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Gooner
14 January 2014 22:26:08


18Z is only slightly worse than the 12Z tbh, its just so finelly balanced it doesn't take much to push it over the other way. But tbh the odds are strongly in favour of the pest from the west winning over the beast from the east atm. ECM0Z to save the day? Perhaps, perhaps not?


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


This seems to havee been going on for days


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Quantum
14 January 2014 22:38:38



18Z is only slightly worse than the 12Z tbh, its just so finelly balanced it doesn't take much to push it over the other way. But tbh the odds are strongly in favour of the pest from the west winning over the beast from the east atm. ECM0Z to save the day? Perhaps, perhaps not?


 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


This seems to havee been going on for days


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Might be wrong here, but I try to imagine the analogy of an unstable equlibrium. In normal, perhaps zonal conditions we might be in stable equlibrium, pertabations any way don't affect the overall nature of what is going on much like a pendulum pointing down, push it either way and it doesn't go far. I would think of this as being the opposite, a pendulum directly pointing up, stable until nudged and everything just goes (right or left) ! 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Gooner
14 January 2014 22:52:21

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014011418/gfsnh-10-372.png?18


some warmth still being show later in the month


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
14 January 2014 22:57:09
Wow, ahem.

At the least it will be mild , this week and the Weekend and first 4 days of week after that the GFS and ECMWF suggest mild later, and next few days, with a short chilly interlude, UKMO is cool at 96, 120 and 144- maybe even chilly, next 72hrs mild and very wet- and Broad Forecast from ECMWF and GFS suggest next 9 days the Low a Pressure will always be in charge for West and NW Europe plus UK and NW Central N Atlantic will be dominated by Wet and Windy but not cold weather just chilly- Friday to Monday then a few days milder.
Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge. 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.
David M Porter
14 January 2014 22:57:10


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014011418/gfsnh-10-372.png?18


some warmth still being show later in the month


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


You mean to do with SSW?


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Gooner
14 January 2014 22:58:17



http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014011418/gfsnh-10-372.png?18


some warmth still being show later in the month


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


You mean to do with SSW?


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Apologies, that was a bit misleading


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Chunky Pea
14 January 2014 23:35:10


18Z is only slightly worse than the 12Z tbh


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Isn't callling something 'only slightly worse' than something preceeding it just a very polite way of saying that it's pure and utter crap?


Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
Karl Guille
15 January 2014 05:43:52
Looks like this is going to be a long drawn out process as the Atlantic is once again just too strong on the GFS 00z Op to allow an easterly to establish. The majority of the ensembles think likewise as not enough of the energy circa T120 gets drawn south-eastwards over central / south-east Europe to allow high pressure to advect westwards from Scandanavia before the Atlantic builds again! GEM and UKMO appear similar too although GEM offers another chance of undercutting further on. Will the ECM be able to retake its crown as the most bullish run on the 00z?
St. Sampson
Guernsey
nsrobins
15 January 2014 07:11:41

Will the ECM be able to retake its crown as the most bullish run on the 00z?

Originally Posted by: Karl Guille 


As in 'bullish in a china shop'?


I'm calling January now and consigning it to the scrap heap.
February, it's over to you.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Scandy 1050 MB
15 January 2014 07:19:32


Will the ECM be able to retake its crown as the most bullish run on the 00z?

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


As in 'bullish in a china shop'?


I'm calling January now and consigning it to the scrap heap.
February, it's over to you.


Originally Posted by: Karl Guille 


Yes GFS still has that strat warming at the end of the month, slim pickings currently for snow fans though. If February is as bad as January it could be an exceptionally mild winter and straight out of the bad old days of mild snowless winters. 

KevBrads1
15 January 2014 07:20:06
I'm not an expert but isn't part of the problem is that there no yellows and oranges associated with the Scandinavian high at the 500hpa level?

