Thanks for the replies folks, all very interesting. The mild climate of the UK in relation to it's latitude has long been a source of deep depression (so to speak) for me.

The thing is, is it really the ultimate depressing fact. Because the places mentioned so far in this thread (Vancouver, Seattle) are actually slightly lower in latitude than the UK. I'm just wondering whether if we take a city in the UK (say Birmingham), if there is a town,city anywhere of equal or greater latitude, that has a climate that is as mild, or milder than Birmingham, excluding Ireland because that is part of the British Isles. Or whether Birmingham is officially the mildest place at that latitude on the planet. Apologies if this is being pedantic, but it would be something of an incredible fact. I will be researching this.

---

I see you are now excluding Eire (R of Ireland).  The original question mentioned the UK; not the British Isles; and Eire is most definitely NOT part of the UK, so Valentia or Cork would be the cities that indeed are milder than many in the UK.

So in answer to your second question, the answer is an emphatic NO, there is nowhere milder; cities in Britain and Ireland at around 53 North are milder than anywhere else on the planet.  Catch my North Atlantic Drift?

WI

---

 

Hi there WI. 

I'm sorry, I didn't realise that in my initial question I was thinking of the Repulic of Ireland as well, that is the entire British Isles, not just the UK.

I just hadn't ever read or heard that cities in Britain or Eire at around 53 north, are milder than anywhere else on the globe, which is incredible.

---

In winter Birmingham is actually colder than Manchester and Glasgow which are even further north! So the prize for having the highest latitude with the mildest winters of any major City on Earth must go to Glasgow.

Looking at this another way which is the lowest latitude City with winters as cold as Birmingham?

We could be here all night!

Andy

---

I'm suprisd no one has mentioned the corollary, because the UK doesn't just have mild winters, it also has cold summers. Though to be fair its somewhat easier to find examples that are superior in this regard.

For instance the most southern parts of Chillie (same latitidue as the UK) have summer mean temps in single figures, with snowfall possible all year round - you struggle to find that ability even north of the arctic circle!

 

 

---

Yes Vancouver Island, Vancouver and Victoria BC. Night-time temperatures rarely dip below -5c and daytime (Average) in winter is around 6c. It's the similar latitude to London/Bristol etc. Summers are fairly cool at 21 or 22c (Average). It's very overcast that's the issue. If you're looking to live somewhere that has the most similar weather to the UK apart from Holland or Belgium then go to Vancouver or Victoria.

---

The problem with Birmingham is when it comes down to snowfall - being about as far inland as you get in the UK they find it difficult to get heavy or regular falls of snow which in bitter cold snaps are mostly generated by the seas around us then bands of snow move inland, they often rely on a rare 'channel low' as B'ham is just far enough south or a breakdown when rain is preceded by snow. I remember someone on Netweather saying they haven't seen more than 15-20cm in B'ham since 1991.

---

 

There's a prompt for a new thread, about how YBY fares for snow. 

I've worked in Manchester for almost 15 years now, and there's never been anywhere near 20cm of snow fallen here in that time.

 

 

---

Yes the city centre (if you work there) never seems to fare as well as the eastern and northern suburbs of the city, possibly because of the UHI effect I would imagine of the city centre. I used to work in Salford and south Manchester years ago and there was many times when there was zero snow on the ground there yet at home in Oldham there was about 4-5 inches, but there is little difference in elevation (about 30m) and a difference of only 8 miles.

Over the years what has always struck me is how weird the snow distrubution is in Greater Manchester - north of junction 24 on the M60 and it can be another world. South of that towards Stockport there can be just flurries but again there is not a massive diference in elevation. Not sure if it's topography or cold gets trapped better further north.

---

I think some of it is also due to N & E Manchester catching snow showers from the North Sea (i.e, when winds blow from between the N & E), but tending to die out as they reach S & W of the City.

Gordon Manley noted in his book 'Climate and the British Scene' in 1936 that 'Birmingham is a snowy city by British standards as much of it lies above 400 feet and is prone to snowfalls both from the east and north west'.

Birmingham is far snowier than Manchester or Glasgow although I agree with other posters that Oldham is snowier than Manchester and probably has similar days with snow lying as Edgbaston which lies at 500 feet.

I recorded over 30cms of snow lying on several occasions when I lived in Birmingham in the 1980's.

