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Quantum
30 January 2015 18:24:12

This is so annoying, the pattern is perfect for a retrogression to greenland, were it not for an insanely strong polar vortex that is set to develop. The pressure on an otherwise healthy block is just too great, and it breaks.


Damit.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
nsrobins
30 January 2015 18:30:17


This is so annoying, the pattern is perfect for a retrogression to greenland, were it not for an insanely strong polar vortex that is set to develop. The pressure on an otherwise healthy block is just too great, and it breaks.


Damit.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


It might be rubbish for you in the far NE but it's looking OK for us down here for a few days.






Interestingly the OP and control on GFS are both out on a limb with most of the ENS showing some form of easterly flow later next week. My golden rule however is when the OP and lower res control run together, there is higher confidence so I wouldn't rule any solution out from next Friday at this stage.
Plenty to get through before that though and almost for the first time this winter I'm genuinely intrigued by what next week has in store.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Quantum
30 January 2015 18:33:27


 


It might be rubbish for you in the far NE but it's looking OK for us down here for a few days.






Interestingly the OP and control on GFS are both out on a limb with most of the ENS showing some form of easterly flow later next week. My golden rule however is when the OP and lower res control run together, there is higher confidence so I wouldn't rule any solution out from next Friday at this stage.
Plenty to get through before that though and almost for the first time this winter I'm genuinely intrigued by what next week has in store.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


I can fully understand why the ensembles are still holding on, it is a completely natural solution for HP to build towards greenland and open the floodgates. With these synoptics I remember it almost always does, its just that the heights go so ridiculously low while it happens, it prevents the attempt, I mean even with the low heights the cold still endures for another 4 days! Look at this crap:



One of the strongest polar vortexes I have ever seen. I mean a normal polar vortex is fine, its so damn natural for the retrogression to happen, but this, its just too much.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Quantum
30 January 2015 18:37:34

The HP is desperate to go to greenland, you can tell at 168, but a monster polar vortex is even more determined not to let it.


Still, the balance has shifted slightly towards the HP on the 12Z vs the 0Z, not that it is likely to change anything.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
nsrobins
30 January 2015 18:39:21


 


. . .  its just too much.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Don't take it personally. It's not out to get you - really, it isn't


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Quantum
30 January 2015 18:41:59

Wow, this is JMA.



The balrog polar vortex is defeated.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Quantum
30 January 2015 18:45:28

ECM looks pretty much a stalemate, neither the polar vortex or the HP give in, the ECM solution is bitterly cold though with light winds and the minus ten line trickling through. If the ECM verifies, not much snow to speak of but some very low temps (sub zero maxima double digit minina)


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
The Beast from the East
30 January 2015 18:46:58

Shame its only the cannon fodder models and low res ens members that are building high pressure. Its not going to happen


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Arcus
30 January 2015 18:50:08


Shame its only the cannon fodder models and low res ens members that are building high pressure. Its not going to happen


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


I might well not, but at this range I really wouldn't like to make such a definite call. 


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
The Beast from the East
30 January 2015 18:50:45

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2015013012/ECM0-216.GIF?30-0


The azores ridge desperately tries to reach out to his mate for assistance. Cold uppers return to the SE corner


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
David M Porter
30 January 2015 18:52:04


Shame its only the cannon fodder models and low res ens members that are building high pressure. Its not going to happen


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


How do you know that? People we saying back in early January that there wouldn't be any cold spell this month because the models were not showing it at that time- how wrong they were.


Writing off a prolonged cold spell just because most model op and ensemble runs don't show it at the moment is unwise.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Whether Idle
30 January 2015 19:09:36


Wow, this is JMA.



The balrog polar vortex is defeated.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 



Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Whether Idle
30 January 2015 19:23:18

This morning's Indian:



This evening's Chinese:



and this evening's NAVGEM.  The lesser models go for the north easterly days 5-7....



Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Gusty
30 January 2015 19:25:06


 


How do you know that? People we saying back in early January that there wouldn't be any cold spell this month because the models were not showing it at that time- how wrong they were.


Writing off a prolonged cold spell just because most model op and ensemble runs don't show it at the moment is unwise.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Indeed David. Just take a look at the January CET predictions, most of us went way too high. When the predictions were made between 29-31st December the output was painting an atlantic dominated month right out to 384 hours.


It didn't quite turn out that way did it ? 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/stevewall69/ 



Ally Pally Snowman
30 January 2015 19:31:35

Looks like we have 6 or 7 days with snow chances for many then high pressure moves in. A rather boring end to the cold spell is the favourite at the moment.  we do get an easterly but not a very good one and short lived. Getting a good easterly these days seems to be very difficult. And getting a snowy breakdown seems a thing of the past as well.


