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johnm1976
08 January 2014 10:54:08
The 6z is a good run IMO, slider low after slider low undercutting pressure over Scandi. What's more, a wave of strat warming (OK, yes it is minor, but that doesn't matter) which GFS has been toying with for a few runs makes a more robust appearance in FI.


soperman
08 January 2014 10:55:05



[quote=ITSY;568313]


not as quick in the transition to an Easterly on this run (at T+132 at least), but looks potentially more encouraging for further down the line with the high taking on the famous sausage like formation above lapland towards Greenland. Let's see how it evolves.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


 


Yeh not so progressive with the cold this time... The first wobble?


Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


Possibility for a prolonged cold spell looks more favourable with these charts however:


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1801.png


 


How often have we discounted a wobble in favour of longer term synoptics.  The rollercoaster begins in earnest..........enjoy

Rob K
08 January 2014 11:03:46

Yes you usually find with easterlies that once the models pick up on it they try to bring in a roaring easterly far too quickly, then on subsequent runs the start date gradually gets put back and put back until you wonder whether it will happen at all. (And sometimes it doesn't!) It can be a frustrating process chasing an easterly into the 72-96hr timescale when it keeps slipping back. But the 06Z run certainly looks good in the medium to long term.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
roger63
08 January 2014 11:04:03




[quote=ITSY;568313]


not as quick in the transition to an Easterly on this run (at T+132 at least), but looks potentially more encouraging for further down the line with the high taking on the famous sausage like formation above lapland towards Greenland. Let's see how it evolves.


Originally Posted by: soperman 


 


Yeh not so progressive with the cold this time... The first wobble?


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Possibility for a prolonged cold spell looks more favourable with these charts however:


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1801.png


 


How often have we discounted a wobble in favour of longer term synoptics.  The rollercoaster begins in earnest..........enjoy


Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


First hurdle the GFS 06h still shows Scandi HP developing by Tuesday  14th.


A rather messy slider LP on 15th/16th but by later in the week some very wintry looking charts


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=228&mode=0


From 20th onwards renewed Atlantic  push with finally the azores HP ridging NE and allowing Atlantic back round the top.


Will shortly see where this evolution sits in theENS


 

soperman
08 January 2014 11:13:08


So it looks like James Madden was finally right   He called it first! 


Originally Posted by: Essan 


 


Would like to add that Meto were pretty early on this change too, although I accept they have backtracked a little in the last few days.

Rob K
08 January 2014 11:20:28



So it looks like James Madden was finally right   He called it first! 


Originally Posted by: soperman 


 


Would like to add that Meto were pretty early on this change too, although I accept they have backtracked a little in the last few days.


Originally Posted by: Essan 


Well the latest Met Office text forecast doesn't suggest much of an easterly spell, more like an UK high pressure from the sounds of it.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
roger63
08 January 2014 11:28:56

GEFS showing a wobble at 06h.Compared to 0h, % Anticyclonic drops from 90% to 60%. at 144h and from 80 to 50 at 240h So a shortening of the potential cold spell.


It aint nailed on yet!


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 

ITSY
08 January 2014 11:43:29

Mixed ENS in the mid range, with 8 members (notably including the op and the control) below -5C uppers at T+180 for central/eastern England. 12 above that figure, with 4 members going above freezing. In other words, this cold spell is not nailed just yet - plenty of time for either improvements or backtracks.

Snowedin3
08 January 2014 11:43:37
The GFS 06z control run is very cold!!

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?ech=228&code=0&mode=1&carte= 
Dean Barnes
Finstock, Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire
160m ASL 525 Ft
roger63
08 January 2014 11:52:17


GEFS showing a wobble at 06h.Compared to 0h, % Anticyclonic drops from 90% to 60%. at 144h and from 80 to 50 at 240h So a shortening of the potential cold spell.


It aint nailed on yet!