It doesn't look robust compared to past Scandi highs.
MANCHESTER SUMMER INDEX for 2021: 238
Timelapses, old weather forecasts and natural phenomena videos can be seen on this site
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Arcus
15 January 2014 07:21:25


Will the ECM be able to retake its crown as the most bullish run on the 00z?

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


As in 'bullish in a china shop'?


I'm calling January now and consigning it to the scrap heap.
February, it's over to you.


Originally Posted by: Karl Guille 


Looking at the ECM 0z Neil, I think it's as in 'Back in the garage with my bullish detector".


Not much change overall today, with most models appering to be gravitating to some "meh" middle ground. GEM is the joker in the pack, I suppose, in the latter stages.


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
Whether Idle
15 January 2014 07:45:48
The models ( excepting GEM FI ;-)are looking wet mild and unsettled, the GEFS point to a disturbed picture with sodden ground flooding is an issue and longer term winter 2013-14 is potentially on course to be in the very mildest category as things stand. February may yet redress the balance though...
Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Gooner
15 January 2014 08:13:47


Will the ECM be able to retake its crown as the most bullish run on the 00z?

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


As in 'bullish in a china shop'?


I'm calling January now and consigning it to the scrap heap.
February, it's over to you.


Originally Posted by: Karl Guille 


Agreed


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Maunder Minimum
15 January 2014 08:26:41

Wow, ahem.

At the least it will be mild , this week and the Weekend and first 4 days of week after that the GFS and ECMWF suggest mild later, and next few days, with a short chilly interlude, UKMO is cool at 96, 120 and 144- maybe even chilly, next 72hrs mild and very wet- and Broad Forecast from ECMWF and GFS suggest next 9 days the Low a Pressure will always be in charge for West and NW Europe plus UK and NW Central N Atlantic will be dominated by Wet and Windy but not cold weather just chilly- Friday to Monday then a few days milder.

Originally Posted by: LA2B MeridFlowEuro09 


So those of us who were derided in December for suggesting that rampant zonality would take a lot of stopping, have been proved correct.


Personally, I would much prefer to have been proved wrong, but I just felt in my bones at the time that this winter would be a complete write-off! Next winter should be better - solar activity will be declining and the QBO will be in its easterly phase, so all eyes on December 2014!


New world order coming.
The Beast from the East
15 January 2014 08:56:08

UKMO the best of the models today. ECM ens have not yet updated. Its nearly over but I'll wait till the evening for the last rites. Fat Lady putting her make up on 


Now we rely on the mythical SSW to deliver something next month


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
15 January 2014 09:08:17

EC ens have now updated and are pretty awful


Can we write off Feb as well now! LOL See you in December


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
GIBBY
15 January 2014 09:10:33

Good morning. Here is the report on this morning's output of the NWP for today Wednesday January 15th 2014 taken from http://www.norton-radstockweather.co.uk/Model-Analysis(2859336).htm


All models show Low pressure over the Atlantic gradually drifting in closer to the UK over the next day or two. As a result today's mild and damp conditions will change to somewhat cooler and more showery conditions from the West from later today. The showers will be heavy in places and focused most on the South and west of the UK with some Northern and Eastern areas seeing a fair amount of dry weather. By Saturday Low pressure remains close to the West of the UK with a new frontal feature moving NNE across the UK with further heavy rain likely over England and parts of Wales with Sunday too seeing further unsettled weather for all in light winds and temperatures near to or just a little below average as Low pressure fills and slides SE.


GFS then shows new Low pressure areas crossing East to the North of the UK through next week, each dragging troughs East across Britain continuing to bring rain and showers at times in basically Westerly winds with temperatures quite close to the seasonal average.


The GFS Ensembles show little evidence of any significant change in the unsettled pattern this morning under temperatures largely close to average. There may be some cooler and blustery intervals in showery NW winds but no substantial cold events look likely.


UKMO shows a weak ridge across the UK with the UK itself in a 'col' type situation where almost anything goes but the most likely event will see a rather cold and dry interlude with a night frost but a dry bright day perhaps with a shower, wintry on hills.


