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Quantum
  • Quantum
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
05 February 2014 19:55:15

http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20140205/12/102/h850t850eu.png


Is this close to a record? 


I would be interested to know what the lowest 850hpa temp is from a variety of sources, from a canadian source -6C is pretty extrodinary, and I wouldn't be suprised if we get to -7C somewhere (easily cold enough for snow by the way for lucky westerners) 


I think the lowest ever 850hpa temp to hit the UK must be around -20C in january 1987. In a northerly the lowest 850hpa temp is probably getting on for -18C in shetland or the western isles.


 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
SEMerc
05 February 2014 19:58:13

I assume you're referring to the -5 stretching across the Atlantic?

Quantum
  • Quantum
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
05 February 2014 20:35:15


I assume you're referring to the -5 stretching across the Atlantic?


Originally Posted by: SEMerc 


Not really, I have seen that happen in mega siberian blocks in the north; I am more refering to the -5C isotherm getting from a canadian or american source to the UK. 


A figure of -6C or -7C is very unusual for a westerly source, so I am wondering if it is a record. Note anything from the arctic (even if it is on a westerly or SWerly) doesn't count, it has to originate from the american continent. I see two major barriors against this ever happening:


1) The atlantic very quickly moderates any cold air, despite the source being exceptionally cold (sometimes as low as -35C) even at the 850hpa level


2) Cold air crossing the atlantic is ascociated with cyclonic activity, so it is very hard to get a direct feed without the air being wrapped around lows and being forced over even more atlantic before it arrives in the UK; contrast this to a siberian esterly which, though unusual, can be direct.


 


 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Andy Woodcock
05 February 2014 22:13:47
January 1984 brought -7c uppers to Cumbria for nearly two weeks and my did it snow!

The source was around Baffin Island so not strictly Canadian but close

Andy
Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
Quantum
  • Quantum
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
05 February 2014 22:31:40

January 1984 brought -7c uppers to Cumbria for nearly two weeks and my did it snow! The source was around Baffin Island so not strictly Canadian but close Andy

Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


Definately close :)


but baffin island is within the arctic circle, so can't techincally be counted. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
picturesareme
06 February 2014 23:22:38


January 1984 brought -7c uppers to Cumbria for nearly two weeks and my did it snow! The source was around Baffin Island so not strictly Canadian but close Andy

Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Definately close :)


but baffin island is within the arctic circle, so can't techincally be counted. 


Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


 


The problem though Quantum is you stated canada or the U.S, and at least a 3rd of Canada is Arctic with more of it being Sub Arctic.

Quantum
  • Quantum
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
06 February 2014 23:33:16



January 1984 brought -7c uppers to Cumbria for nearly two weeks and my did it snow! The source was around Baffin Island so not strictly Canadian but close Andy

Originally Posted by: picturesareme 


Definately close :)


but baffin island is within the arctic circle, so can't techincally be counted. 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


 


The problem though Quantum is you stated canada or the U.S, and at least a 3rd of Canada is Arctic with more of it being Sub Arctic.


Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


Specifically I'm talking about air that leaves canada or the US from somewhere south of the arctic circle, i.e a westerly airmass rather than something from the arctic. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
picturesareme
06 February 2014 23:45:29




January 1984 brought -7c uppers to Cumbria for nearly two weeks and my did it snow! The source was around Baffin Island so not strictly Canadian but close Andy

Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Definately close :)


but baffin island is within the arctic circle, so can't techincally be counted. 


Originally Posted by: picturesareme 


 


The problem though Quantum is you stated canada or the U.S, and at least a 3rd of Canada is Arctic with more of it being Sub Arctic.


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Specifically I'm talking about air that leaves canada or the US from somewhere south of the arctic circle, i.e a westerly airmass rather than something from the arctic. 


Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


i understand you, however that link at the top shows the -20 and below coming out of arctic and sub arctic canada, not regular continental canada.


http://www.cabrillo.edu/~crsmith/subarctic.gif


 


this map shows canadian sub arctic.


 

Quantum
  • Quantum
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
07 February 2014 00:05:27





January 1984 brought -7c uppers to Cumbria for nearly two weeks and my did it snow! The source was around Baffin Island so not strictly Canadian but close Andy

Originally Posted by: picturesareme 


Definately close :)


but baffin island is within the arctic circle, so can't techincally be counted. 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


 


The problem though Quantum is you stated canada or the U.S, and at least a 3rd of Canada is Arctic with more of it being Sub Arctic.


Originally Posted by: picturesareme 


Specifically I'm talking about air that leaves canada or the US from somewhere south of the arctic circle, i.e a westerly airmass rather than something from the arctic. 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


i understand you, however that link at the top shows the -20 and below coming out of arctic and sub arctic canada, not regular continental canada.


http://www.cabrillo.edu/~crsmith/subarctic.gif


 


this map shows canadian sub arctic.


 


Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


Sure, thats fine. I'm taking about cold air coming from that airmass over canada, rather than from a nearer arctic source which are quite different. mP north westerlies can produce really cold air, but a feed from the canadian sub arctic almost never does.


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
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