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Whether Idle
21 November 2015 06:59:49

Classic positive NAO stuff from the ECM.  At least it will be closer to average than most of November


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Ally Pally Snowman
21 November 2015 07:35:35

Not a stereotypical vortex though huge Siberian and Artic high by day 10 reasons to be optimistic as we head into December.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recmnh2401.html


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
some faraway beach
21 November 2015 09:23:57


Not a stereotypical vortex though huge Siberian and Artic high by day 10 reasons to be optimistic as we head into December.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recmnh2401.html


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


 


Agreed. The 00z GFS also has the Siberian High poking right up towards the Pole at the same time.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=252&mode=0&carte=1


If you want to avoid a winter of mild zonality, then you couldn't ask for a more pleasing pattern on day 1 than getting the Siberian High that far north into the polar vortex.


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.
Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.
JACKO4EVER
21 November 2015 10:41:16
Mostly zonal from ECM this morning, a return to quite standard fayre after the much heralded snow event last night that to be quite honest was a damp squib in many a back yard. Tentative signs of ridging to the pole from SHP, though what that would mean for us remains anyone's guess.
Bertwhistle
21 November 2015 10:45:24

GFS 06 op showing steady pressure fall over Greenland in just over a week's time.


Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
Saint Snow
21 November 2015 10:46:50


Yes, it's the end of the run, but interesting that GFS has found a way to link the heights from Svalbard to Greenland...



Originally Posted by: pdiddy 


 


That is a thing of beautiful potential.


The GH ridging both eastwards & southwards; energy from that big low to the SW of Greenland slipping SE'wards.


 


Obviously Nov/Dec 2010 was uniquely brilliant, with all the pieces falling into place, but look at this chart from late Nov that year showing some similar characteristics. The chart posted by pdiddy isn't as good (and it's only a forecasted chart, which probably won't come off anyway), but if we do see models churning out charts like this increasingly regularly, then we could be in business.


 



 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Notty
21 November 2015 11:32:58
Gfs spotted this cold snap about two weeks ago iirc
Notty
Pontypool, 132m asl
Whether Idle
21 November 2015 19:13:05

The Azores High looking muscular and influential on the highly regarded ECM on 1st day of meteorological winter.



Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
David M Porter
21 November 2015 19:47:47


The Azores High looking muscular and influential on the highly regarded ECM on 1st day of meteorological winter.



Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


It does. At the same time though, I can't help but have one eye on what is happening in the top centre of that chart. Could that be the Siberian High attempting to ridge westwards towards the Arctic?


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Gooner
21 November 2015 20:09:22

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1921.gif


 


Cool NWlies never that far away


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Arcus
21 November 2015 20:11:29


 


It does. At the same time though, I can't help but have one eye on what is happening in the top centre of that chart. Could that be the Siberian High attempting to ridge westwards towards the Arctic?


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Taken in isolation that chart looks mush, but looking at previous frames of the same model run and other model runs I think there's a decent level of interest in the output tonight if it's cold you're after. Trends, trends, and all that.


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
nsrobins
21 November 2015 20:21:48


 


Taken in isolation that chart looks mush, but looking at previous frames of the same model run and other model runs I think there's a decent level of interest in the output tonight if it's cold you're after. Trends, trends, and all that.


Originally Posted by: Arcus 


Even with my cynic's eye I have to agree. Over the last few days the Eurasian block has become much more of a feature, and it does what it's name implies - blocks the usual passage of atlantic systems from steam-rolling their way into Russia.
All the time this is happening, as well as pooling of deep cold over Russia, the possibility of a switch to a more westerly biased HLB set-up is on the table.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Saint Snow
21 November 2015 20:25:48


 


Even with my cynic's eye I have to agree. Over the last few days the Eurasian block has become much more of a feature, and it does what it's name implies - blocks the usual passage of atlantic systems from steam-rolling their way into Russia.
All the time this is happening, as well as pooling of deep cold over Russia, the possibility of a switch to a more westerly biased HLB set-up is on the table.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


 


The potential fly-in-the-ointment is, as ever, the spectre of a big fat Azores High ridging into mainland Europe, creating, with the Eurasian block, a de facto cul de sac for those pesky atlantic lows, which then just sit their evil asses over good ol' Blighty.



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Arcus
21 November 2015 20:42:42


 


 


The potential fly-in-the-ointment is, as ever, the spectre of a big fat Azores High ridging into mainland Europe, creating, with the Eurasian block, a de facto cul de sac for those pesky atlantic lows, which then just sit their evil asses over good ol' Blighty.


