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Whether Idle
03 January 2015 18:07:39


 


Something is rumbling in FI, but I won't raise an eyebrow until it's into the reliable timeframe. more jam tomorrow for coldies, but worth keeping an eye on the ENS if indeed it's cold weather your after. 


Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


Wise words on this occasion


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Matty H
  • Matty H
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
03 January 2015 18:09:28

"Hope Index"...


 


 


 



Quantum
03 January 2015 18:12:48


 


And this is what you posted 5 days ago Q


How your view has changed eh?


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Not particularly, the 9th of January still looks terrible. 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
GIBBY
03 January 2015 18:17:42

Sorry guys for my absence the last few days but am in RUH hospital in Bath after developing a kidney stone over Christmas. All's well though and after a couple of days of excruciating pain I'm on the mend and should be back doing my reports within a few days. TBH though doesn't look like I have missed much. At least your all giving me something to read in my convalescence. 


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Brian Gaze
03 January 2015 18:19:35

GEFS looking quite interesting at a glance but I've not yet stepped through them:


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/datmdlout.aspx


Edit: On second thoughts I'm not overly keen on the 12z GEFS. I've written a piece on Buzz which will appear shortly.


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twoother/latest.aspx



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
sriram
03 January 2015 18:23:10


Sorry guys for my absence the last few days but am in RUH hospital in Bath after developing a kidney stone over Christmas. All's well though and after a couple of days of excruciating pain I'm on the mend and should be back doing my reports within a few days. TBH though doesn't look like I have missed much. At least your all giving me something to read in my convalescence. 


Originally Posted by: GIBBY 


Get well soon - most people reckon it's week 3 of January onwards for winter fans to look out for


Sriram
Sedgley, West Midlands ( just south of Wolverhampton )
162m ASL
JACKO4EVER
03 January 2015 18:42:58
Get well soon Gibby, I miss your input and excellent analysis.
Jacko
Matty H
  • Matty H
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
03 January 2015 18:44:11

Get well soon Gibby 


Brian Gaze
03 January 2015 18:44:17


Sorry guys for my absence the last few days but am in RUH hospital in Bath after developing a kidney stone over Christmas. All's well though and after a couple of days of excruciating pain I'm on the mend and should be back doing my reports within a few days. TBH though doesn't look like I have missed much. At least your all giving me something to read in my convalescence. 


Originally Posted by: GIBBY 


Sounds unpleasant, but I'm sure you'll soon be better. On the bright side the current weather is about as boring as it gets in the winter so you're not missing a great deal. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
JACKO4EVER
03 January 2015 18:47:47


 


There isn't much to shout about if your looking for dry mild weather either matey


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


certainly true mate, but best not to get your hopes up yet. May be good to take some lead from the MetO extended update. What's the consensus on "the other side" NW?

Whether Idle
03 January 2015 18:57:36

Meanwhile with charts like this within the reliable (just) , its looking mild and windy and wet for many.



Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Solar Cycles
03 January 2015 19:00:12


There is very good run-to-run and even cross-model consistency with the build of heights poleward from Siberia days 6-10, which suggests an unusually strong signal for it to behave in that way.


During that time, the MJO is projected by GEFS to reach phase 6 while in an amplified state, and the composite for that fits the 6-10 day trop. output very closely indeed (GFS day 8 used as an example on the right, GFSP is very similar):


  No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.


Unfortunately the MJO outlook charts aren't working properly this evening so I can't be sure what the latest from the models is.


With ECM also bearing close resemblance in the 6-10 day range lately, I can only guess that it is modelling a similar MJO progression.


 


This then brings us to a critical point, right on the edge of ECM/GFSP higher-res, when the ridge from Siberia reaches a location from which it can force a tropospheric polar vortex split:


 


No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.  No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.


(For now I have GFSP on the left and GFS on the right, I intend to swap in the ECM chart later this evening).


 


This is when the MJO phase 7 forcing seems to make itself known in the output, as we see a very 'forced' appearance to the runs days 11-16, where height rises to the west and northwest just keep on coming regardless of various low pressure systems trying to trash the party.


I'm pretty sure that this isn't strat.-forced, because the current 30hPa split doesn't appear at lower levels just before this takes place. Instead we are seeing a split driven from the troposphere.


It's apparent dependence on the MJO means we need to give this a good number of days before we can start to consider it a likely outcome. The ECM ensembles were not keen on taking it through phase 7 when I last saw the MJO output two days ago, but this may well have changed considering the way this morning's ECM control run unfolded. They did underestimate the progression back in December and perhaps this is happening again.


Perhaps.


 


In light of Solar Cycle's posts, I would like to add that the vortex looks like being quite a lot weaker for week 3 of January than it was when we went through the sequence last month, so I think any cold setup would last a little longer this time around.


If we could see further wave 2 activity during this time, that would start to bring a longer lasting cold spell into the realms of possibility. So far there are hints of it in some model runs but it's not very enthusiastic.


I'll be keeping my expectations down to a few days of cold, snowy conditions at most until if and when better wave breaking develops in the output.


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 

Agree but we still need more wave 2 activity or we'll just end up back to square one. For all the talk of SSW some other variable has overridden potential SSW events up to now and maybe we'll have to wait until February and beyond when the Stratospheric profile is more conducive for heights to build around Greenland.

snowish
03 January 2015 19:08:52


Sorry guys for my absence the last few days but am in RUH hospital in Bath after developing a kidney stone over Christmas. All's well though and after a couple of days of excruciating pain I'm on the mend and should be back doing my reports within a few days. TBH though doesn't look like I have missed much. At least your all giving me something to read in my convalescence. 


