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LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
01 January 2014 21:07:03
At the same time while we have our Atlantic Systems with mild sectors, the Canada and USA takes the best of Wintery and Snowy W E A T H E R.

Let it be, Let it be.


Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge. 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.
GIBBY
01 January 2014 21:08:03

Good evening. Here is the report on the 12 noon outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Wednesday January 1st 2014.


All models show the very unsettled period persisting for some considerable time tonight with the next week seeing all models show deep Low pressure areas repeatedly moving NE to the NW of Britain with spells of heavy rain alternating with sunshine and showers taking us out towards the middle of next week.


GFS then maintains the feed of wet and sometimes wild conditions with further Low pressure areas maintaining a well worn path across the Atlantic with a continual feed of strong West winds and troughs feeding band of rain after rain across the UK in temperatures close to average.


The GFS Ensembles continue with the unabated pattern of Atlantic based weather with periods of rain and showers across all areas throughout the next few weeks in temperatures close to average.


UKMO on Tuesday 7th shows a slow moving and filling depression South of Iceland with further rain and showers feeding NE across the UK, heaviest in the South and West in relatively mild SW winds.


GEM shows little overall change with the continuing feed of Atlantic winds in the vicinity of the UK though the effects will be less dramatic than of late with the heaviest rain returning to more Northern and Western areas later next week.


NAVGEM also shows lessening effects of the SW flow which is generally maintained across the UK towards the end of next week with mild and dry conditions likely across SE Britain at the end of the run.


ECM tonight continues to show a much better outlook later next week with Low pressure filling up to the NE and rising pressure leading to drier and brighter conditions with light winds and sunny spells but also sharp frosts at night later next week.


The ECM 10 Day Mean Chart is attached and shows to me that the majority of the ECM members show something less settled than the operational is indicating but that is not to say it isn't right as others have pointed out it is three operationals in a row that have shown something more settled later next week.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2401.gif


The Jet Stream pattern remains strong and as were for the next week or so with the flow remaining fast and strong in an Eastwards direction close to Southern Britain. The trend is much less clear cut thereafter with a rather weaker flow at least tempering the flow and location later.


In Summary the pattern remains the same as this morning with the main exception being that of ECM which once more shows an operational run which shows the weather improving markedly later next week under High pressure. The rest show less well structured improvements in pressure levels with winds remaining Westerly with further rain at times through the second week.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Quantum
01 January 2014 21:35:43

Can I dispell the myth that once zonality is set in, it is hard to shift? It depends on whether the conditions will allow it to shift. Zonality will last as long as those conditions that favour it last. Sometimes, it is just a week, sometimes it could be nearly 3 months ala autumn 2000. If you know how long zonality will last then you can tell me how long a piece of string is.

Originally Posted by: Chiltern Blizzard 

Excellent post - fully agree. It's all too easy (and I include myself in this) to underestimate the uncertainty in models where they are consistently showing a particular weather pattern at a 10-14 day range. It can feel locked-in, when in reality, it's far from it. Andrew

Originally Posted by: four 




I wonder if a stormy spell can sow the seeds of its own demise by dissipating energy.
The North Atlantic has cooled a lot as a result of the stream of depressions presumably.

Originally Posted by: Chiltern Blizzard 



The impact of ocean cooling caused by strong winter storms developing off the eastern seaboard would be an important factor in the longevity of a zonal spell, but only one amongst a host of other inter-related factors. Any pattern change will result from the net impact and interplay of all atmospheric factors rather than being 'caused' by x,y or z.

Originally Posted by: KevBrads1 


Might be wrong here, but isn't this just a compensation for the lack of hurricanes and tropical cyclones this year? I thought they did a good job of cooling down that part of the world?


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Whether Idle
01 January 2014 22:39:16


 


In Summary the pattern remains the same as this morning with the main exception being that of ECM which once more shows an operational run which shows the weather improving markedly later next week under High pressure. The rest show less well structured improvements in pressure levels with winds remaining Westerly with further rain at times through the second week.


Originally Posted by: GIBBY 


The Met Office 3 week outlook...