 


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
nsrobins
30 January 2015 19:38:24


This morning's Indian:


 


This evening's Chinese:


 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Do the Thais do a model? If so we'll have an excellent choice of take-aways


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
sizzle
30 January 2015 19:38:59


Looks like we have 6 or 7 days with snow chances for many then high pressure moves in. A rather boring end to the cold spell is the favourite at the moment.  we do get an easterly but not a very good one and short lived. Getting a good easterly these days seems to be very difficult. And getting a snowy breakdown seems a thing of the past as well.


 


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

that's what it might say now.or what you might see but not guaranteed  the UKMO  don't even know what the outcome yet still time for adjustments.

Whether Idle
30 January 2015 19:51:42


 


Do the Thais do a model? If so we'll have an excellent choice of take-aways


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


I was going to post the Brazilian but there might be children viewing.


I'm just off for an Indian myself.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Nordic Snowman
30 January 2015 20:05:51

Slightly o/t but to just demonstrate a point. The Norwegian Met Office, only this morning, reported that up to 20+cm of snow is likely for SE Norway for tomorrow with more on Sunday. They have just tweeted now that changes in the prognosis means it will now be dry, with any snow (and light at that) now being confined right near the Swedish border.


I have mentioned a few times that GFS, in particular, has been very poor for this region and whilst the Norwegian Met, like the UK, will generally use ECM to determine its official forecasts, this also shows that ECM has many failings with specific details within the T+12 hour range! I think all models have handled this particular period of low heights over Scandi pretty poorly. The small disruptions to the W of Norway have also caused model headaches. At times, A NW wind was being progged and at other times, the trough was further W, pushed a little E, then back W, dropped a little S and on it went.


I certainly wouldn't look too much beyond T+96 atm.


Bjorli, Norway

Website 
Gooner
30 January 2015 20:08:25


Slightly o/t but to just demonstrate a point. The Norwegian Met Office, only this morning, reported that up to 20+cm of snow is likely for SE Norway for tomorrow with more on Sunday. They have just tweeted now that changes in the prognosis means it will now be dry, with any snow (and light at that) now being confined right near the Swedish border.


I have mentioned a few times that GFS, in particular, has been very poor for this region and whilst the Norwegian Met, like the UK, will generally use ECM to determine its official forecasts, this also shows that ECM has many failings with specific details within the T+12 hour range! I think all models have handled this particular period of low heights over Scandi pretty poorly. The small disruptions to the W of Norway have also caused model headaches. At times, A NW wind was being progged and at other times, the trough was further W, pushed a little E, then back W, dropped a little S and on it went.


I certainly wouldn't look too much beyond T+96 atm.


Originally Posted by: Nordic Snowman 


Not seen many pics from you lately Mike , gone all green has it


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Essan
30 January 2015 20:09:19


 


I was going to post the Brazilian but there might be children viewing.


I'm just off for an Indian myself.


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


 


I would post up the Swedish one, but it has taken me 3 hours to put it together, I seem to have several bits left over, and it just fell apart ...


Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
Nordic Snowman
30 January 2015 20:20:36


 


Not seen many pics from you lately Mike , gone all green has it


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


 


Pure white with lots of snow Marcus. Snow yesterday. Snow today. And 3 days ago


I tend to post the photos after some of the bigger falls - otherwise it is too boring and will just look the same... day after day, after day..


Bjorli, Norway

Website 
Ally Pally Snowman
30 January 2015 20:35:35


that's what it might say now.or what you might see but not guaranteed  the UKMO  don't even know what the outcome yet still time for adjustments.


Originally Posted by: sizzle 


 


Ecm mean similar to the Op. We are going to need some upgrades tomorrow to extend this wintry spell. 


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Quantum
30 January 2015 20:42:42


 


 


Ecm mean similar to the Op. We are going to need some upgrades tomorrow to extend this wintry spell. 


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


It is a massive upgrade on the 0Z, the ECM keeps it cold right to 240hr contrary to this morning. Okay its inversion cold by the end but its still a step forward. 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
nsrobins
30 January 2015 20:48:17


 


 


Ecm mean similar to the Op. We are going to need some upgrades tomorrow to extend this wintry spell. 


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


If the ECM is the correct solution. And that's a big if. IMO it hasn't performed too well in the 96 - 144 range these last few weeks, lurching around from one solution to the next. I know GFS does, but perceptively GFS has been more consistent.
The verification stats might say different of course.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO

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