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David M Porter
03 January 2014 20:30:06

Hints of a change starting to appear in the models this evening. Is this the start of a trend or will the models revert back to zonality continuing?


Take it away folks.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Hungry Tiger
03 January 2014 20:39:49


Hints of a change starting to appear in the models this evening. Is this the start of a trend or will the models revert back to zonality continuing?


Take it away folks.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Nicely introduced there David.


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


White Meadows
03 January 2014 20:41:26
Some cracking output showing up now. The build has been slow but steady... But is it just another blip?...
Where's the Melton Mowbray contingent today 😉
Hungry Tiger
03 January 2014 20:41:27

Too much high pressure to the south I reckon.


http://www.jp2webdesign.co.uk/ds/gfs.htm


More violent and unsettled weather if you ask me.


 


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Stormchaser
03 January 2014 20:56:05

Just a bit more of an Atlantic ridge leads to WAA supporting an Arctic High dropping into Scandi on the 12z ECM op run.


UKMO is close and has the U.S. storm even further west, but the Atlantic ridge isn't quite as strong.


GFS has barely any Atlantic ridge and also has an extra trough near Siberia meddling with the Arctic High.


 


How long until we get a real cracker of a run I wonder? The ECM 192h chart tonight is one of those just across the North Sea... it really did look poised to bring the beast for a minute there!


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

https://twitter.com/peacockreports 
2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Whether Idle
03 January 2014 21:09:01

http://www.jp2webdesign.co.uk/two/ensembles/#ECMshort


The control heads for the freezer


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Stormchaser
03 January 2014 21:09:35

http://f1.nwstatic.co.uk/forum/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-14819-0-91456900-1388782479.png


T-t-t-the c-c-control r-r-r-run...! 


 


For whatever reason, the op and control runs are building stronger heights first as that elongated Atlantic ridge and then to our NE. They also have the U.S. storm further west then many of the ensembles. Remarkably, the UKMO op is about as far west as any ECM solution gets! At least, that's what I've gathered from reading around...


 


Edit: beaten to it by 34 seconds 


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

https://twitter.com/peacockreports 
2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Whether Idle
03 January 2014 21:16:36


http://f1.nwstatic.co.uk/forum/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-14819-0-91456900-1388782479.png


T-t-t-the c-c-control r-r-r-run...! 


 


For whatever reason, the op and control runs are building stronger heights first as that elongated Atlantic ridge and then to our NE. They also have the U.S. storm further west then many of the ensembles. Remarkably, the UKMO op is about as far west as any ECM solution gets! At least, that's what I've gathered from reading around...


 


Edit: beaten to it by 34 seconds 


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


Outlier perhaps


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
David M Porter
03 January 2014 21:21:14



Hints of a change starting to appear in the models this evening. Is this the start of a trend or will the models revert back to zonality continuing?


Take it away folks.


Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 


Nicely introduced there David.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Thanks Gavin.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
GIBBY
03 January 2014 21:33:15

Hi folks. Here is the report on the midday outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Friday January 3rd 2014 taken from http://www.norton-radstockweather.co.uk/Model-Analysis(2859336).htm.


All models continue the very unsettled and disturbed spell of weather with the showery SW flow being complicated by morning by further troughs moving up from the SW late in the night with further heavy rain at times in squally winds. Tomorrow shows this troughing moving North over the UK with showery west winds returning to the SW later. On Sunday a short window of better weather is the precursor to further strong winds and rain later in the day and into Monday in association with another powerful Winter storm winding up to the West and NW of Scotland on Monday. There will be sunshine and very squally showers from the word 'go' in the SW returning later in the day to all areas. Then over Tuesday and Wednesday all models show pressure rising slowly as the Low pressure to the North fills but with a trough close to the South further prolonged rain may affect the South for a time towards midweek while showers largely continue elsewhere.


GFS then shows further unsettled weather later next week and through next weekend as less significant troughs bring bands of rain Eastward across the UK at times in average temperatures. Then later in the run the Atlantic flow strengthens again with further big storms possible to batter the UK with rain and gales by the runs end in continuing temperatures close to average.


The GFS Ensembles show little change from previous runs with the majority of members maintaining largely average temperatures for this time of year with Westerly winds carrying rain and strong winds at times across the UK though on this set not to the severe extent of recent events.


UKMO tonight closes it's run next Thursday with a showery WNW flow ahead of a brief ridge of High pressure covering the UK in sunshine and showers with further unsettled conditions out to the West in the Atlantic poised to affect the UK again late in the week and into the weekend.


