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Arbroath 1320
15 January 2014 22:44:49


Lol you couldn't make it up. 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pK3d2Pk0Zk


And I notice the lows to the west of greeland are pretty weak on the 18Z, with HP over greenland and a southerly jet stream we may just need to be patient. 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


A better run for sure

Originally Posted by: Quantum 



By 168 on the 18z the Atlantic is starting to break through around our shores but interestingly there's far less energy going North. Having been pretty convinced earlier in the week of another period of Atlantic dominance, I detect a possible flip from the models over the next day or so. The first shot of an Easterly we get is ~120. If that fails, there may be further opportunities based on the 18z. Forget FI in this set up as you would be as well predicting the output in Jan 15.
GGTTH
Karl Guille
15 January 2014 23:26:08

So very near on this run and very little more required to establish an easterly flow of sorts. Not sure what would become of things thereafter but fascinating model watching nonetheless.

Originally Posted by: Caz 


Karl, it's that time of year again when we're both looking for a bit of birthday snow.    Though the current runs aren't looking too promising but fingers crossed.

Originally Posted by: Karl Guille 



Ha, can't believe another year has passed already! Last time I was teased and left with nothing so a last minute sneaky easterly will do me this time round! 😉

St. Sampson
Guernsey
Arbroath 1320
15 January 2014 23:39:52
Here's the 120 fax tonight:

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?ech=120&carte=2000 

Illustrates the potential for an Easterly. Low pressure over the continent, High pressure to the NE and an Atlantic low approaching us from the NW which according to the the UKMO 12z 144 chart, is about to slide SE.


GGTTH
LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
15 January 2014 23:42:44
The Bracknell fax charts at T96 and at T120 have the Very Slowly slow moving Scandy High, While The Atlantic PV Low dominates and affects all other Areas, and to the South of that are Strong holding Mid Lat High Both Mid N Atlantic's Southwest and the East side.

These also affect Far South Europe from SW all the way to the East.

Low Pressures in West Central N and NW plus the W Central Europe more potent assisted by a Strong Jet Stream.

In my experiences often the 06z and the 18z GFS and at times also the other two GFS daily runs as well as ECMWF show variant signs and they bring in Zonal West to East flows but at times they chop and change, some times the High Pressure is positioned where it does give a bit of optimism, but looking at it the places that get the Colder weather as far as hoping or wishing it affects us here - unfortunately the either It passes to our East Or NE or the NW Atlantic PV just breaks back in and thus it really is quite just depends on what the average results and outcomes we get affect the outcome.

At the moment no one can say with any idea what is up with the T120 and T144hrs time period, the 48 to 72hrs and the 96 to T120 hours charts are the furthest we are currently seeing with any hope of finding some I really of what they are offering for the UK- the a Models may be should get better in our Winter Forecast- as for the Model Output talking and my experiences- well I see loads of times of Outcomes being just wasted or on very special instances we in some years see really proper winter weather- at the Moment I am not at all happy that this winter has not been much use to us here, same for the Outside Environment in various aspects.

Given having seen lots of Rainy and Wet weather I can only hope that this winter can surprise us and just get the busy Atlantic PV Low's to some extent change intensity and W-E moving mode to just take a different course- it will be nice if the Climate changed but we really have lots of Climate change factors to respect for- that has to have it's place here in the Model Output Discussion- our Winter weather seems and is really just the same most often and for much duration as well so I cannot see any need to get to even stand up to just looking at very brief spells in the winters we get that last long but aren't much to write home about not many are into MO discussions in the UK unless if I am talking about some and many of the well spaced out cold and wintry winter weather episodes- it is often mild and wet so wasting a lot of time here does not change our climate we get from the Atlantic what we are doing as a world to it, Global Warming is top of the Issue list that is a good talking point!.

Good luck all, I will try to carry on being a sensational I putter but I really think that for me it is important to lay up some foundations here which give a very more impressionable sense and this should enable those people to stand up for what they like but in real life what is going on will have a big effect on the durability of our conscience and well being.
Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge. 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.
Gooner
15 January 2014 23:47:34

Here's the 120 fax tonight:

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?ech=120&carte=2000

Illustrates the potential for an Easterly. Low pressure over the continent, High pressure to the NE and an Atlantic low approaching us from the NW which according to the the UKMO 12z 144 chart, is about to slide SE.

Originally Posted by: Arbroath 1320 


Watching the Beeb forecast is interesting, shows the Easterly winds very very slowing inchng across the N Sea , just clipping NE England


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Arbroath 1320
15 January 2014 23:56:18


In the current set up Gooner I think it pays to focus on the UKMO and fax charts. The MET is usually the best at handling Scandi High set ups which can often be difficult for the models to deal with, hence the swings run to run in recent days.
GGTTH
Gooner
16 January 2014 00:52:42

http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/charts/gefs/gefsens850London0.png


bit of a dip from 19th to 21st after that who knows


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


JACKO4EVER
16 January 2014 01:28:56

http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/charts/gefs/gefsens850London0.png


bit of a dip from 19th to 21st after that who knows

Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Fairly big scatter from 22nd, some mild and cooler options available, still most of the action though in FI for coldies . Until this inches into the reliable timeframe then the form horse for me is the Atlantic

lezrob
16 January 2014 05:34:04
http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?ech=384&code=0&mode=0 
hmmm, that's a big surprise!
Been lurking for 7 years... Still know nothing.. Weather fascinates..
Banbury Oxon
Richard K
16 January 2014 07:12:08

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?ech=384&code=0&mode=0
hmmm, that's a big surprise!

