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David M Porter
16 December 2014 14:04:19


 


1962/63 started on Boxing day I think - if only weather history could repeat itself. 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Not anything like the same scale as 1962/63 I know, but I'd personally settle for a repeat of 2012/13 myself. January 2013 saw a switch to a much drier and progressively colder pattern from the second week of the month onwards, which came after a festive season dominated by atlantic zonality. IIRC the model runs during the last few days of December 2012 were hinting that a change was on the way.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Quantum
16 December 2014 14:28:48


 


Not anything like the same scale as 1962/63 I know, but I'd personally settle for a repeat of 2012/13 myself. January 2013 saw a switch to a much drier and progressively colder pattern from the second week of the month onwards, which came after a festive season dominated by atlantic zonality. IIRC the model runs during the last few days of December 2012 were hinting that a change was on the way.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


2013 was in many ways nearly as impressive as the big years 47,63,10 e.c.t. when march and early April is taken into account imo. The CET just kept dropping through the winter, I think it finally reached a low point on the 1st of April or something insane like that. But look at it this way 2010 was big December, 2013 was big March; are we overdue for a Big January? I mean there haven't been any (real) Big Januaries in over a century,  it is possible to get monthly CETs lower than -2, when was the last time that happened! 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
David M Porter
16 December 2014 14:51:16


 


2013 was in many ways nearly as impressive as the big years 47,63,10 e.c.t. when march and early April is taken into account imo. The CET just kept dropping through the winter, I think it finally reached a low point on the 1st of April or something insane like that. But look at it this way 2010 was big December, 2013 was big March; are we overdue for a Big January? I mean there haven't been any (real) Big Januaries in over a century,  it is possible to get monthly CETs lower than -2, when was the last time that happened! 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


It didn't have a CET as low as -2 or lower, but Jan 1979 was possibly the last January that was really wintry throughout the month. We haven't had a sub-zero CET January since then, although we've had s sub-zero CET December in 2010 (first one since 1890!) and a sub-zero CET February in 1986.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
16 December 2014 15:09:33


Just put a small bet on Glasgow having a White Christmas - got 10-3 with BetFred. I must be mad.


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


 


I'd be delighted if you were correct Saint as it would probo mean a White Xmas for me......


Some encouraging signs so far today, although maybe still a bit late for that particular bet but one never knows....

Solar Cycles
16 December 2014 15:12:11


 


Not anything like the same scale as 1962/63 I know, but I'd personally settle for a repeat of 2012/13 myself. January 2013 saw a switch to a much drier and progressively colder pattern from the second week of the month onwards, which came after a festive season dominated by atlantic zonality. IIRC the model runs during the last few days of December 2012 were hinting that a change was on the way.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 

It was bobbins here Dave until  just before Easter when we saw our first fall of snow, well more of a dusting really. For me December 2010, 2009/10, January 1984 and 78/79 are the benchmark winters IMBY, the rest even January 87 were nothing to write home about.

Gooner
16 December 2014 15:25:42


Hi all,


Here's today's video update:


JMA January To March 2015


http://www.gavsweathervids.com


Some very interesting late winter signals from the Japanese and American models.


Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


Cheers Gav


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


White Meadows
16 December 2014 15:41:49
The NAO dip only looking short-lived on todays update:
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/pna/new.nao_index_ensm.html 

This is supportive of a short cold spell after Christmas, probably returning to a more zonal pattern thereafter.
Polar Low
16 December 2014 16:03:18

jan 63 is king Q


Apolgies yet again James sorry


January 1963 was the coldest month of the 20th century, and the coldest since January 1814, with an average temperature of −2.1°C.] Much of England and Wales was snow-covered throughout the month. The country started to freeze solid, with temperatures as low as −19.4 °C at Achany in Sutherland on the 11th. Freezing fog was a hazard for most of the country


In January 1963 the sea froze for 1 mile (1.6 km) out from shore at Herne Bay, Kent The sea also froze inshore in many places, removing many British inland water birds' usual last resort of finding food in estuaries and shallow sea. The sea froze 4 miles out to sea from Dunkirk, and BBC television news expressed a fear that the Strait of Dover would freeze across.[2] The upper reaches of the River Thames also froze over


Feb 63


A 36-hour blizzard caused heavy drifting snow in most parts of the country. Drifts reached 20 feet (6.1 m) in some areas and there were gale force winds reaching up to 81 mph (130 km/h). On the Isle of Man, wind speeds were recorded at 119 mph (191 km/h).


 


 


 



 


2013 was in many ways nearly as impressive as the big years 47,63,10 e.c.t. when march and early April is taken into account imo. The CET just kept dropping through the winter, I think it finally reached a low point on the 1st of April or something insane like that. But look at it this way 2010 was big December, 2013 was big March; are we overdue for a Big January? I mean there haven't been any (real) Big Januaries in over a century,  it is possible to get monthly CETs lower than -2, when was the last time that happened! 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 

Jonesy
16 December 2014 16:29:25


One run and all that but this is starting to get into semi reliable territory. The Greenland High is becoming a consistent signal despite varying options.