GEM keeps things very unsettled again all the way out to the end of its run in 10 days time. With west and then SW winds there will be further rain or showers at times in blustery winds less strong than recently.


NAVGEM shows a belt of Low pressure still across Northern waters with a Westerly flow still blowing across the UK albeit much lighter than of late. There is still scope for occasional rainfall though the South could become rather drier as pressure has built stronger to the South and SE later next week.


ECM shows a very complex pattern setting up later next week as a gentle shift towards colder but still unsettled weather is well on the cards on tonight's operational. High pressure builds over Scandinavia and with a Jet flow moving South some undercutting is permitted throwing the risk of rain, sleet and snow coming up from the SW late next week with a colder, less windy period likely to last through the weekend and into the following week.


The ECM 10 Day Mean Chart continues to look as this morning heavily biased towards Low pressure more likely to be towards the NW of the UK and High to the South with a Westerly flow still indicative over the UK.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2401.gif


The GFS Jet Stream Forecast shows the flow retaining it's current strong East trajectory over the Atlantic towards France or Southern Britain over the next 5 to 7 days. Thereafter it tends to more Southerly levels over the second period of the run indicating the threat of colder weather, though this more likely from Polar maritime air from the NW rather than the East on this run.


In Summary there remains a lot of support for the weather to remain largely unsettled across the UK over the next few weeks with sustained dry weather looking unlikely. However, the strong winds of late should decrease to more modest and average levels given the synoptics as shown. ECM looks much more encouraging for cold weather lovers tonight with it's operational showing a Scandinavian High and undercutting Low pressure towards the SW throwing the risk of lower temperatures and the chance of snowfall to some areas even in the South in among the rainier spells. Whether this is a one off or is expanded upon over subsequent runs is open for debate but it shouldn't be discounted as the Atlantic train, though not lying down becomes less of a ferocious beast with time creating better opportunity for pressure to rise either to the South or North-east later.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Ally Pally Snowman
03 January 2014 21:40:31

http://f1.nwstatic.co.uk/forum/uploads/monthly_01_2014/post-14819-0-91456900-1388782479.png


T-t-t-the c-c-control r-r-r-run...! 


 


For whatever reason, the op and control runs are building stronger heights first as that elongated Atlantic ridge and then to our NE. They also have the U.S. storm further west then many of the ensembles. Remarkably, the UKMO op is about as far west as any ECM solution gets! At least, that's what I've gathered from reading around...


 


Edit: beaten to it by 34 seconds 

Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 




Always good when both the Op and Control go cold. The ensembles often follow shortly afterwards. The Control run really is a thing of beauty.




Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
White Meadows
03 January 2014 21:45:19



Yes Ally but this happened a week before Xmas and it was quickly wiped away on the next run.
Ally Pally Snowman
03 January 2014 21:51:31

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 



Yes Ally but this happened a week before Xmas and it was quickly wiped away on the next run.



Indeed anything could still happen including more mild crapness. But I think we have made 2 or 3 steps towards a cold spell today.

Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
nickl
03 January 2014 21:54:46

i'm interested again. should find out over the next two runs if this is a trend that will gather support. 

JACKO4EVER
03 January 2014 22:01:18

Some cracking output showing up now. The build has been slow but steady... But is it just another blip?...
Where's the Melton Mowbray contingent today ;)

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 



Ha ha always here, lurking behind the scenes LOL
Some colder 850's perhaps on offer, but generally remaining unsettled if you ask me. A few straws to clutch for coldies, but don't be surprised to see these snatched away by tomorrow's runs
Have a great evening folks!
David M Porter
03 January 2014 22:10:08

Some cracking output showing up now. The build has been slow but steady... But is it just another blip?...
Where's the Melton Mowbray contingent today ;)

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 



Ha ha always here, lurking behind the scenes LOL
Some colder 850's perhaps on offer, but generally remaining unsettled if you ask me. A few straws to clutch for coldies, but don't be surprised to see these snatched away by tomorrow's runs
Have a great evening folks!

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


On the other hand, don't be surprised if they are still there tomorrow morning. I sense that things may be a changing.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Andy Woodcock
03 January 2014 22:12:09
Hmmm, it would be unusual to get a sustained scandy high so quickly after such a period of raging zonality

The flip that occurred at the end of January 1986 is a notable exception.

The uppers on the ECM 216 are really quite cold for a continental air mass.....surprising development even if it's gone by tomorrow.

