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western100
18 November 2014 20:41:04

It's hard to see a changer in weather compared to last year. It looks by no means as wet as last year.


its still equally as mild however, the problem being there is such warm water around Alaska it will always help promote HP over there and naturally cause a trough to dig into the U.S.


That will always cause the troughs to run with the jet stream to Europe, there will never be another outcome in that set up. 


What you need in this set up is for the troughs to dig deeper south into Europe but that's not an easy thing to happen with the heights high around there anyway. 


 


 


 


Worcestershire / Warwickshire Border
100m ASL
Twitter…..@Weather4u2
Whether Idle
18 November 2014 20:41:11


Looking at the ensembles and most show above average 850 temps. A common sight since last December really, it just goes on & on.  


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_Aberdeen_ens.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_Manchester_ens.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png


 


 


Originally Posted by: Medlock Vale Weather 


Yes, the mild outlook is notable, but hardly surprising given the vast reservoir of stored heat in the atmosphere and more especially seas and oceans this autumn.  We seem to be racing headlong towards the warmest year ever, and with barely a month til the solstice too.  We might reach up to 15c this weekend in a few favoured spots and the lack of frost is remarkable.  The last frosty morning here from memory was in April 2013, last winter had one or two nights that got down to zero but warmer air moved in by dawn.


Best scenario is for the useless block to die and give way to something more mobile, and hope for a pattern reset.  IMHO I can't see anything cold developing before mid December, based on how long these blocks take to die and how long a mobile scenario can last.  I seem to remember waiting all winter last year....no doubt the OPI will come to the rescue....


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Medlock Vale Weather
18 November 2014 21:11:50


 


Yes, the mild outlook is notable, but hardly surprising given the vast reservoir of stored heat in the atmosphere and more especially seas and oceans this autumn.  We seem to be racing headlong towards the warmest year ever, and with barely a month til the solstice too.  We might reach up to 15c this weekend in a few favoured spots and the lack of frost is remarkable.  The last frosty morning here from memory was in April 2013, last winter had one or two nights that got down to zero but warmer air moved in by dawn.


Best scenario is for the useless block to die and give way to something more mobile, and hope for a pattern reset.  IMHO I can't see anything cold developing before mid December, based on how long these blocks take to die and how long a mobile scenario can last.  I seem to remember waiting all winter last year....no doubt the OPI will come to the rescue....


 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


I've noticed we seem to be having big fluctuating periods between warm & cold and they get stuck in a rut, like we had long lasting cold from Winter 2012-13 through to June 2013. With a bit of luck this current warmer phase will end soon.


Alan in Medlock Valley - Oldham's frost hollow. 103 metres above sea level.
What is a frost hollow? http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/Frost-hollow.htm 
picturesareme
18 November 2014 21:15:15

You whine about the mild based on the gfs run, but that run is hardly lacking in potential before mid December. On that subject how do you come about that prediction??


Back to that run, the operational clearly shows the high pressure that sits slap bang over us start to migrate towards Greenland. On the northern hemisphere view you can also see an area of high pressure that has been sitting over the North Pole drift towards Greenland around the same time as ours heads northwest, I would say if that had run for a few more hours we would have had that low pressure over Scandi drops south with high to our northwest and plenty if snow potential.


The ensembles also back up the potential for cold trend towards the very end, a few go very cold before the end of the run, but a lot more appear to be dipping right at the very end.


Now I accept this is all fantasy, and expect it to change... But hey nothing before mid December right??



 


Yes, the mild outlook is notable, but hardly surprising given the vast reservoir of stored heat in the atmosphere and more especially seas and oceans this autumn.  We seem to be racing headlong towards the warmest year ever, and with barely a month til the solstice too.  We might reach up to 15c this weekend in a few favoured spots and the lack of frost is remarkable.  The last frosty morning here from memory was in April 2013, last winter had one or two nights that got down to zero but warmer air moved in by dawn.


Best scenario is for the useless block to die and give way to something more mobile, and hope for a pattern reset.  IMHO I can't see anything cold developing before mid December, based on how long these blocks take to die and how long a mobile scenario can last.  I seem to remember waiting all winter last year....no doubt the OPI will come to the rescue....


 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 

picturesareme
18 November 2014 22:16:12
Sorry, I've just realised that previous post was worded a little harshly. I'm sorry, just feeling a little moody with all this rain.
Gooner
18 November 2014 22:48:26

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014111818/gfsnh-0-312.png?18


The block to the East never really gets shunted away, maybe we will always be on the edge of if throughout the winter, giving us the blocking pattern we don't really want?


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


stormbymills
18 November 2014 22:52:09


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014111818/gfsnh-0-312.png?18


The block to the East never really gets shunted away, maybe we will always be on the edge of if throughout the winter, giving us the blocking pattern we don't really want?


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


What seems interesting to me though is the HP over NE America extending slightly out into the Atlantic....

Maunder Minimum
18 November 2014 23:37:17


 


What seems interesting to me though is the HP over NE America extending slightly out into the Atlantic....


Originally Posted by: stormbymills 


The LP over Hudson is a problem and we need to see the Atlantic trough to our west digging down into mainland Europe and undercutting the High to our east - no sign of that happening in the current model output - we need the energy to go south.


New world order coming.
Quantum
19 November 2014 03:32:20

This is a representation of the sort of FI chart being produced:



Seems the atlantic really wants to pep up towards the start of December, although of course an extreme situ like this is probably not going to happen. Still no sign of any northern blocking or cold.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Brian Gaze
19 November 2014 07:57:58

Again signs this morning of the Atlantic stepping up a gear in the mid term. Some of the runs are hinting at cooler air from the west or north west which could be good news for the Scottish ski resorts. 


