going to duck back behind the parapet and wish you all a HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
colin46
01 January 2014 13:32:02
Edited
shine on you crazy diamond
192.104 m / 630.262 feet ASL
colin46
01 January 2014 13:47:15

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/archive/ra/1947/Rrea00119470130.gif


shine on you crazy diamond
192.104 m / 630.262 feet ASL
01 January 2014 14:03:11
Slightly off topic, looking at these models, charts and reports.. Are BBC weather forecasts (national) live......? Or pre recorded, so some data used from charts/models are not current (in the now frame) just wondering after todays 1pm weather forecast......?

PS.
Happy new year all..
VSC
bledur
01 January 2014 14:13:06

looking at the latest models and forecastsa change in the weather is on the way around the 10th onwards . does not look that cold at present but at least it should be drier i thought sudden stratospheric warming was pretty common in the winter, but has to evolve a certain way to give us prolonged cold which at the moment is not forecast.

Chiltern Blizzard
01 January 2014 14:17:40
I believe SSW events occur every other year (on average) in the northern hemisphere winter... So very common, and certainly not the case that each one will put us into an extended deep freeze a la 1963. Interesting only one has ever been recorded in the southern hemisphere for reasons I don't understand.

Andrew
Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
jondg14
01 January 2014 14:19:07


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014010106/gfsnh-10-312.png?6  GFS increases the warming

Originally Posted by: Gooner 

Look at the warming by day 16 incredible. Could have a massive effect on our weather if the warming is this extreme. http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=384&mode=10&carte=1

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Blimey some huge warming , what effect though??  who knows ???


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


All speculative at this stage but you can just see the +12C isotherm on the 384h chart! I can't remember seeing anything that high in warmings in the last few winters especially directly over the pole. It is currently about -80C at 10hPa over the pole so that is one hell of a difference.


I imagine the effect of such an extreme warming would be to further disrupt the stratospheric vortex leading to a reversal of zonal winds i.e. a SSW. It could be a dramatically different second half of winter!

jondg14
01 January 2014 14:27:36

I believe SSW events occur every other year (on average) in the northern hemisphere winter... So very common, and certainly not the case that each one will put us into an extended deep freeze a la 1963. Interesting only one has ever been recorded in the southern hemisphere for reasons I don't understand. Andrew

Originally Posted by: Chiltern Blizzard 


It's strange that they are very frequent and almost exclusive to the Northern Hemisphere. It would be interesting to know the cause.


SSWs don't guarantee anything for us weather-wise but the greater the warming/zonal wind reversal the more likely we are to see surface pressure anomalies.

nouska
01 January 2014 14:28:51
happy new year to all

i would be wary of these strat runs, little on 00z and huge outlier on 06z - see plot from belgian site -

http://weerwoord.be/includes/forum_read.php?id=1930965&tid=1930902 

sorry, no caps shift as right hand in plaster.
Andy Woodcock
01 January 2014 14:30:28
I would imagine that such a massive warming would destroy the current intense zonalality and allow very cold arctic air to spill out towards mid latitudes, however, it could as easily head to Greece ad to the uk and we would be left with a mid latitude high.

All speculative if course but such an intense warming especially over the pole will have an dramatic effect of some kind.

Andy
Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
Quantum
01 January 2014 14:33:55

I believe SSW events occur every other year (on average) in the northern hemisphere winter... So very common, and certainly not the case that each one will put us into an extended deep freeze a la 1963. Interesting only one has ever been recorded in the southern hemisphere for reasons I don't understand. Andrew

Originally Posted by: Chiltern Blizzard 


The wikipedia article on this is quite interesting. It suggests that SSW events in the N hemisphere are caused by a meandering jet that propagates into the stratosphere and causes the winds to slow down there. This in itself is interesting, because strat warming is apparantly caused by stuff going on in the troposphere?! So is the whole thing a positive feedback mechanism? Anyway the implication of all this, is that the southern hemisphere doesnt get SSW events because there are no midlatitude continents bordering oceans (that are perpendicular to the west-east winds - antartica is parallel) so nothing to cause the meandering jet. 


 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Gooner
01 January 2014 14:38:38

Slightly off topic, looking at these models, charts and reports.. Are BBC weather forecasts (national) live......? Or pre recorded, so some data used from charts/models are not current (in the now frame) just wondering after todays 1pm weather forecast......? PS. Happy new year all.. VSC

Originally Posted by: VIRTUAL STORMCHASER 


Both , it depends which ones you catch


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
01 January 2014 14:40:23


I believe SSW events occur every other year (on average) in the northern hemisphere winter... So very common, and certainly not the case that each one will put us into an extended deep freeze a la 1963. Interesting only one has ever been recorded in the southern hemisphere for reasons I don't understand. Andrew

Originally Posted by: jondg14 


It's strange that they are very frequent and almost exclusive to the Northern Hemisphere. It would be interesting to know the cause.


SSWs don't guarantee anything for us weather-wise but the greater the warming/zonal wind reversal the more likely we are to see surface pressure anomalies.


Originally Posted by: Chiltern Blizzard 


But certainly gives us a much greater chance of blocking somewhere around the BI's , as mentioned by J Hammond last year


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


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