: 16th - 30th January 2014 :Current indications suggest that the recent unsettled conditions will persist at first. However there are then some signals that the weather may undergo a change later in this period, as colder conditions become increasingly likely. This would increase the risk of some wintry conditions developing during the second half of January, although mainly across the northern parts of the UK. This also indicates the potential for more settled conditions, bringing less in the way of windy and wet weather by the end of the month.


...fits with the models other than the ECM; which is isolated and vulnerable tonight.  Things may change in the latter third of January as the Met O suggest very tentatively in their summary; in the meantime secure your possessions and put on your sowesters if you hadnt already donned them.


Edit - latest FI from GFS - zonal


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=324&mode=0


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Gooner
01 January 2014 22:49:11

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014010118/gfsnh-0-192.png?18


Bit of a ridge at 192


 


After that the zonal train continues


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014010118/gfsnh-0-384.png?18


 



Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Whether Idle
01 January 2014 22:53:34


...the zonal train continues


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014010118/gfsnh-0-384.png?18


 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Indeed, can that be surprising?  NO!  Is it exasperating?  YES!


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Quantum
01 January 2014 22:57:45




Trust me, I'm sure you'd be feeling worse if that ridge didn't collapse. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Rob K
01 January 2014 23:17:38
Yes, the 528 dam line is almost down to Biscay - pretty unusual in a westerly regime!

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3843.png 
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Quantum
01 January 2014 23:46:17

Yes, the 528 dam line is almost down to Biscay - pretty unusual in a westerly regime! Originally Posted by: Rob K 

">http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3843.png


I think we might expect these returning polar spells to be downgraded in intensity as we get closer to the event, the models do seem to overestimate how far the cold air can travel before being moderated too much. For instance the models originally predicted quite widespread snow showers on xmas eve being blown on by a cold rpm Swrly wind. In the end the snow showers were restricted to Ireland, and were sleet and rain to lower levels by the time they had crossed the irish sea. Indeed SW ireland seems to be in the firing line during any intense rpm cold snap although it is pretty unusual for it to be cold enough for snow (away from highland scotland ofc); xmas eve was fairly unusual in that respect. 


Having said that you can get pm airmasses in a westerly regime but it tends to be asociated with a cyclone sitting pretty close to the UK. 


 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Whether Idle
02 January 2014 07:13:24

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=240&mode=1&map=0&archive=0


ECM at day 10 showing raging zonality.


GEM shows undercutting:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=0&carte=0


GFS showing zonality albeit the Azores has some influence.


 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?mode=0&ech=204


 


 


 


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Scandy 1050 MB
02 January 2014 08:04:51


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=240&mode=1&map=0&archive=0


ECM at day 10 showing raging zonality.


GEM shows undercutting:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=0&carte=0


GFS showing zonality albeit the Azores has some influence.


 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?mode=0&ech=204


 


 


 


 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Yes a backward step this morning including less warming regards the SSW event, however to be expected at this range. Let's see what the next two sets of runs bring.

KevBrads1
02 January 2014 08:13:03
I made a comment about yesterday's 06z GFS Manchester pressure ensembles on netweather in that they were hinting of some kind of pressure rise around the 9th. This is more evident on the 0z ones. Definite the mean is higher than they were on the 06z ones. Will this continue though?
MANCHESTER SUMMER INDEX for 2021: 238
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JACKO4EVER
02 January 2014 08:23:42


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=240&mode=1&map=0&archive=0


ECM at day 10 showing raging zonality.


GEM shows undercutting:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=0&carte=0


GFS showing zonality albeit the Azores has some influence.


 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?mode=0&ech=204


 


 


 


 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Morning all.


Huge uncertainty between models- though I am not surprised. What is evident, however, is that there has been a fairly large step backwards if its cold your looking for. I smell a problem for the Stratospheric Warming event, though only time will tell. In the meantime lots of wind and rain to come.


Sasa
  • Sasa
  • Advanced Member
02 January 2014 08:29:23



http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=240&mode=1&map=0&archive=0


ECM at day 10 showing raging zonality.


GEM shows undercutting:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=0&carte=0


GFS showing zonality albeit the Azores has some influence.


 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?mode=0&ech=204


 


 


 


 


Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


Morning all.


Huge uncertainty between models- though I am not surprised. What is evident, however, is that there has been a fairly large step backwards if its cold your looking for. I smell a problem for the Stratospheric Warming event, though only time will tell. In the meantime lots of wind and rain to come.



Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


 


To the contrary, I think even GFS wants to bring the high post mid January. I think the odds are shifting towards a more settled and seasonal outlook. Cannot a make a call just based on one run but I think days of wind and mild much are numbered.


Kingston Upon Thames
Retron
02 January 2014 08:47:05


. I smell a problem for the Stratospheric Warming event


Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


It's already started, so it won't suddenly stop now! What effect it has, of course, is still very much to be decided.


In the meantime the ECM ensembles show slightly fewer blocked / high pressure solutions but even so it still looks like a pattern change is on the way. As before, that doesn't necessarily mean a cold pattern, merely a drier, less windy one.


http://oi41.tinypic.com/2mfbtjb.jpg


 


 


 


 


Leysdown, north Kent
GIBBY
02 January 2014 08:50:56

Good morning everyone. Here is today's review of the 12 midnight outputs from the NWP for today Thursday January 2nd 2014.


All models continue to show the UK weather driven by a strong Jet flow across the Atlantic towards the Southern UK. Within this flow large depressions are shown to move up towards NW Britain with strong to gale SW winds and periods of rain running through on active troughs followed by periods of sunshine and squally showers. This process occurs through tonight and tomorrow and again on Sunday and Monday with just brief drier interludes in between principally today and again later on Saturday. Early next week then shows a large Low close to NW Britain filling steadily but maintaining rather showery conditions across the UK but with decreasing winds and temperatures a little lower, especially by night in the more sheltered East.


GFS then shows the midweek period with a continuing SW feed under rising pressure and further showers before a longer spell of rain associated with new troughs pushes East across the UK late in the week. This is followed by drier weather moving across from the West under a brief anticyclone close to SE England for a time next weekend. The pattern remains changeable however and it isn't long before further Atlantic fronts and Low pressure threaten the dry period with further rain at least for a time late in the run.


The GFS Ensembles maintain next to no chance of major cold over UK shores within the two week spell keeping temperatures very close to average with rain at times throughout the run though amounts may well reduce from the amounts experienced of late, at least for a time.


UKMO today shows filling Low pressure up to the NW later next week with SW winds decreasing and a broad trough just to the West. As a result further sunshine and showery type weather looks likely in average temperatures or a little above and with some Eastern areas becoming largely dry.


GEM keeps very unsettled weather going throughout it's later stages as further Low pressure forms to the SW and later West with rain and showers continuing for all areas at times with temperatures close to average.


NAVGEM shows gently rising pressure through next week but doesn't eradicate the risk of rain at times anywhere although the North will see the majority of it later next week as pressure rises enough over the South to give at least some dry and bright weather at times. Temperatures would stay close to average but slight ground frost at night could be possible in the South under light winds and clearing night time skies.


ECM without the earlier support of it's ensembles has dropped it's High pressure phase later next week as it now shows a continuation of Low pressure being fed in off the Atlantic from the West to maintain frequent areas of rain and showers across all areas in strong winds at times and fairly standard and average January temperatures.


The ECM 10 Day Mean Chart shows a bias of pressure being High to the South and Low to the North-West near Iceland. The resultant Westerly flow indicates the weather is likely to remain somewhat unsettled and probably rather mild in the South with closer proximity to higher pressure to the South than recently.


ECM 10 Day Mean Chart


The GFS Jet Forecast continues to blow strongly East over the Atlantic close to Southern Britain before it shows less clear signals later but with a bias to maintain a course similar to currently but less strong than of late particularly at the European end.


In Summary today there seems little to indicate anything other than a continuation of the Atlantic based weather pattern. It looks certain that after the early week storm that some lessening in the depth of unsettledness and strength of depressions flowing in from the West will lead to less gales and heavy rain but will nevertheless keep things generally changeable with some rain at times. With High pressure looking possible to creep in close to the South at times the feed of air from the West or SW could become rather mild at times in the South later. There remains little concrete evidence in this morning's output of any risk of severe cold, ice or snow anywhere in the UK anytime soon.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
The Beast from the East
02 January 2014 09:13:33

It is looking increasingly likely that winter will only start towards the end of the month, perhaps with the help of the SSW.


