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sriram
  • sriram
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
13 February 2014 14:11:36
Summer 2014 will have heatwaves and be very dry

Reasoning - this winter has been very wet and low pressure dominated

The weather is an equilibrium system and dries to balance out - this is the reasoning

Just as we get a cycle of cold winters and mild winters along with cool summers and hot summers - the system tries to balance out

Indeed you need look further than last year where the first 6 months were cold or cool with that record cold March to add - followed by a heatwave July and above temps for the rest of the year to balance out

For those who have a knowledge of chemistry - there is something called Le Chateliers principle used in reversible chemical reactions which states that if a chemical reaction is driven forward in one direction, the system tries to drive the reaction the opposite way in order to reach a state of equilibrium

I believe the weather is the same - it does have a high degree of entropy - disorder - but does adhere to this principle - whether looking at weather patterns in a shorttimeframe or a large timeframe
Sriram
Sedgley, West Midlands ( just south of Wolverhampton )
162m ASL
idj20
13 February 2014 14:35:13

The thing with last year that it involved a blocked pattern with high pressure often to the west or north of the UK and it is that which effectively caused winter cold to "extend" well into Spring. Indeed while Southern and Western side of the UK did get to enjoy a decent summer, it took ages for it to get going over the eastern side due to a "prevailing" north east wind. As a result, it never really got properly warm over that side of the country (including Kent, of course) so it ended up as being a "faux" summer with our "home grown" heat - at least it is in my eyes. I remember being unable to sit in the garden without getting covered with goosepimples until late July!
  A PROPER summer is where high pressure often keep branching in from the Azores or being anchored off to the E or SE of the UK so we have wind coming in from the near continent = blazing sun and real heat over more of the country.
  But I can see where you are getting at as I can remember how January and February 1990 went along on a very wet and stormy note (including that St Burns Day storm) and that did lead to a impressive summer with 25 C and above recorded somewhere over the UK for weeks at a time - including a 36 C at the start of August.

But at the end of the day, to be honest, no two years are exactly alike as far as our UK climate is concerned. It'll continue to astound, disappoint, please and sometimes terrify us no matter how we analyze it.


Folkestone Harbour. 
vince
13 February 2014 14:41:45
Bring it on 100f will suffice
Russwirral
13 February 2014 14:43:54

Summer 2014 will have heatwaves and be very dry

Reasoning - this winter has been very wet and low pressure dominated

The weather is an equilibrium system and dries to balance out - this is the reasoning

Just as we get a cycle of cold winters and mild winters along with cool summers and hot summers - the system tries to balance out

Indeed you need look further than last year where the first 6 months were cold or cool with that record cold March to add - followed by a heatwave July and above temps for the rest of the year to balance out

For those who have a knowledge of chemistry - there is something called Le Chateliers principle used in reversible chemical reactions which states that if a chemical reaction is driven forward in one direction, the system tries to drive the reaction the opposite way in order to reach a state of equilibrium

I believe the weather is the same - it does have a high degree of entropy - disorder - but does adhere to this principle - whether looking at weather patterns in a shorttimeframe or a large timeframe

Originally Posted by: sriram 


 


I would love to agree with you - but the weather can be a bit fickle.


we may end up with a very dry and cold Autumn.  Or a dry and cold winter... or indeed a dry and cold Summer.  there are lots of patterns that could end up balancing out the wet weather weve had.  But usually that balancing out tends to be over a long period of time. 


Infact what weve seen this year may be the balancing out over previous weather weve had.  Ie we have seen lower than average winter storms these past few years.  perhaps this was catchup in some way.


 


I do believe all weather types play a part in the environment we live in - whether we love them or hate them  they all have a purpose or important impact.


 


ie the flood waters allow seeds to travel to new places, allow certain flora and fauna to be controlled either by helping or discouraging growth.


Frosts help break up the soil


Wind encourages seed distribution, clears out unhealthy trees/branches


 


 


Hopefully the floods and high water table will start to receed soon as trees begin to wake up from their winter slumber.  That should suck up alot of the excess water as we enter March/April.


  


Saint Snow
13 February 2014 14:51:44

But why should the terms of this mythical equilibrium dictate that the reverse of the wet wweather we've had will occur in summer?


We could have a 12 month wet period, taking us through to December 2014, followed by 12 months of drought.