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


I would agree, but it seems to me that it's a mobile Euro-slug that wouldn't take much salt to shift it either NW into a GH scenario, or a mushy nose into Scandi.


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
Whether Idle
22 November 2015 07:52:07

This morning the ECM at day 9 shows a robust  High to our south ridging into Iberia.  Strong WSW flow and a  low towards Iceland.  Classic NAO+ve winter chart.  Good for the offshore wind energy supply.  Edit - The Kazakhstan high of little help to us.



 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
some faraway beach
22 November 2015 10:11:28

Same chart looks different from the polar view. Both the Siberian and Alaskan Highs ridging well to the north in the direction of the shallow high already situated close to the Pole. Nothing like a write-off going forward.


 


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.
Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.
Andy Woodcock
22 November 2015 10:23:27
That ECM is classic Bartlett and one ugly bugger at that.

Let's hope ECM has it wrong.

Andy
Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
JACKO4EVER
22 November 2015 11:07:40
Very zonal this morning from ECM, though perhaps not as mild as early November. With bouts of wind and rain all in all pretty standard stuff really
pdiddy
22 November 2015 11:14:54

I must admit I'm confused this morning.  In the face of Met Office updates to the contrary, EC32 reports, ENSO signals etc etc etc, we have had a cold shot and an attempt at Greenie high this weekend.


We now see signs of the SH edging towards Svalbard, Arctic and Greenland on various runs, with a general trend of HP to the NE.  Of course, if one looks at UK in isolation, you can see a "zonal pattern" of westerly or NW winds over the next week, with lots of wind and rain probable.


However, I have seen no Bartlett (just an Azores High); no massive build up of low heights in Greenland (just the vortex moving around over the past few weeks)  and no reason not to think that opportunities exist for a cold outcome in due course.


What is it that I am missing?

GIBBY
22 November 2015 11:18:56

I admire all the optimism and talk about Siberian High pressure and Synoptics over the pole etc but it matters not a jot to the UK as long as we keep heights to the SW and South of the UK as is predicted in the next few weeks. It's blighted many a winter past and so far looks like carrying on tradition for the start of this season too. See how it's seen off what looked a promising cold spell currently to no more than a two day wonder.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Chunky Pea
22 November 2015 12:37:50

That ECM is classic Bartlett and one ugly bugger at that.

Let's hope ECM has it wrong.

Andy

Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


 


Interestingly (or not) the EC mean beyond day ten is now toying with high pressure ridging into Western Europe once again.


 


To me, the N Atlantic jet just seems to have real trouble getting going in a proper fashion this Autumn so far. Beefs up for a couple of days before flabbing out into insipidity afterwards. In other words, a very boring pattern


 


 


Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
Charmhills
22 November 2015 12:58:45


This morning the ECM at day 9 shows a robust  High to our south ridging into Iberia.  Strong WSW flow and a  low towards Iceland.  Classic NAO+ve winter chart.  Good for the offshore wind energy supply.  Edit - The Kazakhstan high of little help to us.



 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Oh that's good!


Lets hope they get smashed to pieces like some where back in that stormy winter of 13/14 to proof how unless they really are.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
doctormog
22 November 2015 13:33:52
To be honest the outlook has "typical November" written all over it it IMO. Mostly westerly with alternating mild, average and occasional cool spells of weather and generally very mobile. Not relentlessly mild but never overly cold (unless you're up a mountain!)

Re. this weekend's cold snap, in terms of longevity, it was only ever consistently shown to last a couple of days and delivers pretty much what could be expected. I would be surprised to see a slightly less cold version or two between milder S/SWlies in the next week or two (with snow restricted to high ground in the north). Beyond then, who knows.

In summary, nothing extreme on the horizon - based on current output. That could all change quickly of course.
Whether Idle
22 November 2015 13:48:08

6z GFS  @192 hrs pretty much identical to 0z ECM in same period.  I'm pleased it is not December 22nd  and these charts are forecast for early January as the zonal flow looks nailed on, albeit with the odd cool Pm incursion, for the foreseeable.


In 4 weeks time we will be at the solstice and slowly but surely the days will lengthen, that is always a huge positive for me,


regardless of the weather



Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
John p
22 November 2015 14:19:52

Some kneejerk / borderline trolling posts in here today based on he ECM.
Maybe worth looking at the ensembles and realise it's a ludicrous mild outlier?



Camberley, Surrey

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