GFS and GFSP at 10 days are quite consistent.


 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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Polar Low
19 November 2014 08:43:01

slumping heights to our s/west


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=168&mode=0&carte=1


 


Block to the east fighting back on ecm 


yesterday



 


Today with slumping heights to our s/w 


GIBBY
19 November 2014 08:47:15

HERE IS MY LATEST ANALYSIS FROM THE OUTPUTS OF THE WEATHER COMPUTER PREDICTION MODELS FOR TWO WEEKS FROM 8AM TODAY WEDNESDAY NOVEMBER 19TH 2014.


NEXT UPDATE THURSDAY NOVEMBER 20TH 08:00


THE CURRENT GENERAL SITUATION A weakening front will kove slowly NE across England and Wales later today and tonight.


MODELS-2 WEEK HEADLINE Slowly becoming windier and more changeable next week and beyond with rain or showers and strong winds at times moving down from the NW.


THE JET STREAM ENSEMBLE FORECAST The GFS Jet Stream Ensemble forecast continues to show the large High pressure block over Europe continuing to divert the Jet Stream both North and South of the UK over the next 5-7 days. Very gradually the flow becomes more direct to lie over or near to the South or North of the UK late in Week 2.


GFS OPERATIONAL The GFS operational this morning continues to show High pressure over Eastern Europe continuing to affect the UK in one form or another over the next few weeks. For the most parts the attacks from the Atlantic are half hearted or thwarted as fronts come up against the block and while delivering some rain for all at times there will be some drier spells too with average temperatures as a result. For a period though through the start of Week 2 a more powerful Low pressure area is shown to pull SE across the UK with rain and gales for all as well as some snow on hills in the North as a temporary wedge of colder air accompanies the Low.


THE GFS PARALLEL RUN The GFS Parallel run is broadly similar to the operational this morning with much Low pressure disruption near the British Isles through Week 2 delivering a lot of rain and showers for all in temperatures turning rather chilly at times with snow on northern hills. The High pressure over NE Europe does become more favourable in position at times to deliver the chance of colder air from the East too.


THE GFS ENSEMBLES The GFS Ensembles also shares the view of the above model runs with a trend to a more deeply unsettled spell in Week 2 before it shows a rise of pressure from the SW late in the period with cold and frosty plus foggy conditions possible towards the end of the period.


UKMO UKMO today shows High pressure developing in 4-5 days across the UK with dry and bright weather with frost and fog at night the most likely scenario towards the beginning and middle of next week following some rain over the start of the weekend.


THE FAX CHARTS The Fax Charts show a complex frontal system towards the weekend becoming slow moving across SE Britain while pressure rises strongly over the North and West. Occasional rain crossing the UK looks like becoming slow moving near the SE at the weekend before the quiet, colder and perhaps frosty weather develops by the start of the new week.


GEM GEM too shows the High pressure across the UK early next week before it become displaced to the East and allows Low pressure to sink down and develop as a complex system around the UK later delivering spells of rain and showers in temperatures close to or a little below average with some snow possible on Northern hills.


NAVGEM NAVGEM this morning shows the rain at the weekend disappearing as High pressure ridges up from the SW. The rest of the run shows a mild period with basically SW winds and some rain in the NW while many others become dry and rather cloudy.


ECM ECM this morning takes the road towards a slow decline in conditions from the NW through next week and the weekend as the rain clears this weekend to give a drier and colder period with some frosts likely before cloud, wind and rain become more dominant from the NW from midweek with a wet and windy spell looking most likely by the end of the run and beyond. Temperatures look like being close to or maybe a little below average at times and some snow on Northern hills is possible at times later as a result.


THE ECM ENSEMBLES The Ensemble run continues to show an ever deepening trough aross the UK by Day 10 powered by a deep Low likely to lie somewhere close to the NW of the UK at that point with spells of wind and rain or showers as a result in average temperatures.


NOTABLE TREND CHANGES FROM PREVIOUS RUNS The trend seems to be for a slow decline in conditions across the UK towards more Atlantic driven weather under Low pressure later next week and beyond.


MY THOUGHTS Today's output continues to show a slow decline into more unsettled conditions later next week as the benign and stagnant weather of present mostly due to a High pressure block to the East recedes. The models though still show some resistance from the block to the East even then and as a result steers deep and developing Low pressure down across the UK from the NW. This of course means plenty of wind and rain at times for the UK and with some polar maritime air getting into the mix at times later temperatures would likely be average at best and perhaps a little below at times with some snow on higher elevations of the North. There is still little evidence shown of any major dip into cold weather with the most likely option shown currently that Low pressure to the NW is likely to remain dominant until at least the end of this morning's outlook period with wind and rain at times for all as a result. I will note that although this is the consensus shown this morning High pressure remains over Eastern Europe even at the extremities of the run and at some point in the future it may position itself more favourably to deliver cold to the UK on an Easterly flow but patience is going to have to be administered until later in the season and other building blocks align in better positions than shown at present.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



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Nick2373
19 November 2014 09:01:19
Morning' new on here gent's again a infomative report Gibby cheers buddy. looking forward to the next few weeks of hunting for that cold.
Polar Low
19 November 2014 09:04:38

Thanks Martin


Those fronts might even start moving west backwards from the block a s/e flow would be quite cool at this time of year as Darren explained at some length a while ago very complex situation and no clear signal as yet but little doubt ecm has also made a correction from the block to the east this morning



 

David M Porter
19 November 2014 09:31:37

New thread coming along shortly, closing this one in a few minutes.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022

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