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roger63
21 December 2015 15:11:58


I find the ENS means and anomalies very useful for seeing which way the winds are blowing in the NWP, rather than taking them literally.


A general trend to lower pressure unsettled Atlantic weather affecting us in the models today with any potential easterly now looking an extreme long shot.


Looks like a lot more rain to come so more flooding issues unfortunately. 



Originally Posted by: Fothergill 


Agree about potential easterly now being a longer shot.06 H GEFS ens shows swing to zonal majority 60:40 at 192h and 240h.More anticyclonic at 360h  but not many in a favorable position.

Hungry Tiger
21 December 2015 15:39:03


It seems we're on course to lose the shortwave battle days 5-7 which is a shame. If so, the next question is to what extent high heights can hold on somewhere over western Eurasia and how far poleward - the more so, the better for interfering with the vortex.


I've long been of the mindset that breaking away from a generally zonal pattern will take until at least mid-Jan and to be honest this now looks to be at the optimistic end of the scale. Before then it looks like polar maritime air from the northwest may be the only real candidate for bringing the temps down significantly - and I wouldn't be surprised to see that idea scuppered by LP development to the SW nearer the time.


 


So... not much to get excited about at the moment aside from the pretty much inevitable December temp records for E&W (inc. CET).


Worth pointing out, though, that ECM's 00z op produced for day 8 what may be the most intense non-tropical low I've ever seen in terms of the pressure gradient and compact nature of the storm:


No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.


At the 850 hpa level for that time it shows sustained wind speeds of around 130 mph so near the surface it could be more than 70 mph on the SE side with gusts to over 100.


It seems unlikely that the extreme temp. gradient (+5*C to -5*C in the space of barely 100 miles at the 850 hpa level) will manage to be exploited to that extent - but not impossible! Of course even if it is the low has a good chance of staying west of the UK - but I imagine the Irish will be watching the potential closely.


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


That chart is scary - I didn't know what I was looking at for a moment. Needs following carefully.


 


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Maunder Minimum
21 December 2015 16:05:17

For what it is worth, the 12z looks more promising than the 06z at the same stage (108):


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2015122112/gfsnh-0-108.png?12


Nope - no good, the slug is immovable. What utter rubbish!


New world order coming.
springsunshine
21 December 2015 16:07:09


Without changes to the PV profile and/or lowering  of heights over Europe this is always going to be the outcome. The trouble is how long will it take for the next opportunity to come along.


Originally Posted by: Solar Cycles 


Winter 2016/17

Maunder Minimum
21 December 2015 16:13:12


 


Winter 2016/17


Originally Posted by: springsunshine 


I think you are right, even though you post in jest - the next solar minimum will be underway by then and ENSO should be neutral (but knowing our luck a raging La Nina will then scupper our chances).


 On the other hand, all that mild muck shooting up on our West, may give a better chance on this run:


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2015122112/gfsnh-0-156.png?12?12


 Could it pump up a Scandi HP for us down the line?


New world order coming.
Whether Idle
21 December 2015 16:20:52

WAA ok at this stage:162 hrs



 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
warrenb
21 December 2015 16:25:13
Yep, after this mornings hiccup it looks like we are back on the rollercoster. UKMO looks good at 144 as well
Gooner
21 December 2015 16:26:16


 


I think you are right, even though you post in jest - the next solar minimum will be underway by then and ENSO should be neutral (but knowing our luck a raging La Nina will then scupper our chances).


 On the other hand, all that mild muck shooting up on our West, may give a better chance on this run:


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2015122112/gfsnh-0-156.png?12?12


 Could it pump up a Scandi HP for us down the line?


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Sadly I agree, though I still live in hope , not by any means throwing any towel in


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gusty
21 December 2015 16:27:14

Tasty WAA on this run.



Steve - Folkestone, Kent
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Whether Idle
21 December 2015 16:28:20

A wall of HP from the Arctic to Africa - prefect for s-N WAA: need the Arctic bit to survive jet attack as long as poss



Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Gooner
21 December 2015 16:29:01


Look at that weather bomb to our West-----------stay away


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


warrenb
21 December 2015 16:29:58
GFS at 192 is almost carbon copy of the ECM including the super low. Interesting.
Maunder Minimum
21 December 2015 16:32:22

GFS at 192 is almost carbon copy of the ECM including the super low. Interesting.