Andy
Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
Quantum
03 January 2014 22:13:13

I have posted one of my 'usual' snow risk maps in the short term thread in full but here is also a link to the image server.


http://oi39.tinypic.com/21d3jvp.jpg


based mostly on short range models. Definately a difficult map to make. Cavets are: map is intended for use of lower levels, probability is a snow risk for any given location in a region. Snow looks likely for parts of Ireland and SW scotland in particular. Could see a few suprises though in SW england...


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
nouska
03 January 2014 22:28:07


i'm interested again. should find out over the next two runs if this is a trend that will gather support. 


Originally Posted by: nickl 


You and Darren were having a discussion about the source of the Met office references to cold later in the month - you (and I) thought it would likely be from the GloSea model. Did you see Fergieweather's comments on NW today regarding MO 30 day update.


"This prognosis into late Jan-early Feb is based on some emerging signals from UKMO modelling (i.e. contra EC32). I might be able to offer more on this for you all over next few days."


and...
"It may be a while yet before the standard NWP output (irrespective of which suite) exhibits reality of possible outcome later into the month, so I'd urge not to take anything seen out at yonder reaches of any main deterministic model (nor their ensembles) at face value, at least for now. Much yet to potentially unfold." 

Gooner
03 January 2014 22:36:05

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014010318/gfsnh-0-228.png?18


LP now to the NW of the UK , it was at the southern tip of Greenland on the previous run


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
03 January 2014 22:48:10

GFS continues with its run of West to East weather


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


nickl
03 January 2014 22:58:15



i'm interested again. should find out over the next two runs if this is a trend that will gather support. 


Originally Posted by: nouska 


You and Darren were having a discussion about the source of the Met office references to cold later in the month - you (and I) thought it would likely be from the GloSea model. Did you see Fergieweather's comments on NW today regarding MO 30 day update.


"This prognosis into late Jan-early Feb is based on some emerging signals from UKMO modelling (i.e. contra EC32). I might be able to offer more on this for you all over next few days."


and...
"It may be a while yet before the standard NWP output (irrespective of which suite) exhibits reality of possible outcome later into the month, so I'd urge not to take anything seen out at yonder reaches of any main deterministic model (nor their ensembles) at face value, at least for now. Much yet to potentially unfold." 


Originally Posted by: nickl 


i still dont believe it was anything to do with ec 32 or the extended ecm.  just didnt buy that reasoning but you never know nouska.

some faraway beach
03 January 2014 23:49:24




i'm interested again. should find out over the next two runs if this is a trend that will gather support. 


Originally Posted by: nickl 


You and Darren were having a discussion about the source of the Met office references to cold later in the month - you (and I) thought it would likely be from the GloSea model. Did you see Fergieweather's comments on NW today regarding MO 30 day update.


"This prognosis into late Jan-early Feb is based on some emerging signals from UKMO modelling (i.e. contra EC32). I might be able to offer more on this for you all over next few days."


and...
"It may be a while yet before the standard NWP output (irrespective of which suite) exhibits reality of possible outcome later into the month, so I'd urge not to take anything seen out at yonder reaches of any main deterministic model (nor their ensembles) at face value, at least for now. Much yet to potentially unfold." 


Originally Posted by: nouska 


i still dont believe it was anything to do with ec 32 or the extended ecm.  just didnt buy that reasoning but you never know nouska.


Originally Posted by: nickl 


Fergusson's confirming you're correct, nickl. As he says, the emerging signals are "contra EC32", i.e. against, or contrary to, the signals in the EC32.


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.
Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.
Snowfairy
04 January 2014 00:02:05

sorry i cant add anything to this chart wise. looking like snow is on the cards! wahoo?


Whether Idle
04 January 2014 06:22:30

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=0&carte=0


 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?ech=240&code=0&carte=1&mode=1&archive=0


Morning Campers! Best output on offer this morning thus far is the far reaches of FI () from GEM which shows a build of pressure to the north and trough disruption.  The NH map shows very cold air poised to our NE.  This slow deverlopment would prime the atmosphere in Europe for a cold blast later in January as hinted at by Ian Ferguson.  ECM will be of interest.


Edit - at 168 ECM builds pressure to the south much more strongly.  As I said yesterday, NO confidence can be placed in these FI operational  developments.  I think its clearly a case of be patient and wait and see what is brought to us later in January.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=168&mode=1&map=0&archive=0


 Edit 2:


GFS at day 10:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=0   HP to our SE


ECM at day 9: HP close by


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=216&mode=1&map=0&archive=0


NB:  The inter run FI variability from ECM op is both amusing and not surprising me at the moment.  Yesterday a Scandi High, today a semi Batrlett.  Tomorrow?


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
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