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


Originally Posted by: roger63 

Snowedin3
08 January 2014 11:59:59
http://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?ext=1&x=478&y=6 

One word, Messy,

Although the 06z suite is hardly renowned for being reliable. We await the 12z's with caution
Dean Barnes
Finstock, Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire
160m ASL 525 Ft
cturbo20
08 January 2014 12:27:33

Looks like finally there might be an end to all this wet and windy stuff,there seems to be some exitment on here as to perhaps a cold change,will it last, time will tell,will it happen,time will tell, more importantly will i get any snow? Doubt it,but time will tell eh!.


It makes a change reading these posts when there is wind/rain as far as you can see,then all of a sudden there is a different mood in the air,i personally am fed up with our recent weather but have faired better that alot of others.


Lets hope i have copius amounts of snow but highly unlikely,will proper winter begin???

Saint Snow
08 January 2014 12:28:32

There's obviously a lot of time for this to change (and, of course, any cooler weather isn't even here yet), but what concerns me is that around the 7-10 day mark, both GFS and ECM show the AH ridging NW'wards up toward the NE USA/E Canada region. The effect is direct the resultant low spinning out of Canada in a much more northerly path. This means that as the low moves eastwards, it collapses the block into mainland Europe, putting us back to square one.


 


Like I say, very far in the distance so may well not happen like this (and the GFS in particular likes to revert to zonal type outside of the high res part) - but both the GFS and ECM showing the basic trend means it should be watched.



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Ally Pally Snowman
08 January 2014 12:46:49

http://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?ext=1&x=478&y=6

One word, Messy,

Although the 06z suite is hardly renowned for being reliable. We await the 12z's with caution

Originally Posted by: Snowedin3 



Both control and Op go cold though which is good.





Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Maunder Minimum
08 January 2014 12:49:58


There's obviously a lot of time for this to change (and, of course, any cooler weather isn't even here yet), but what concerns me is that around the 7-10 day mark, both GFS and ECM show the AH ridging NW'wards up toward the NE USA/E Canada region. The effect is direct the resultant low spinning out of Canada in a much more northerly path. This means that as the low moves eastwards, it collapses the block into mainland Europe, putting us back to square one.


 


Like I say, very far in the distance so may well not happen like this (and the GFS in particular likes to revert to zonal type outside of the high res part) - but both the GFS and ECM showing the basic trend means it should be watched.


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


Quite simply, the Polar Vortex will try to regroup itself and this winter, it is being aided by the QBO which is in a westerly phase. Therefore, the models will try to bring back zonality in low res, all other things being equal. To counter that, we need more strat warming to take place (what the experts are referring to as "wave 2 activity").


New world order coming.
roger63
08 January 2014 12:55:53

UK Outlook for Monday 13 Jan 2014 to Wednesday 22 Jan 2014:


Although showers and longer spells of rain will continue to affect the UK, conditions are not expected to be as stormy as those of recent weeks. At first, the strongest winds and heaviest rain are most likely in the west of the UK, then perhaps in the south and southwest, whilst the east will hang on to the driest weather. It will become colder, especially in the north where there is an increasing risk of snow, mainly over hills, with nearer normal temperatures at times in the south, and an increasing risk of frost, ice and fog. Later in the month changeable conditions are likely to continue, especially in the northwest, with the best of the drier weather in the east.


Updated: 1156 on Wed 8 Jan 2014


UK Outlook for Thursday 23 Jan 2014 to Thursday 6 Feb 2014:


Whilst current indications point towards changeable conditions persisting late in January, they are not expected to be as stormy as the start of the month. This would mean outbreaks of rain mainly affecting northwestern parts of the UK, spreading further southeast at times but tending to weaken. The best of the dry and brighter weather should remain in the southeast. Some periods of colder weather are likely, particularly inbetween weather systems, but overall temperatures may well remain near normal.


Updated: 1159 on Wed 8 Jan 2014


 


METO not buying next weeks cold spell except for north.


METO ditching reference  to change to colder weather in Early Feb.


Sorry to be a wet blanket!