Originally Posted by: warrenb 


If the slug to our south could now die, we would be beautifully set up for a Scandi HP to start controlling our weather.


So the question has to be whether the heights over Europe can be diminished by a simultaneous attack from east and west.


 


New world order coming.
Gusty
21 December 2015 16:33:46

Beautiful WAA on this run at 198. The resultant balloon of high pressure is in the right place but too narrow. There appears to be some interaction with the Arctic High. At this stage the atlantic influence appears too close and the block too far east. We shall see.



Steve - Folkestone, Kent
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https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
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Gusty
21 December 2015 16:38:07

PV retrogressing and skulking off NW'wards towards Greenland at 216. High Pressure inflating over northen Scandinavia. Good potential but I think we need an undercut of energy to lower hrights in Europe.



Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
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Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
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Maunder Minimum
21 December 2015 16:38:32


Beautiful WAA on this run at 198. The resultant balloon of high pressure is in the right place but too narrow. There appears to be some interaction with the Arctic High. At this stage the atlantic influence appears too close and the block too far east. We shall see.


 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


Well the Vortex gets split on this run, with half over the Canadian Artic and the other half over Siberia.


Useless for the UK, but interesting nonetheless:


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2015122112/gfsnh-1-216.png?12?12


 


New world order coming.
Rob K
21 December 2015 16:53:07

PV rapidly regroups and everything flattens out again on this run. Perhaps a symptom of the transition to low-res (he said optimistically)...


 


edit, then again, maybe it is having another crack at propping up the Scandi high at 324...


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
warrenb
21 December 2015 16:56:24
I think it is defeat grabbed from the jaws of victory on this occasion.
Phil G
21 December 2015 17:03:11
Looks like a mega battle setting up between low pressure to the west and high pressure to east, with us more or less in the middle.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3601.gif 




Gusty
21 December 2015 17:06:14

All in all an encouraging 12z GFS run with an impressive build in pressure over NE Scandinavia with an Arctic extension. There is favourable WAA to a decent latitude again tonight that is pleasing to see. The atlantic is a powerhouse though and keeps potential out to our east meaning the UK stays unsettled and mild throughout. Another good effort though and the sort of evolution that could easily be added to the 'where did that easterly come from' archives. .


 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
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David M Porter
21 December 2015 17:07:42

Looks like a mega battle setting up between low pressure to the west and high pressure to east, with us more or less in the middle.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3601.gif




Originally Posted by: Phil G 


If the Polar Vortex would just weaken sufficiently and the jet would quieten down, we could see a notable change in the weather with HP building over Scandi as shown.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Rob K
21 December 2015 17:09:53

Looks like a mega battle setting up between low pressure to the west and high pressure to east, with us more or less in the middle.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3601.gif




Originally Posted by: Phil G 


Yes, looks like a stalemate, with the net result being stuck under cool northwesterlies. To be honest, 6C and rain is a far less appealing prospect than 16C and rain!


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Phil G
21 December 2015 17:11:16


All in all an encouraging 12z GFS run with an impressive build in pressure over NE Scandinavia with an Arctic extension. There is favourable WAA to a decent latitude again tonight that is pleasing to see. The atlantic is a powerhouse though and keeps potential out to our east meaning the UK stays unsettled and mild throughout. Another good effort though and the sort of evolution that could easily be added to the 'where did that easterly come from' archives. .


 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


Yes charts looking better Steve.


A big change on the 12z and could see that massive block forecast shunt westwards with each run killing off the Atlantic influence from our shores.


 

Robertski
21 December 2015 17:12:19


 


Yes, looks like a stalemate, with the net result being stuck under cool northwesterlies. To be honest, 6C and rain is a far less appealing prospect than 16C and rain!


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


 


Nah, its 10C nearer to snow

Hippydave
21 December 2015 17:19:23

Not an unexpected 12z GFS imo - this mornings runs still had a handful of members with easterly based blocks, albeit varying influence over the UK.


I'd guess the ens will show this being a minority option as per last few days runs - so still a low percentage chance of a change, if the cards fall our way and/or the strength of the Atlantic is being over modelled 


Or to put it another way, mild and unsettled remains favourite for now


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