Originally Posted by: lezrob 


It's at the lower edge of the ensembles but it is not without company.


Saffron Walden, NW Essex, approx 70m above sea level (when the tide is out)
Richard K
16 January 2014 07:16:22
Sorry to use the 's' word, but the sudden descent of the LP southwards through from scandanavia to south of the UK in FI seems linked to an expected stratospheric warming centred close to the UK
http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?ech=384&code=0&mode=10 
Saffron Walden, NW Essex, approx 70m above sea level (when the tide is out)
Gooner
16 January 2014 07:30:05

Interesting output this morning


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Rob K
16 January 2014 08:02:31
Rather 2010-ish FI from GFS (in a watered down form) but also some cold solutions cropping up in the mid term on the 00z ensembles.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png 
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
The Beast from the East
16 January 2014 08:32:31


Interesting output this morning


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


 


Its always a good sign when UKMET is leading the cold charge.


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Sevendust
16 January 2014 08:40:52



Interesting output this morning


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Its always a good sign when UKMET is leading the cold charge.


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


The meto T120 fax is where you should be looking in conjunction with the ensembles.


The presence of that HP to the NE has been a consistent theme and we are now seeing some undercutting at that range


Having said that, its still not overly cold but there is some potential


The GFS ensembles, although not too exciting, are a tad colder in mid-term with the odd bitter run 

sriram
16 January 2014 08:42:20
It's all very well having that cold air to our NE - but we just can't tap into it !
Sriram
Sedgley, West Midlands ( just south of Wolverhampton )
162m ASL
Andy Woodcock
16 January 2014 08:46:40
I see little of interest this morning.

A weak easterly flow might affect Newcastle for 20 minutes next week but apart from that the output is pants.

ECM FI is horrible and not to be looked at over breakfast.

Mind you it's all better than this time last year when Penrith was the only town in the uk where it wasn't snowing!

Fed up with this miserable weather so feeling grumpy this morning.

Andy
Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
GIBBY
16 January 2014 08:51:55

Good morning everyone. Here is the first of my twice daily reports on the current state of the outputs from the NWP for today Thursday January 16th 2014 taken from http://www.norton-radstockweather.co.uk/Model-Analysis(2859336).htm


All models show the UK under the influence of a large depression to the west of the UK with a showery SSW flow across the UK, not very strong but providing the catalyst for a lot of heavy showers across Southern and Western Britain with far fewer elsewhere. This pattern remains in place for the next 24-36 hours with the showers if anything becoming more frequent and widespread as Low pressure draws into UK air space. On Saturday a new Low will push rain North across the UK and this could prove quite persistent and heavy in places before clearing to showers on Sunday. By Monday pressure will have slackened across the UK and while still quite Low with light winds the day could well end up dry for many and rather chilly with some frost and freezing fog patches possible in places. By Tuesday the next Low pressure will be knocking on the door of western Britain with strengthening winds and rain by Tuesday.


GFS shows this Low moving ESE over the North sea and Europe turning winds towards the North for a time soon after midweek with a drier period developing with night frosts next weekend. this doesn't last long though before a rinse and repeat pattern of what's gone before develops with some wintry showers on the Western flank of the exiting Low in generally cold conditions at the end of the run before winds swing Easterly at the end of the run giving some sleet or snow over Southern and Eastern Britain.


The GFS Ensembles show the pattern that we currently have seen of late generally maintained with the added conditions of somewhat colder conditions at times as Low pressure cross ESE down the north Sea giving the UK something of a swipe at colder NW winds on the rear f departing depressions. The operationals wintry end to it's run was not well supported with most members keeping a much more moderate reduction in overall temperatures values and with the incidence of rain still all too frequent.


UKMO this morning closes it's morning run next Wednesday with a shallow Low pressure near SW England moving SE. An area of rain will be lying across the UK in association with this and this could well result in some snowfall in the North and East as colder air is drawn in from Europe undercutting the feature.


GEM shows Low pressure slipping down over the UK later next week as a much deeper feature than UKMO and as a result bringing yet another spell of wind and rain followed by showers across all districts with little respite beyond a window of drier weather shown on Day 10.


NAVGEM is broadly similar in format to GEM with a belt of Low pressure down the North Sea at the end of the run with a chilly and showery NW feed across the UK.


ECM follows the general trend of this new Low pressure feeding SE later next week with rain and showers in tow for all before it clears away to the SE allowing a temporary cold incursion of air on a ridge of High pressure to make it's presence felt later with frost and fog patches before further Atlantic fronts move in again from the NW by Day 10.