In the meantime, hopefully it will dry up a bit. Would be nice to see some frosts as well


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Stormchaser
02 January 2014 09:37:03

GFS has moved to the ECM solution regarding a powerful storm across the Central U.S. in 5-6 days time. That event acts to shift  the region of storm development to the west, with troughs peaking close to the East Coast rather than more towards the UK.


Slowly but surely, this is reflected in high pressure ridging across the UK. This is not a bad thing to have when blocking highs are developing in the Arctic, as it means we have more chance of supressing the trough energy with blocking and sending it sliding.


 


As ECM in particular makes clear, it will take time for the trough energy near to the UK to subside enough to produce promising charts for a cold incursion. In the mean time, the trough positioning will tend to promote an Atlantic flow without much cold air reaching us.


I'll be keeping an eye out for corrections south in the trough positioning, as that's not uncommon when there's blocking being developed in the Arctic.


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

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2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
David M Porter
02 January 2014 09:53:00



. I smell a problem for the Stratospheric Warming event


Originally Posted by: Retron 


It's already started, so it won't suddenly stop now! What effect it has, of course, is still very much to be decided.


In the meantime the ECM ensembles show slightly fewer blocked / high pressure solutions but even so it still looks like a pattern change is on the way. As before, that doesn't necessarily mean a cold pattern, merely a drier, less windy one.


http://oi41.tinypic.com/2mfbtjb.jpg


 


 


 


 


Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


That's what we need more than anything right now- a drier spell. Much as many here may want to see some snow, that in itself would only cause further complications for those affected by flooding caused by the recent very wet weather. In many ways, we're in the same position we were in at the end of 2012/ start of 2013.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
nouska
02 January 2014 11:00:44



http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=240&mode=1&map=0&archive=0


ECM at day 10 showing raging zonality.


GEM shows undercutting:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=0&carte=0


GFS showing zonality albeit the Azores has some influence.


 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?mode=0&ech=204


 


 


 


 


Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


Morning all.


Huge uncertainty between models- though I am not surprised. What is evident, however, is that there has been a fairly large step backwards if its cold your looking for. I smell a problem for the Stratospheric Warming event, though only time will tell. In the meantime lots of wind and rain to come.



Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Only problem for the strat event is that there are two teams(wave 1 and 2), one playing push and the other playing shove. The teams keep changing position (location) and numbers (temp) but are unable to make much headway other than to move the vortex back and forth. Last year the teams joined forces and job done in no time at all. These guys need to get together or add more members to each team (to get a split) - we could be at this stage for a while.

Charmhills
02 January 2014 11:47:50

Still looking Atlantic dominated throughout the output today.


Less in the way of strong winds but still a fair amount of rain.


Pattern change I think not!


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Retron
02 January 2014 12:12:19


Still looking Atlantic dominated throughout the output today.


Originally Posted by: Charmhills 


Really? I don't think so.


There are still signs of a pattern change coming in my view. I'll be amazed if, by the 9th, we're not looking at a different type of outlook from the stormy, rain-drenched spell we're having at the moment.


Leysdown, north Kent
Charmhills
02 January 2014 12:41:09

 




Still looking Atlantic dominated throughout the output today.


Originally Posted by: Retron 


Really? I don't think so.


There are still signs of a pattern change coming in my view. I'll be amazed if, by the 9th, we're not looking at a different type of outlook from the stormy, rain-drenched spell we're having at the moment.


Originally Posted by: Charmhills 


I'm not convinced at this stage Darren.


Past mid month who knows.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Quantum
02 January 2014 13:08:27



Still looking Atlantic dominated throughout the output today.


Originally Posted by: Retron 


Really? I don't think so.


There are still signs of a pattern change coming in my view. I'll be amazed if, by the 9th, we're not looking at a different type of outlook from the stormy, rain-drenched spell we're having at the moment.


Originally Posted by: Charmhills 


With a NAEFS output like this


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/naefs/run/naefsnh-0-0-384.png?0


I would be amazed if there is any pattern change before mid month


 


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/naefs/run/naefsnh-3-1-384.png?0


Even the lowest 10% of the 850 temps predicted struggle to get the -5C into england. 


 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
02 January 2014 13:49:46
Could that split into twin sisters? And if it did/does, what would/are the consequences for the UK........?
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