GEM shows the unsettled weather giving way from the North to a colder Easterly flow next week with some wintry showers in the East and South with frost developing at night especially in the clearer North.


NAVGEM shows Low pressure up to the NW of the UK by midweek with a broad Westerly flow. The unsettled weather of early in the week will be superseded by the effects of fresher Atlantic winds and further rain bearing troughs crossing East over all areas as Low pressure maintains the upper hand as far as the UK is concerned.


ECM this morning keeps very unsettled weather going with deep Low pressure areas continuing to affect all areas of the UK throughout the week with spells of rain, heavy at times accompanied by strong Westerly winds at times too. On the plus side temperatures do not look like being far from the January average.


The ECM 9 and 10 Day Mean Charts today show a bias favouring a trough down the North Sea connected to Low pressure most likely towards the NW of the UK. This as of the last few outputs closes the door on any cold from the East and most likely maintains the unsettled theme across the UK with rain at times in average temperatures and Westerly winds.


The Jet Stream continues to blow across the Atlantic, turning Southeast to the South of the UK and then over Southern Europe. This pattern is maintained into the start of next week. Later next week the flow looks like strengthening again and piling East across the Atlantic and across the UK.


In Summary the weather remains very unsettled over the next two weeks with Low pressure never straying far from the UK shores throughout the period. The thrust of energy from these Lows is SE'wards for the next 5-6 days before the thrust then looks more East to the North of Scotland next week with an increase of Westerly winds likely at times, giving rise to somewhat more mobility allowing systems to pass through more quickly with time though still with only short drier spells in between. There is nothing again to suggest any change to colder conditions of note anytime soon from this morning's output with the glimmer of hope from the GEM operational looking the only straw to clutch this morning.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
roger63
15 January 2014 09:12:03

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?nh=0&ech=60&carte=1021


Meto has the Scandi HP by 60h so confidence on step 1


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?nh=0&ech=96&carte=1021


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?nh=0&ech=120&carte=1021


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?nh=0&ech=144&carte=1021


Thr tricky bit is getting an easterly in None of the other models achivieve thsi and even GEFS 120- 144 barely  has any ENS succeeding.


So Meto leads the pack.At 144h it looks as though the approaching LP will bring back full zonality unless it becomes a slider? 

soperman
15 January 2014 09:26:18

Uncle Bartie makes an attempt!!

David M Porter
15 January 2014 09:26:50


EC ens have now updated and are pretty awful


Can we write off Feb as well now! LOL See you in December


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


It would be daft at the very least to write off February at this time- it doesn't even start for another two-and-a-half weeks!


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
johnm1976
15 January 2014 10:04:14


UKMO the best of the models today. ECM ens have not yet updated. Its nearly over but I'll wait till the evening for the last rites. Fat Lady putting her make up on 


Now we rely on the mythical SSW to deliver something next month


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


The mythical SSW is a consistent feature of GFS, moving closer to the reliable and the strongest of the winter. It's also, setting aside the usual nuances and caveats of weather prediction, positioned nicely to weaken or reverse the zonal flow right over Western Europe.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=312&mode=10&carte=1


If it verifies. Let's see what the 6Z brings.


So the fat lady should put away her song sheet for now - February has often been our coldest winter month...

15 January 2014 10:29:24
Hi all, can someone direct me to a website that explains what things like:
Outliers
Slack air
Sliders
And other such descriptions/nuances mean??
Thanks in advance!
VSC
sriram
15 January 2014 10:40:12
Write off winter continues
Sriram
Sedgley, West Midlands ( just south of Wolverhampton )
162m ASL
johnm1976
15 January 2014 10:52:51
Well, the 6z puts us in a slack SE flow after about t+80 and finishes on a "cool" note in the reliable timeframe.

A bit of WAA over the eastern seaboard might make me believe it could last, but as it is FI brings in a strong jet going right over us and zonal flow.

I think GFS tends to amplify this, so wouldn;t surprise me if we see a change, or a different solution from the other models.
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