So nerr.


 




Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
KevBrads1
13 February 2014 15:34:52

Summer 2014 will have heatwaves and be very dry

Reasoning - this winter has been very wet and low pressure dominated

The weather is an equilibrium system and dries to balance out - this is the reasoning

Just as we get a cycle of cold winters and mild winters along with cool summers and hot summers - the system tries to balance out

Indeed you need look further than last year where the first 6 months were cold or cool with that record cold March to add - followed by a heatwave July and above temps for the rest of the year to balance out

Originally Posted by: sriram 



I'm afraid Mother Nature is not an auditor. There is no one up there with a balance sheet. The weather will do what it will do. I've said this many a time but what balances what out?



MANCHESTER SUMMER INDEX for 2021: 238
Timelapses, old weather forecasts and natural phenomena videos can be seen on this site
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgrSD1BwFz2feWDTydhpEhQ/playlists
Sevendust
13 February 2014 16:11:13

No idea about this summer and given recent extremes I don't think anyone has a handle on it

Retron
13 February 2014 16:34:34

Hopefully it'll be a nice cool summer - with plenty of cloud around to stop things heating up too much.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a somewhat colder than usual summer simply due to all that moisture around; assuming we get a normal spring rain-wise there will still be plenty of surface moisture even into June. And that'll take energy to evaporate, energy which would otherwise be heating the ground (and hence the air, by radiation).



Of course, nobody can tell what summer will bring at this stage... could be anything!


Leysdown, north Kent
idj20
13 February 2014 17:10:59


Hopefully it'll be a nice cool summer - with plenty of cloud around to stop things heating up too much.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a somewhat colder than usual summer simply due to all that moisture around; assuming we get a normal spring rain-wise there will still be plenty of surface moisture even into June. And that'll take energy to evaporate, energy which would otherwise be heating the ground (and hence the air, by radiation).



Of course, nobody can tell what summer will bring at this stage... could be anything!


Originally Posted by: Retron 



IF our weather then does settle down by April and May, imagine all the low lying mistiness photography opportunities what with all that ground moisture.


Folkestone Harbour. 
KevBrads1
13 February 2014 17:18:20
Isn't one of the conditions for recording high temperatures in the UK is soil moisture?

Given how high the water table is now, soil moisture is saturated now. It is going to take a dry spring for soil moisture to dry out otherwise we are not going to see the dizzy heights of July 2006, August 2003, August 1990, maxima temperature wise, I would have thought.

If you note those hot spells were preceded by dry springs and or dry winters. 1989-90 was a very wet winter but the spring was exceptionally dry. 2003 was a dry spring.

2006 was a dry winter following a dryish year overall of 2005 and the previous winter was dry.
MANCHESTER SUMMER INDEX for 2021: 238
Timelapses, old weather forecasts and natural phenomena videos can be seen on this site
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgrSD1BwFz2feWDTydhpEhQ/playlists
Osprey
13 February 2014 17:24:18


Hopefully it'll be a nice cool summer - with plenty of cloud around to stop things heating up too much.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a somewhat colder than usual summer simply due to all that moisture around; assuming we get a normal spring rain-wise there will still be plenty of surface moisture even into June. And that'll take energy to evaporate, energy which would otherwise be heating the ground (and hence the air, by radiation).



Of course, nobody can tell what summer will bring at this stage... could be anything!


Originally Posted by: Retron 


If temps ever get high it will be steaming and humid just as you like it not


Nobody likes a smartass, especially another smartass...
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
vince
13 February 2014 17:27:26
Actually revisiting this thread I will agree with ....wait for it Retron (Darren) too old for too much heat so let's say sunny and 24 degrees for 12 weeks
And dewpoints around 13 degrees
Brendon Hills Bandit
13 February 2014 18:55:00
Ladies & Gentlemen, it may be that we are entering unknown territory, in terms of weather systems, both global and local, what with global warming and it's myriad of effects on an already exceptionally complex world of weather.
220m asl, edge of Brendon Hills
some faraway beach
13 February 2014 20:01:04

I think the idea that a wet winter will be balanced out by a dry summer sounds dangerously close to believing in the "law of averages".