Originally Posted by: GIBBY 

Get well soon mate hopefully something ahead to get your teeth into meanwhile relax and recoverlaughing


Paul S


Paul S, Burnley
David M Porter
03 January 2015 19:13:42


Sorry guys for my absence the last few days but am in RUH hospital in Bath after developing a kidney stone over Christmas. All's well though and after a couple of days of excruciating pain I'm on the mend and should be back doing my reports within a few days. TBH though doesn't look like I have missed much. At least your all giving me something to read in my convalescence. 


Originally Posted by: GIBBY 


Get well soon, Martin.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Gooner
03 January 2015 19:20:07


Sorry guys for my absence the last few days but am in RUH hospital in Bath after developing a kidney stone over Christmas. All's well though and after a couple of days of excruciating pain I'm on the mend and should be back doing my reports within a few days. TBH though doesn't look like I have missed much. At least your all giving me something to read in my convalescence. 


Originally Posted by: GIBBY 


Ouch!


All the best for your recovery


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


cold snap
03 January 2015 19:23:15


GEFS looking quite interesting at a gloperational I've not yet stepped through them:


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/datmdlout.aspx


Edit: On second thoughts I'm not overly keen on the 12z GEFS. I've written a piece on Buzz which will appear shortly.


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twoother/latest.aspx



Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Hi Brian


have you seen the 12z GEFS for Greenland by the 17th jan the operational has the 850s above 0, and the snow runs Are low, dont think I have seen a chart like that for January


C.S


 


 

Deep Powder
03 January 2015 19:28:26

Looks a bit like 2010 dec 18th

Originally Posted by: hammer10 


Yes I thought that as well, although 2010 had far more depth to the cold, I think Steve Murr referred to it as life under the vortex!


Anyway, just got in and good to see the ensembles are picking up on a pattern change.....over the past 2 days the cold cluster has grown and subsequently the mean has come down accordingly. I hope it continues over the next few days........


Near Leatherhead 100masl (currently living in China since September 2019)
Loving the weather whatever it brings, snow, rain, wind, sun, heat, all great!
Medlock Vale Weather
03 January 2015 19:51:39


Sorry guys for my absence the last few days but am in RUH hospital in Bath after developing a kidney stone over Christmas. All's well though and after a couple of days of excruciating pain I'm on the mend and should be back doing my reports within a few days. TBH though doesn't look like I have missed much. At least your all giving me something to read in my convalescence. 


Originally Posted by: GIBBY 


Get well soon Gibby, always nice to see your unbiased views of the model output. 


Alan in Medlock Valley - Oldham's frost hollow. 103 metres above sea level.
What is a frost hollow? http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/Frost-hollow.htm 
Matty H
  • Matty H
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
03 January 2015 20:06:35


 


Get well soon Gibby, always nice to see your unbiased views of the model output. 


Originally Posted by: Medlock Vale Weather 


Thats the key. No daft acronyms, no long words, no ridiculous poet-sounding descriptions of what we might be under, no wild speculation or cherry picking - just the facts in layman's terms and easy to understand. 


Just before anyone gets the arse, I was referring to other sites around the net rather than here. 


Speedy recovery necessary. I vote we all send him a gallon of Cranberry juice. Supposed to be good for that sort of thing ;-)


doctormog
03 January 2015 20:14:11


 


Thats the key. No daft acronyms, no long words, no ridiculous poet-sounding descriptions of what we might be under, no wild speculation or cherry picking - just the facts in layman's terms and easy to understand. 


Just before anyone gets the arse, I was referring to other sites around the net rather than here. 


Speedy recovery necessary. I vote we all send him a gallon of Cranberry juice. Supposed to be good for that sort of thing ;-)


Originally Posted by: Matty H 


I'd like to second that. I hope you're feeling 100% soon (and ready to report on the impending cold spell )


White Meadows
03 January 2015 20:23:33


"Hope Index"...


 


 


 



Originally Posted by: Matty H 

Yes hope index WTF?

idj20
03 January 2015 20:25:50

Get well soon to the Gibbster, did wonder about the lack of updates by him lately. PS: Matty, I think cranberry juice is ideal for UTI or cystitis, but I'm only an amateur meteorologist, not a doctor.

Back on topic, I can't help thinking that because everyone are being focussed on that hint of pattern change in the 300 hours range, the potential stormy spell between 8th and 12th is being overlooked. Of course, even that is a long way off in forecasting terms and thus there'll be further fine tunings on the model outputs part - but nonetheless, it is now tickling the far end of the Met Office fax charts: http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/brack4.gif


Folkestone Harbour. 
Quantum
03 January 2015 20:31:13


Yes hope index WTF?


Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


It was simply the number of good pattern ensembles divided by the total. 


Just once I'll go an entire model output thread without attracting ridicule or controversy 


 


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Gooner
03 January 2015 20:33:33


 


It was simply the number of good pattern ensembles divided by the total. 


Just once I'll go an entire model output thread without attracting ridicule or controversy 


 


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 



 


I doubt that Q


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Deep Powder
03 January 2015 20:43:30


 


It was simply the number of good pattern ensembles divided by the total. 


Just once I'll go an entire model output thread without attracting ridicule or controversy 


 


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


 


Means everyone enjoys your posts! I would be worried if I was just ignored, it's good you attract attention. 😀


Near Leatherhead 100masl (currently living in China since September 2019)
Loving the weather whatever it brings, snow, rain, wind, sun, heat, all great!

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