 


 

White Meadows
08 January 2014 13:01:07
I noticed that too Roger. It leads me to think this could be building up to another classic let down 'easterly that never was'.
Ally Pally Snowman
08 January 2014 13:21:05

I noticed that too Roger. It leads me to think this could be building up to another classic let down 'easterly that never was'.

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 



Well they are certainly not confident enough to mention any cold. Which is a big worry. They're obviously going to be cautious but that updates bizarre.




Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
JACKO4EVER
08 January 2014 13:25:42


UK Outlook for Monday 13 Jan 2014 to Wednesday 22 Jan 2014:


Although showers and longer spells of rain will continue to affect the UK, conditions are not expected to be as stormy as those of recent weeks. At first, the strongest winds and heaviest rain are most likely in the west of the UK, then perhaps in the south and southwest, whilst the east will hang on to the driest weather. It will become colder, especially in the north where there is an increasing risk of snow, mainly over hills, with nearer normal temperatures at times in the south, and an increasing risk of frost, ice and fog. Later in the month changeable conditions are likely to continue, especially in the northwest, with the best of the drier weather in the east.


Updated: 1156 on Wed 8 Jan 2014


UK Outlook for Thursday 23 Jan 2014 to Thursday 6 Feb 2014:


Whilst current indications point towards changeable conditions persisting late in January, they are not expected to be as stormy as the start of the month. This would mean outbreaks of rain mainly affecting northwestern parts of the UK, spreading further southeast at times but tending to weaken. The best of the dry and brighter weather should remain in the southeast. Some periods of colder weather are likely, particularly inbetween weather systems, but overall temperatures may well remain near normal.


Updated: 1159 on Wed 8 Jan 2014


 


METO not buying next weeks cold spell except for north.


METO ditching reference  to change to colder weather in Early Feb.


Sorry to be a wet blanket!


 


 


Originally Posted by: roger63 


Seems strange with colder possibilities as below-


http://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?ext=1&x=478&y=6


Perhaps things aren't completely lost for milder weather fans? Lets hope MetO know something we don't! 

Arcus
08 January 2014 13:26:33

I noticed that too Roger. It leads me to think this could be building up to another classic let down 'easterly that never was'.

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



Well they are certainly not confident enough to mention any cold. Which is a big worry. They're obviously going to be cautious but that updates bizarre.



Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


I wouldn't call it bizarre at all. It reflects the uncertain outlook - one look through the models and ensembles, plus the hints the Pros have given on those we don't get to see, should indicate that confidence is not high enough to be talking in certain terms about much colder weather next week.


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
Gooner
08 January 2014 13:38:43


UK Outlook for Monday 13 Jan 2014 to Wednesday 22 Jan 2014:


Although showers and longer spells of rain will continue to affect the UK, conditions are not expected to be as stormy as those of recent weeks. At first, the strongest winds and heaviest rain are most likely in the west of the UK, then perhaps in the south and southwest, whilst the east will hang on to the driest weather. It will become colder, especially in the north where there is an increasing risk of snow, mainly over hills, with nearer normal temperatures at times in the south, and an increasing risk of frost, ice and fog. Later in the month changeable conditions are likely to continue, especially in the northwest, with the best of the drier weather in the east.


Updated: 1156 on Wed 8 Jan 2014


UK Outlook for Thursday 23 Jan 2014 to Thursday 6 Feb 2014:


Whilst current indications point towards changeable conditions persisting late in January, they are not expected to be as stormy as the start of the month. This would mean outbreaks of rain mainly affecting northwestern parts of the UK, spreading further southeast at times but tending to weaken. The best of the dry and brighter weather should remain in the southeast. Some periods of colder weather are likely, particularly inbetween weather systems, but overall temperatures may well remain near normal.


Updated: 1159 on Wed 8 Jan 2014


 


METO not buying next weeks cold spell except for north.


METO ditching reference  to change to colder weather in Early Feb.


Sorry to be a wet blanket!