I'm sitting up again and paying attention.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2641.gif


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


I like it when you arrive 


GEFS slowly building a snow row http://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?ext=1&x=306&y=141&ville=Londres


Diagramme GEFS


Medway Towns (Kent)
The Weather will do what it wants, when it wants, no matter what data is thrown at it !
Rob K
16 December 2014 16:29:39

Stronger ridging out west and up to Greenland on the 12Z


 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1741.gif


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Saint Snow
16 December 2014 16:32:55


 


It didn't have a CET as low as -2 or lower, but Jan 1979 was possibly the last January that was really wintry throughout the month. We haven't had a sub-zero CET January since then, although we've had s sub-zero CET December in 2010 (first one since 1890!) and a sub-zero CET February in 1986.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


 


Jan 2010 was wintry for most of the month in these parts. The snowfall of the 4th left the deepest covering here in years. The subsequent freeze turned the snow hard, and it lasted on the ground well toward the end of the month (longest period of lying snow here since Dec 1981 IIRC)



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Rob K
16 December 2014 16:36:44

I've seen worse Xmas Day charts. http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2161.gif


 


The theme continues of a brief but sharpish cold plunge around Xmas Day/Boxing Day, then a return to mild(er) westerlies.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Polar Low
16 December 2014 16:50:35
Polar Low
16 December 2014 16:57:53

No Polar Bears please Brian white out conditions some s/eastern districts just for fun it cant happen can it ??.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=264&mode=0&runpara=1&carte=1


 

Russwirral
16 December 2014 16:58:31


Dear me look who,s coming along the Channel


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=234&mode=0&runpara=1&carte=1



Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


 



 


Just your average run of the mill snowstorm hitting us around xmas/ boxing day that is... nothing to see here.


 


Stormchaser
16 December 2014 17:00:56

 At 9 days range and beyond this is technically just for fun, but it reflects recent trends very nicely as LP is neatly into the North Sea by day 8 and LP to the SW is turned down, while the western N. Atlantic low is slower moving, allowing for a reasonable Greenland High and weak mid-Atlantic ridge:


No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.  No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.


Snow likely for the northern half of the UK on Christmas Day while Boxing Day could produce snow showers just about anywhere though The South could have to wait until evening. Taking this run at face value of course!


No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.  No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.


An interesting channel low followed by day 12/13 breakdown brought about by LP behaving quite strangely... far from convincing really.


It then finishes with what might be a nod to the ECM 12z control run of yesterday, as LP dives into Europe and the cold starts to think about coming back in from the NE or E (below-left):


No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.  No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.


Meanwhile the parallel GFS still brings through a bothersome LP from.he SW but while it delays the cold by two days, the outcome is more dramatic (above-right). The low goes on to invade Europe with the properly cold N'rly veering NE'rly and persisting to 29th December.


 


Apologies to mobile users for taking up so much space with a single GFS run well outside the reliable - I just couldn't resist as it's been so long since I got to stare at NWP output of this nature i.e. full of cold potential and some realisation from day 8 through to day 16 


 


I think the biggest development on these 12z GFS and GFSP runs is low pressure getting down into Europe in the later stages. It represents a big shift from the 'return of the extended Euro High' that kept cropping up over the past few days, and is the best way to extend the cold spell while setting up a decent pattern going into the New Year.


Definitely the highlight of the NWP watching so far this season - now will ECM trash the party? gulp


 


A quick glance at UKMO shows a day 6 setup that would go on to be closer to GFS than GFSP i.e. without the LP from the SW.


On that note, which would you rather have, GFS or GFSP? Cast your votes tongue-out


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2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Arbroath 1320
16 December 2014 17:03:06


I've seen worse Xmas Day charts. http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2161.gif


 


The theme continues of a brief but sharpish cold plunge around Xmas Day/Boxing Day, then a return to mild(er) westerlies.


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Yes, GFS has continued today with the same trend - pressure rising in the North Atlantic and Greenland driving cold air South over us. The 12z is another variation of that theme.


Interesting output but far too early to say with any certainty what's going to happen next week let alone after Christmas. We might get some transient Northerlys or something more potent. Will be fascinating to see how this unravels in the days ahead  


GGTTH
Retron
16 December 2014 17:12:24
The ECM monthly control run is a festival of cold weather today - it shows repeated cold shots due to high pressure to the west and eventually NE with 850s largely below -5C from T+360 onwards (before then there are brief cold shots). By the end of the run the UK is snow-covered with the exception of Cornwall and Devon.

The 0z 15-day control run shows a strong cold front clearing SE'wards on Boxing Day, then there are cold NNW'lies and NW'lies until the 30th. New Year's Day has a ridge over the UK.



Leysdown, north Kent
Quantum
16 December 2014 17:14:34

Things are definitely moving in the right direction now!



The Azores high looks to be almost completely displaced. There is colder air behind this too.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Polar Low
16 December 2014 17:15:03

look at that little short wave in the flow gm 26th


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=228&mode=0&carte=1


 

White Meadows
16 December 2014 17:25:23
There appears to be some continuity with the Azores high getting sucked up north to Greenland. I would imagine the behaviour of the Scandy trough plays a large part in this development.
If the models overplay the low to our NE too much, which they tend to in these circumstances then retrogression is much less likely.
kmoorman
16 December 2014 17:35:25
Perturbation 17 looks like a snow-fest down the Western side of the UK from Boxing day onwards.
Home: Durrington, Worthing, West Sussex. (16 ASL)
Work: Canary Wharf, London
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KevBrads1
16 December 2014 17:36:54
The GFS para 12z run is not far off the famous Christmas snowstorm of 1927
MANCHESTER SUMMER INDEX for 2021: 238
Timelapses, old weather forecasts and natural phenomena videos can be seen on this site
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgrSD1BwFz2feWDTydhpEhQ/playlists
Solar Cycles
16 December 2014 17:36:55

Perturbation 17 looks like a snow-fest down the Western side of the UK from Boxing day onwards.

Originally Posted by: kmoorman 

Giveme Giveme Giveme please, a pity it will look nothing like that come the day.

Jonesy
16 December 2014 17:40:23

Taps fingers and waits for someone to post a tweet from Ian F suggesting caution is needed 


Medway Towns (Kent)
The Weather will do what it wants, when it wants, no matter what data is thrown at it !

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