The ECM 9 and 10 Day Charts this morning reveal the status-quo persists from earlier versions of these charts in that the favoured option between members of it's ensemble group show a trough down across the North sea with the UK lying in a West or NW flow between Low pressure to the NW and High over the Azores. One can deduce from this that the current changeable pattern persists over the UK.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2161.gif
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2401.gif


The Jet Stream forecast this morning shows the flow largely maintaining it's current pattern for the reliable future with longer term indications suggesting no meaningful change other than a short migration NE of the flow further across Northern Britain for a time later next week before resetting back further South later.


In Summary this morning we have little overall change in the pattern of unsettled weather under a UK trough. With cold air to the NE we have to be mindful of what could happen if the synoptic pattern falls our way and UKMO shows some degree of that this morning giving an interesting chart for next Wednesday which with a few tweaks could be a good chart for coldies. however, the general consensus remains that the underlying feeling remains for the cold to stay the other side of the North Sea while we continue to suffer from troughs of Low pressure running in off the Atlantic with rain and showers and occasional hill snow largely in the North at times with short transitory colder interludes with frost.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Polar Low
16 January 2014 08:52:51

Thanks Martin

Polar Low
16 January 2014 08:57:00

quite a few of those members look much better than the opp  Andy even in the short term


http://www.ecmwf.int/samples/d/inspect/teasers/samplers/banner/mean_sea_level_pressure_and_temperature_at_850hpa!120!pop!od!enfo!enplot!2014011600!!/


 


 


 


 


I see little of interest this morning.

A weak easterly flow might affect Newcastle for 20 minutes next week but apart from that the output is pants.

ECM FI is horrible and not to be looked at over breakfast.

Mind you it's all better than this time last year when Penrith was the only town in the uk where it wasn't snowing!

Fed up with this miserable weather so feeling grumpy this morning.

Andy

Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 

Gooner
16 January 2014 08:58:10

I see little of interest this morning.

A weak easterly flow might affect Newcastle for 20 minutes next week but apart from that the output is pants.

ECM FI is horrible and not to be looked at over breakfast.

Mind you it's all better than this time last year when Penrith was the only town in the uk where it wasn't snowing!

Fed up with this miserable weather so feeling grumpy this morning.

Andy

Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


Makes a change


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


roger63
16 January 2014 09:10:59

I see little of interest this morning.

A weak easterly flow might affect Newcastle for 20 minutes next week but apart from that the output is pants.

ECM FI is horrible and not to be looked at over breakfast.

Mind you it's all better than this time last year when Penrith was the only town in the uk where it wasn't snowing!

Fed up with this miserable weather so feeling grumpy this morning.

Andy

Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?ech=84&carte=2000


The 84h fax is encouraging showing an occlusion moving west with an easterly flow behind.


Meto at 92h shows easterly flow making progress but then defeat is snatched from the jwas of victory at 144h.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?nh=0&ech=96&carte=1021


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?nh=0&ech=144&carte=1021


 


The other models have some short term  encouragemnt with sliding LP's being more of a feature. However there is no decisve breakout for the easterly flow,with   the majority of GFS ENS staying zonal.However the pendulum has swung a liitle in favour  of the easterly with the period from 96h to 168  still offering opportunity.

Polar Low
16 January 2014 09:23:38

intresting also the ecm mean looks better than its opp with a lobe of heights as we look above at that latter time frame


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=144&mode=1&map=1&type=1


 



I see little of interest this morning.

A weak easterly flow might affect Newcastle for 20 minutes next week but apart from that the output is pants.

ECM FI is horrible and not to be looked at over breakfast.

Mind you it's all better than this time last year when Penrith was the only town in the uk where it wasn't snowing!

Fed up with this miserable weather so feeling grumpy this morning.

Andy

Originally Posted by: roger63 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?ech=84&carte=2000


The 84h fax is encouraging showing an occlusion moving west with an easterly flow behind.


Meto at 92h shows easterly flow making progress but then defeat is snatched from the jwas of victory at 144h.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?nh=0&ech=96&carte=1021


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?nh=0&ech=144&carte=1021


 


The other models have some short term  encouragemnt with sliding LP's being more of a feature. However there is no decisve breakout for the easterly flow,with   the majority of GFS ENS staying zonal.However the pendulum has swung a liitle in favour  of the easterly with the period from 96h to 168  still offering opportunity.


Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 

DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
16 January 2014 09:45:32


 


The other models have some short term  encouragemnt with sliding LP's being more of a feature. However there is no decisve breakout for the easterly flow,with   the majority of GFS ENS staying zonal.However the pendulum has swung a liitle in favour  of the easterly with the period from 96h to 168  still offering opportunity.


Originally Posted by: roger63 


It's the breakout that isn't happening. All that lovely pent-up cold air over western Russia being blocked by a Scandi High, instead of the said high encouraging the cold air t stream out westwards. An 'Evil Scandi'?


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
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