 


 


Originally Posted by: roger63 


Should be for the media thread ..apologies , but that was probably put together before the 6z run


I'm not sure how they would ignore this


http://www.meteociel.fr/ukmo/runs/2014010800/UN144-21.GIF?08-06


I think they are waiting for the 12z's before changing the wording


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Sevendust
08 January 2014 13:39:04

The problem as I see it is that there is a tendancy to look only for the cold options amongst the data available.


With that in mind, GFS has been dismissed on a number of occasions recently as it was not going with that option.


The ensembles are where we should be looking with GFS, especially as it goes out so far.


Irrespective of where the control goes......and they have a habit of selecting outliers......there has been an increasing trend for genuinely cold members to appear in mid-term as seen on the 6z suite.


There continue to be plenty of mild members around but at least we seem to have lost the counterbalancing zonal sine wave signature where everything was generally between + & - 5'C.


Also encouraging is the lessening of precipitation spikes which surely indicates an increase in HP, likely to be a blocked continental set-up.


Given the above, what doesn't show is surface cold which is a feature of these synoptics in winter. We can only hope for a continuation of this trend and some hardening of the clustering in the ensembles.


At least something's up and it should get drier! 

some faraway beach
08 January 2014 13:41:18

If you look at the current, above-average sea-surface temperature anomalies in the direction from which an easterly would come, you can see why it wouldn't necessarily produce noteable cold in the UK, even if it did arrive.


http://weather.unisys.com/surface/sst_anom_new.gif


If an easterly were to persist, then that would eventually change, but for the foreseeable period, I can see why forecasters wouldn't shout "cold", even if they did expect the easterly to emerge.


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.
Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.
soperman
08 January 2014 13:43:39



UK Outlook for Monday 13 Jan 2014 to Wednesday 22 Jan 2014:


Although showers and longer spells of rain will continue to affect the UK, conditions are not expected to be as stormy as those of recent weeks. At first, the strongest winds and heaviest rain are most likely in the west of the UK, then perhaps in the south and southwest, whilst the east will hang on to the driest weather. It will become colder, especially in the north where there is an increasing risk of snow, mainly over hills, with nearer normal temperatures at times in the south, and an increasing risk of frost, ice and fog. Later in the month changeable conditions are likely to continue, especially in the northwest, with the best of the drier weather in the east.


Updated: 1156 on Wed 8 Jan 2014


UK Outlook for Thursday 23 Jan 2014 to Thursday 6 Feb 2014:


Whilst current indications point towards changeable conditions persisting late in January, they are not expected to be as stormy as the start of the month. This would mean outbreaks of rain mainly affecting northwestern parts of the UK, spreading further southeast at times but tending to weaken. The best of the dry and brighter weather should remain in the southeast. Some periods of colder weather are likely, particularly inbetween weather systems, but overall temperatures may well remain near normal.


Updated: 1159 on Wed 8 Jan 2014


 


METO not buying next weeks cold spell except for north.


METO ditching reference  to change to colder weather in Early Feb.


Sorry to be a wet blanket!


 


 


Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


Seems strange with colder possibilities as below-


http://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?ext=1&x=478&y=6


Perhaps things aren't completely lost for milder weather fans? Lets hope MetO know something we don't! 


Originally Posted by: roger63 


 


That's exactly what someone else posted last week when Meto suggested a significant cold spell at the end of the month.  The models now finally support this possibility only for Meto to turn turtle. 


The PV dropping into the US has been released by a weakened Jet but perhaps the extent of the PV shift is causing uncertainty with both the models and the subsequent forecasts for the next phase of Euro weather. 

Quantum
08 January 2014 13:47:14


If you look at the current, above-average sea-surface temperature anomalies in the direction from which an easterly would come, you can see why it wouldn't necessarily produce noteable cold in the UK, even if it did arrive.


http://weather.unisys.com/surface/sst_anom_new.gif


If an easterly were to persist, then that would eventually change, but for the foreseeable period, I can see why forecasters wouldn't shout "cold", even if they did expect the easterly to emerge.


Originally Posted by: some faraway beach 


Thats exactly what you want for heavy lake effect snow. It would only be a problem for immediate coasts with 850s at around -8C


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
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