Andy

---

Yep, like I say when I used to work in Salford and sometimes south Manchester for 30+ years there were many a time when there was no snow at all in those locations but a good covering here.

This is certainly no Cairngorm haha but we do fair quite well for snowfalls. We even got a covering earlier this year on the evening of 11th Feb, but it melted by late morning the following day. Quite a few places didn't even see a flake last Winter.

---

A what if?

What if the British Isles were at the same latitude but about 30 degrees further west ie about half away between Europe and North America? How would winters be then?

The Scandinavian high and easterly would be a dead duck but would we have more snowfall chances on a westerly flow?



Take last winter and that chart above, note how cold the air is coming from Labrador, I reckon we would have seen more snow and frost than we did last winter if we were 30 degrees further west.

I reckon some of our mildest winters would have been colder and snowier if we were 30 degrees further west. The thing is how would have our colder winters faired such as 1962-63, 1978-79, 1981-82, 2009-10?

---

At our latitude, close to the windward edge of continents (based on prevailing winds) - say, 40-60 miles inland - seems like the best sort of location for getting a lot of snowfall, as cold continental air can become entrenched and then put up a good fight against attacks from milder ocean air, the 'warmth' and moisture of the latter being wrung out right over the region in question.

 

Here in the UK we are so close, yet so far, from that description. Occasionally, we get a taste of what it would be like, but unless somebody fills in the North Sea and at least blocks off the Channel from the Atlantic, we're usually going to suffer from unwanted maritime modification.

Come to think of it, just blocking off the Channel at the western end would have quite a big impact on the extent to which Channel SSTs responded to persistently high or low air temperatures. Not that we should contemplate such a thing of course - the loss of trade and tourism income would be catastrophic 

---

Indeed, for how far north the UK is we do so poorly when compared to places in the USA that are much further south. It's like New York City is as far south as Madrid and Greece, I bet a lot of people don't realise that. Whilst New York City is at the coast so sometimes the temp will be modified a bit they still get bitter temps blown in on a very cold NW wind from the interior and Canada. They also get them spectacular Nor'easters that can deliver 70cm+ of snow in 24 hours. New York City is also guaranteed nice long Summers, albeit humid at times. They get the best of both world's!

What also struck me about New York when I was there one December was how warm the sun felt even though there was some snow on the ground and the temp was below freezing. Must be because it is quite far south so a stronger sun.

---

Two other interesting and related thoughts:

1. The furthest South sea level location (in the NH) to have frequent sub zero winters and snow. I think it's South Korea: Pusan and Seoul. They are on around 35-37 degrees N, same as Casablanca, The Carolinas, Buenos Aires etc yet suffer frequent winter snow and temperatures well below freezing. Seoul Jan mean temp is -2.4C.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Seoul 

2. The hottest summers at the UK's latitude (50 degrees N +): I would hazard a guess at Aktobe or thereabouts in Western Kazakhstan. Steppe / semi desert vegetation, and summer maxes averaging 30C but often reaching above 40C. It's in that arc of very hot colours on the map stretching North East of the Caspian Sea every summer. And it's at 50N, same as London.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aktobe 

---

It's quite surprising how far south Vladivostok is in Russia - it certainly gives a impression just how huge Russia is. It is another very cold snowy city that borders China/North Korea. Certainly one of the coldest cities in the NH as far south as it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladivostok#Climate

 

 

---

 

One of my work colleagues is from Toronto. He said he went on a trip to the south of France when he was at school and was astonished to learn that Nice is the same latitude as Toronto.

 

But like I said on page 1, we in Britain live further north than the vast majority of Canadians (as most of the population of Canada lives within 100 miles or so of the US border).

---

 

Aye - the effects of living to the east of a very large very cold land mass.

 

 

---

Is Japan not in similar latitude as uk? I've seen quite a few pictures of snow they get there and seems a lot more than what we ever get. Does ceratian parts of Japan get hit off the pacific with mild horrible rainy muggy crap just like we do from the Atlantic?

Nope, Japan (not counting the disputed islands with Russia) is a good deal south compared to the UK - Sapporo in Northern Japan is as far south as Vladivostok, in fact they are located about 300 miles apart - seperated by the Sea of Japan. Both cities are as far south as the French Riveira! But still both are much colder than the UK.

---