The global weather systems clearly do have negative feedbacks which "balance out". Otherwise certain areas of the planet would at some stage have become permanently icebound, for instance. But there are so many factors influencing the weather, via so many complex interactions, that some of these negative feedbacks can take millions of years to "balance out", never mind 12 months (e.g. look at how many interglacials our current ice age has experienced over millions of years, yet we are still stuck in it, with ice covering both Poles).


To demonstrate the fallacy of the law of averages, toss a coin half a dozen times. If you got a sequence of heads tails heads tails heads tails, that would feel perfectly normal, while a sequence of 6 heads or 6 tails in a row would give rise to suspicions of the coin having been rigged. Yet the chance of HTHTHT is exactly the same as HHHHHH or TTTTTT. You need a lot more evidence before you could start believing there might be a problem with the coin.


And I think this is relevant when considering our current winter.  Suddenly getting three wet months in a row in one UK winter doesn't suggest to me that our climate has changed. If the same thing happened every year for the next decade, I'd be interested, but until then it's just weather as far as I can see.


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.
Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.
Dougie
13 February 2014 20:10:52

Actually revisiting this thread I will agree with ....wait for it Retron (Darren) too old for too much heat so let's say sunny and 24 degrees for 12 weeks
And dewpoints around 13 degrees

Originally Posted by: vince 


If I could choose, I would take that.


Ha'way the lads
SEMerc
13 February 2014 20:19:42

I have a hunch that whether the summer is hot or pi$$poor climate change will be invoked.

Gooner
13 February 2014 20:42:40

Hopefully Winter will start for proper in October and go through until April


As severe as it can possibly be


 


Just a hunch


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Bob G
13 February 2014 21:38:37



I'm afraid Mother Nature is not an auditor. There is no one up there with a balance sheet. The weather will do what it will do. I've said this many a time but what balances what out?

Originally Posted by: KevBrads1 


The only thing that balances things out is time, and we are talking long periods, not a few weeks/months.

Jive Buddy
13 February 2014 22:07:31

I think we'll see a lot more of those quasimodo-stationary type fronts, complete with bent back occlusions.....just a hunch.


It's not over, until the fat Scandy sinks.....

Location: St. Mary Cray, S.E. London border with Kent.
richardabdn
13 February 2014 22:20:01

Wouldn't surprise me in the least if it's another washout summer.


The two wettest January/February combinations on record here were 1994 and 1883. Summer 1994 was very dry and summer 1883 very wet.


Hopefully it will turn out more like 1994 when there was 270mm of rain during January and February then only 265mm between March and September


 


Aberdeen: The only place that misses out on everything


2023 - The Year that's Constantly Worse than a Bad November
2024 - 2023 without the Good Bits
SydneyonTees
13 February 2014 22:39:09

This pretty much what we are going through in Australia now.


We had an exceptionally wet La Nina period with some record rainfall totals around a wide area of Australia, rivers flooding that hadn't done for years and some dam gates opening for the first time since they were built!


Now we have had a combination of one of the driest spring / summers on record and everything has dried out. The rivers that were in flood have stopped flowing in some areas. The dams are still healthy enough though.


So we have gone from floods to dry in quick time here, but that is the nature of Australia, it usually is droughts or flooding rains.

Rob K
14 February 2014 14:01:08


No idea about this summer and given recent extremes I don't think anyone has a handle on it


Originally Posted by: Sevendust 


We hear a lot about extremes becoming more common, and while the last five years have given us lots of extreme wet, extreme cold and extreme wind, we haven't had much extreme heat (since 2003 and 2006, in fact).


Come on climate change, give us the one extreme I really want... 40C!


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Dougie
14 February 2014 15:21:28



No idea about this summer and given recent extremes I don't think anyone has a handle on it


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


We hear a lot about extremes becoming more common, and while the last five years have given us lots of extreme wet, extreme cold and extreme wind, we haven't had much extreme heat (since 2003 and 2006, in fact).


Come on climate change, give us the one extreme I really want... 40C!


Originally Posted by: Sevendust 


-40°c, now that would be an event.


 


Ha'way the lads
Rob K
14 February 2014 15:30:53


-40°c, now that would be an event.


 


Originally Posted by: Dougie 


-4°c would be headline news this winter!


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Charmhills
14 February 2014 16:37:58

A nice warm summer with some Davey type storms with a touch of Duanesque for severity and we're in business thats my hunch.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.

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